Increasing overall skating speed

[Mark]

Is there any particular technique to use to help increase overall speed, or is it more a by-product of continuous training?

[mvirtue]

Getting better technique is always necessary. The other thing you need to do is to incorporate interval training into your workout. If you train at a constant pace you will stay at that constant pace. Plyometrics don't hurt either.

If you have not picked up Barry Publow's book, I'd highly recommend that you do so.

If you have speed teams in your area (indoor or outdoor) I'd recommend that you contact them. (d'oh I just looked at where you are and yes, there are speed teams and there is a large Florida contingent on this board).

[Clemens]

... or is it more a by-product of continuous training?
It's a by-product of continuously training the right thing at the right time. A lot of articles and threads have been written about it. But of course continous training in the sense that you need to build a base of endurance, technique, power, flexibility, body feeling etc. to be fast is needed, too.
My totally non-scientific approach, which cannot be found this clear in the books:

There is no speed without fun.

Translation: If you have no fun in working hard and investing the time (i.e. de-investing it from other things/activities/persons) for receiving a higher speed, than there is no sense in trying to become faster.
Apart from this selfmade pseudo-philosophical approach, the best way to become faster is to look for and find a good trainer, who finds out where you can improve the most and knows the tricks how.
My advice therefore: Don't go for books, go for people.

Speedy regards
Clemens

[Ken Roberts]

Is there any particular technique to use to help increase overall speed

There's lots of techniques and strategies for speed. (one is "Always skate downhill")

Which ones are best for you depends on what your goals are, what your history is, what your body is, and what your mind is.

How about start with Goals . . . here's some ideas:

go fast in this race coming up in April.
go faster than this guy I see on the bicycle path every Saturday.
not get dropped by the group when we go up a hill.
just so I know how I can "turn up the speed" when I want to.


Ken

[online inline]

Mark, this is a big topic. Let's give it a name: "Speed skating".

you ask how to increase overall speed. I think everyone infers you mean how to increase your pace as opposed to your endurance. Becuase if you're asking how to shave a minute or two or ten off your marathon time, the answer is very different.

A lot will depend on where you are in your develpment. First thing to look at is your form and technique. Then your conditioning could help. Also euqipment. It all depends where you are on this road.

Without making a lot of lucky guesses about where you are and what you're after, everything comes into play in increasing your overall speed. You should be also increasing your stamina, your strength, your technique, selecting equipment that will maximize your progress and your strengths and your ability to achieve your aim. By doing all these things together, you will increase your speed, as well as other things.

I know how i stretch my envelope in the area of faster speeds, but it is part of a very regimented program that is also stretching the other areas i have already mentioned. And i would be amiss to say that my strategy a year ago was the same as it is now, becuase where you are in your development of a skater should very much change what your focus is at any given time.

I bet this isn't the answer you wanted to hear. Maybe someone else will stumble onto it for you. LOL.

[BWI-Sheldon]

Translated in english;

Better equipment = speed
Improve physical condition = speed
Increase muscle = speed
Work on your stroke = speed

Dedication, Work, and Time, and you will see results.

[Mark]

So basicly, when Jessica gets back on the road, try to keep up with her when she puts it in high gear :D . That and I am sure i need to work on my technique. Right now I am still in a fitness style skate , have not researched much yet about buying speed skates. I do all of my skating outdoors. Thanks for the info.

[online inline]

yes, skating with more experienced skaters and trying to keep up will yield you results. Ask for advice and gleen what you can from their technique.

based on your response, i'd recommend that your goal may also be to skate more efficiently, or skate with better form, in addition to just skating faster. There's many ways to skate faster that yield results for a short time but will soon tire you out and develop bad habits that will ultimately hurt you.

One goal i had early on was to be able to skate a marathon more pain-free. In retrospect, i can't believe what a good goal this was. I was acknoledging to myself that i could actually deliver a not all together bad marathon time, but i was having to go through excrutianting efforts and pain to do so. So, within a week of stating this goal to myself, i resolved to complete three tasks:
1) take a lesson(s) from an elite speed skater
2) work on core strength and conditioning to alleviate back issues
3) improve my technique so i could sustain my efforts longer.
And i can tell you that this strategy worked wonderfully.

So, as an answer, yes it is a by-product of overall training. And it is the result of some particular technique, to use your words. The particular technique would be intervals. But let me first say that intervals should be part of an overall training strategy that also includes endurance training, technique drills, etc. It is not done to the exclusion of these other things, but as part of the whole program.

Intervals in its simplest form are just very high intensity skating for a given duration. The duration may be based on a distance, a time, or at achieving a set heart rate zone. A timed interval workout in its simplest form that my skate partners and i sometimes do is just 30 seconds of sprint, followed by 2 minutes of slow skating recovery, and repeat. Do say 5 to ten of these as part of your workout.

This is just one aspect of a training program. But it;s focus is in increasing your high end speed and/'or your anearobic threshhold. if done incorrectly, it can make you slower ultimately, so i don't think it should be done to the exclusion of other, more important things like learning good technique in sprinting, for example.

There are parts of a complete training program that are geared to increasing overall speed. They won't really yield the desired results unless your doing the rest of the program, though. That's about as clear as i can make it.

[Ken Roberts]

Yes the single most effective step is to take an outdoor lesson from a speedskating coach. (the problem with indoors is that speed indoors inevitably gets involved with cross-overs).

If you haven't had any serious speed technique work before, then there's probably some big easy (and fun) gains to be had from working on that.

Intervals: Yes, if you haven't done them before there are some big easy (not fun) short-term gains. Since your goal is "keeping up", rather than pack-racing sprints, you likely want to focus more on longer intervals, like a pace you can keep up for a 20-30 minute personal time-trial, which is around your "threshold" of sustainable aerobic power (rather than your short-term max power for less than 5 minutes). Lance Armstrong's coach said that his training focused lots on "threshold" work.

Technique: No explanation in words can substitute for face-to-face lessons and/or skating behind another good skater. But here's some hints about where the big gains come from:

Most people instinctively assume that skating is sorta like running only with the push aimed more diagonally.
Actually skates have the magical ability to transmute pushing out sideways into forward-motion power. So a key step is to learn what that feels like.
The true test of the "magic" is to feel like you're "slicing" the skate forward as you push, but that push is somehow also moving you forward.
The next key is to set down the skate much closer in underneath the hip, out start the sideways push outward from there -- which requires another new kind of balance and feel.
Pushing from underneath requires engaging a whole other set of muscles on the outside of the leg -- non-intuitive muscles that aren't used much in running or bicycling.

So the theory behind the big speed gain thru technique: Engage more muscles to help push, and use them to push thru a longer distance.

Ken

[dmoore]

Is there any particular technique to use to help increase overall speed, or is it more a by-product of continuous training?

Hey Mark,
I’m guessing by your location that you are the same Mark that joined us on the last group skate at the Withlacoochee State trail. If so, I believe we are fairly close to the same level of skating. As we look for ways to improve our technique and ultimate speed, I think one of the most important things to focus on is form. I have to frequently remind myself to stay down, keep the knees bent to allow for a better push and power transfer. After holding the form for several miles, I revert to the stand up skating position as I begin to tire and lose the full push and speed. This sounds so obvious, but I think it’s what many of us mid-level skaters struggle with. I used to skate ~ twice a week and realized that alone wasn’t going to cut it. Since the weather permits it, I’ve tried to get out for a few extra after work skates to improve the stamina. I’ve also started indoor sessions to help improve technique and basically spend more time on the skates. So far I’ve been to ~ 4 and plan to keep going as the schedule permits.

Every Sunday @ 8AM a group from this speed team and others do the Suncoast trail – park at Rt. 54 and turn around at Rt. 52 ~ 20 miles total. I went today for the first time and had a blast. Feel free to join the group – and this includes any interested locals. I’m sure you'll gain some experience from these outings.

[Jessica]

Dennis - which team? Emerald Coast?

[dmoore]

Dennis - which team? Emerald Coast?

We skate at SpinNations on Congress St, Port Richey - coach Steve Pyles. The floor is very nice & large. I believe the team is Paramount, but I've seen several team suits from F.A.S.T. and Stardust - probably just visiting. The group is very supportive and encouraging to me as a newbee to indoor skating.

Glad to see you're fingers are in good working order. It won't be long till we see you back on the trails, but don't rush it. Once you get that cast off and feel up to it, give me a shout.

[Mark]

Yes Dennis, it me. Thinking about it, another part of my question I should of origionally asked, what is a good overall average speed for someone just out skating for fitness? Right now I figure I am probably averaging around 12-13mph solo. I will try to make it up there next sunday for the skate.

[Jessica]

We skate at SpinNations on Congress St, Port Richey - coach Steve Pyles. The floor is very nice & large. I believe the team is Paramount, but I've seen several team suits from F.A.S.T. and Stardust - probably just visiting. The group is very supportive and encouraging to me as a newbee to indoor skating.

Glad to see you're fingers are in good working order. It won't be long till we see you back on the trails, but don't rush it. Once you get that cast off and feel up to it, give me a shout.

Yup, I did indoor with Steve - tell him I said hi :) I'll have to come out with you all next month.

[dmoore]

Yes Dennis, it me. Thinking about it, another part of my question I should of origionally asked, what is a good overall average speed for someone just out skating for fitness? Right now I figure I am probably averaging around 12-13mph solo. I will try to make it up there next sunday for the skate.

Mark - until you get some replies, scan through the training log thread to view some of the posts that list time/distances/etc. Jon B. would often include his current setup which helps to get a benchmark. I'd suspect some of the more elite skaters are averaging 20-25mph solo, but they are way too modest to share their times with us.:p

I'm averaging about 14-15mph (solo) now that I've been in the speed skates for a few months and continue to feel some improvement. Part of my problem is the pattern of stopping around 5-6 miles for a water break. My wife (on her bike) and I have points where we break and its tough to break the pattern, especially on a hot day. See you soon.

Jessica: great to see you back on the bike. I knew there was no holding you down.:)

[online inline]

Yes Dennis, it me. Thinking about it, another part of my question I should of origionally asked, what is a good overall average speed for someone just out skating for fitness? Right now I figure I am probably averaging around 12-13mph solo. I will try to make it up there next sunday for the skate.
there's no good speed. Or better yet, there's no bad speed. It trully is dependent on the terrain, your level of experience, your gear, distance skated, etc. That's not what you want to hear.

So let's talk the range - begineers get on here and talk about 8 MPH. 15MPH seems to be a benchmark, with a lot of fitness/sped skaters just below and a fair number at 15-18. Skating in excess of 18MPH on average for at least a mile or two at a time is a good cruise speed for a competetive speed skater. Twenty MPH is in the range of good race pace, and the elite skaters can often cruise at about 22 or 23 MPH with the help of drafting, with speeds of 25MPH clocked by winners of marathons.

If someone said i clocked XMPH on my GPS, take it with a grain of salt, becuase it may be inaccurate and it may be that they hit that speed only for a brief few seconds. I am talking average speeds clocked on a stopwatch.

That's what you probably want to hear, but what you need to know is that speeds matter most of all in relation to your training and progress. Terrains are never the same, breezes change, temp. changes, etc., so i would encourage you to periodically time yourself and work to improve your skating abilities so that your time improves as well. Measure time against yours previous times. I do this constantly. But i have a training program focused on building the tools, strength, physical reserves, technique, mental fortitude, top end speed, endurance, and confidence to make that happen. So even a day in which i painstakingly do hundreds of crunches, or sweat it out on the stationary bike in the gym, or due long steady distance (LSD), are days i am excited becuase i know i am loading up the scales in my favor to improve my speed, when i have the chance to test it next. You might ask if i'm trying to skate faster, or improve my skating overall, or skate more efficiently, or place better in races.... I don't know. I tend to think they are the same thing.

[dmoore]

O/I,
Thanks for the good feedback. We knew we could count on you.:D

[online inline]

Thanks. Heading out the door right now to work on increasing overall speed.

[streetsk8r]

I always skate solo outdoors and seem stuck at the 12-14 range with wind being the biggest variable. I go my overall elapsed time over the known distances for my different tracks and don't subtract waiting at stoplights. My terrain is always the same in South Florida - there is a slight rise in the middle of my skate so the elevation changes from 8 feet above sea level to 9 feet, but I hardly notice it :-).

I've never had any lessons but have watched some folks at Disney and the Publix races. I get the feeling I am plodding instead of gliding when comparing myself to the other racers. I have started doing some interval training - fifty hard - twenty easy - fifty hard -just to see if it helps.

Next Publix race is in July, so that will be a good time to see if it helps. My goal is 25 minutes.

[evilzzz]

This is the sort of thread that could run forever and ever :)

Increasing speed is mainly about increasing efficiency, which means working on technique. Then fitness comes into play, then thirdly equipment.
The "fastest" skaters are those with the most efficient stride who waste the least energy when skating, enabling them to go faster than a less efficient skater for the same energy output, or maintain the same speed while requiring less work input.

The best thing you can do for improving your speed is to practice drills. Concentrate on just one thing at a time. eg, focussing on heel carve, bringing your knees together, D-shaped recovery, minimal upper body movement, pushing through your 3rd wheel, etc.

Practice at a speed that you can comfortably maintain - the idea is to train your neuromuscular system, not your cardiovascular system, so be as precise with each stride as you can. Just about every skater wants to be able to skate faster, not just those with speedskates and lycra.

I am not a speedskater. I am not particularly fast compared to some skaters I know, but I do try work on these sort of things which I think help not only my efficiency, but my overall skating as well.

[chuckboucher]

I always skate solo outdoors and seem stuck at the 12-14 range with wind being the biggest variable.One thing to help this is to make yourself as small and aerodynamic as possible. The flatter you can get your back, the better. The lower you can get yourself, the longer you can extend your strides.

[streetsk8r]

I try to stay down but my Sunday bike lane skate really limits this. The size of the bike lane and debris limit the length of my strides. My Saturday and week day skate locations provide more room and less debris. The downside is that I have to go in the car to get there or travel a much less desirable route that includes about a half mile of sidewalk with low hanging trees.

I do find that the wide pavement provides a much easier skate. As a solo skate, I try to stay low but not sure how flat my back really is. Wind is an issue through, when you get a steady 12 to 15 knots in your face it can be tough. It always seem that it blows much lighter when it's behind you than in your face :-)

[Bryan]

Wind is an issue through, when you get a steady 12 to 15 knots in your face it can be tough. It always seem that it blows much lighter when it's behind you than in your face :-)

Glad to hear that's not just a localized phenomenon. I was starting to wonder...

[dcuper1]

Nice topic, great thread!

I have done some sailing and the wind always seems stronger when it is coming on an angle to the boat than when it is coming staightly from behind the boat.

One of the reasons is that if a wind is coming straight at you at 15 mph you are feeling the 15 mph pounding on you, plus you are going foward and hitting against the wind. If the wind is coming from behind you at 15 mph you are also going foward let's say at 10 mph. Then you would only feel about 5 mph of wind.

Regards,
Daniel

[streetsk8r]

I worked foredeck for twenty years on an old '66 Cal 40 racing around South Florida and the Bahamas until the owner retired and moved to Georgia.

I have always thought that the feeling on skates is similar to a boat on the ocean. Wind and balance a key factor in both sports. The big difference in sailing is you get to take a break on long runs. No such luck while solo skating. The chaos of a spinnaker jib is a lot like rolling through an eight lane intersection in the bike lane!

[BWI-Sheldon]

I've said this before, and I'm sure others would agree.

I'd rather climb a hill slower with the wind on my back, than have to fight a headwind downhill going a little faster.

It just feel that I am skating better with a little help.

[LezSk8]

StreetSk8r, Do you every skate at Brian Pichilo Park? That would be a great place to learn skating faster.

LezSk8! :)

[Pepper Montana]

I worked foredeck for twenty years on an old '66 Cal 40 racing around South Florida and the Bahamas until the owner retired and moved to Georgia.

I have always thought that the feeling on skates is similar to a boat on the ocean. Wind and balance a key factor in both sports. The big difference in sailing is you get to take a break on long runs. No such luck while solo skating. The chaos of a spinnaker jib is a lot like rolling through an eight lane intersection in the bike lane!

I know just what you mean. I have had the same feeling about sailing being similar to skating somehow. When everything is tuned just right you feel an immense satisfaction and pleasure. Nice post. I'm going to have to google '66 Cal 40 to see what that is.

[streetsk8r]

LezSk8

I've skated past Piccolo park on Sheridan Street a number of times but only gone once into the velodrome - about six years ago. I was not very serious about skating but it was not much fun. They would not let me on the high banked track - only the little track. It was like the ad on TV for Garmin (I think) - left turn in 200 yards, left turn in 200 yards, etc. I don't know how to cross on inlines and was never very good at it on ice skates. Too much like a hamster round and round.

I generally stay on Griffin with the bike lane to the Turnpike and Flamingo north of Orange on the frontage road to I-595. Once in a while I will go west on Sheridan out to I-75 on the sidewalk. With no bike lanes on Sheridan or Flamingo it is just too dangerous on those roads.

[streetsk8r]

Pepper

Cal 40s were all the rage for the Transpac races from LA to Honolulu in the mid to late 60s as they were heavy ocean sloops. They are beautiful old boats with a spinnaker pole that can leave a good dent in your head and wood and glass four inches thick at the keel. They are comfortable and great in the ocean. But sailing (a lot like skating) is in decline (there's another thread on that subject). People want to jump on a boat and go fast without any practice or knowledge. Instant gratification.

There are lots of pictures online of Cals.

[streetsk8r]

To get back to the original topic - sorry about the tangent - I actually skated in a draft line for the first time this past weekend. Now that is a way to increase your overall speed.

Watching the Tour de France they talked about the "accordion" effect towards the back of the peleton. Now I know what they are talking about, when you fall behind a little bit it really takes a lot of effort to get back onto the line. In the last mile I fell to the back and out of the line and just could not accelerate enough to get back in line. Once out of the draft, there was no way for me to catch back up. Is the only way just to dig down to catch up or is there some other trick?

[The Major]

A couple things to do. Practice going fast downhill. Not coasting, but skating. Gradually do this on a steeper gradient. It will help you get used to what it feels like to skate fast. Also, pacing behind a bike that's there for the purpose of helping you ( as opposed to some guy on bike you happened across). They can maintain a higher speed than you're used to going but you'll have the benifit of the draft. Most important is interval training. Start with 45 seconds to a 1 minute of skating as hard as you can for that distance, meaning you should be able to maintain you speed for the entire interval. This will be a pace much faster than you are capable of skating long term. Rest for about 2-3 minutes skating at an easy pace where you don't feel you're exerting yourself at all. Repeat this 8 to 10 times.
After a few workouts of this, increase your interval time by 15-30 seconds. Make sure you slow down during the rest phase. You can skate and skate, and keep increasing your distance, but you'll never get faster unless you do intervals and speed work. To skate faster, you have to skate faster. Hope this helps.

[Bryan]

Once out of the draft, there was no way for me to catch back up. Is the only way just to dig down to catch up or is there some other trick?

Have you tried yelling "Hey guys, slow down!"?

[Birgit]

Every Sunday @ 8AM a group from this speed team and others do the Suncoast trail – park at Rt. 54 and turn around at Rt. 52 ~ 20 miles total. I went today for the first time and had a blast. Feel free to join the group – and this includes any interested locals. I’m sure you'll gain some experience from these outings.

Are you there every Sunday or is this just a "in the season" skate?

[streetsk8r]

Bryan,

I would have yelled but did not have enough breath to get past a whisper :-)

Major

Having no hills I will have to try someone to bike with. I have started with the intervals so I will work on that for a while.

Thanks.

[dmoore]

Birgit,
There have been several changes since the post you quoted. Now that summer has arrived roll out is usually ~ 7am. They usually skate on Saturdays, bike on Sundays, followed by indoor practice on Sunday. Since Starkey Park reopened a few months ago, I prefer to begin from there and frequently run into the group on the Suncoast while either skating or biking.

With the arrival of our daily showers (with lots of lightening) the after-work skates have become less predictable. Let me know if you want me to check on the group's current schedule.

I'm anxious to see your little second wheel I've read so much about. ;)

Send me a pm.

[Birgit]

I'm anxious to see your little second wheel I've read so much about. ;)

Send me a pm.

PM send.

And you better watch it, I'm 100% Viking, soooooo...

Oops I better be nice :tongue: otherwise I guess you will not tell me where to meet you guys.

Thanks in advance!!

[Birgit]

I would have yelled but did not have enough breath to get past a whisper :-)



Aha now I know who you are - you are that "knight in yelow (or whatever your t-shirt color was)" that saved my sorry little butt, when I ran out of steam half way through the race.

This being the first time you lead a paceline - you did an awesome job! Thanks.

Sorry that you could not keep up till the end, but the lap you did pull - well done on that! :smile:

[speedysktr]

A couple things to do. Practice going fast downhill. Not coasting, but skating. Gradually do this on a steeper gradient. It will help you get used to what it feels like to skate fast. Also, pacing behind a bike that's there for the purpose of helping you ( as opposed to some guy on bike you happened across). They can maintain a higher speed than you're used to going but you'll have the benifit of the draft. Most important is interval training. Start with 45 seconds to a 1 minute of skating as hard as you can for that distance, meaning you should be able to maintain you speed for the entire interval. This will be a pace much faster than you are capable of skating long term. Rest for about 2-3 minutes skating at an easy pace where you don't feel you're exerting yourself at all. Repeat this 8 to 10 times.
After a few workouts of this, increase your interval time by 15-30 seconds. Make sure you slow down during the rest phase. You can skate and skate, and keep increasing your distance, but you'll never get faster unless you do intervals and speed work. To skate faster, you have to skate faster. Hope this helps.
If you're interested in getting faster heed the above and quit messin' around. It doesn't get any simpler than this. On the other hand it takes a lot of balls and guts to push yourself hard enough to reap the reward of this advice.

Do you want to go fast or what?

[online inline]

If you're interested in getting faster heed the above and quit messin' around. It doesn't get any simpler than this. On the other hand it takes a lot of balls and guts to push yourself hard enough to reap the reward of this advice.

Do you want to go fast or what?

Agreed. One more drill that is helpful in this regard:
This drill takes at two skaters, simulating a paceline or pack. The lead skater maintains an even, steady, moderate pace. The skater in the rear drops back 20 feet off the draft and then sprints to catch up and pass the leader, who does a quick sprint to bridge the gap and upon doing so, the pack slows back down a notch and the next person who is last in line repeats (drops back and sprints to overtake the pack).

This is all about developing power (for the skater in the rear of the pack), and about learning to anticipate and react to breakaways (for the skater in the front).

We've only done this drill a couple of times out, but it's a good real life simulation of race tactics and skills necessary to stay in the thick of it. As a drill it generally works unless some S-for-brains gets a bee up their butt and keeps on going on the sprint.

[Code Monkey]

It was cloudy all day yesterday and around 6:00pm it was 84 degrees out. Ok, that is unbelieveable down here so I grabbed my 100mm skates and decided to do The Majors workout. Damn near killed me. Started with a nice two mile warm up and then got going on the intervals. It is fun to do. But after the fifth one I felt like puking. I did two more very sloppy ones which I am sure I would after gotten a bad look from the Major on but I really was trying. After the seventh one and going onto the eighth I was so shakey and weak that I was having trouble on the 100mm wheels. Finally I fell. Got back up but my form just sucked big time after that and so I did my cool down and called it for the day. Still have issues with the 100mm wheels.

This morning I got out my 5x84s and tried to do some intervals. Oh my god, I was an animal. I think The Major would have smiled. I charged up my hill which is quite a steep little hill a few times and then started on a couple of intervals. I only did three total because I wanted to get in some mileage and thought I should rest one day before hitting the intervals again. I can really feel it all over. So this morning I worked on skating out the soreness. Well, for a while I am going back to my 5x84s. I just don't seem to be able to last on the 100mm wheels yet.

I was told by a friend of mine who is a mechanical engineering genius that since my foot is a size 13 that I will have been stability and speed with a longer frame. I showed him the 5x90 and he immediately said that is for you. His field of study is forces on bodies. Not necessarily human bodies just different objects. He said that since my foot is so large that it sitting on top of a tall but shorter frame causes instability which is why I get weak so quickly on it. He went on about the physics but then boiled it down to saying the 5x90 is the way to go for me and my big feet.

Tonight easy skate and abs.

Tomorrow ... intervals (arrg)

[speedysktr]

dude, you don't do intervals every day, mix it up.

[The Major]

Speedy's correct. Intervals no more than two days a week. My schedule is Intervals on Saturday, Distance on Sunday, Intervals Tuesday, Distance Thursday. On Saturday's our intervals include some good incline work. Tueday is a little flatter. You're body needs time to recover from the hard efforts. Distance is also a hard effort.

[Code Monkey]

Oops, sometimes I really don't have much sense.

I wasn't going to but I saw that hill and said bad things about The Major (in a very respectful way) and decided to climb it. I wanted to test my ability on the 5x84 as opposed to the 4x100. I was so much better (so much better) that I had to try an interval. Then that went so well I had to do another. And another. Then I calmed down. I am walking around today like I just turned 105 years old so I think I will do a couple of days of long skates and on Sunday go blow out with some intervals.

speedy, what do you think of the 5x90 idea? You know theory doesn't always match with reality so I would really like your thoughts on the subject. Remember I have some big ass feet as far as skaters go. One of the reasons I'm afraid to skate in Washington state is because I fear they will think they see Sasquatch on inlines and start shooting. mV probably already has his gun loaded.

[speedysktr]

mV will just beat you with sticks.

CM, Give it a whirl. Do you have one already? I'll sell you my Tru-Rev! I think the drawback for 5x90 is getting it up to speed or quick accelerations. For non-race applications this isn't really a problem. I still like the roll and the stability. I think you might be just as happy on a longer wheelbase 4x100 or a 4x110 with 100's on it.

[Code Monkey]

Hey speedy you have a PM from me.

[speedysktr]

replied

[streetsk8r]

I did find a "mountain" to go skating on - in southwest miramar - Bass Creek road (I didn't see any bass and there is no creek, but a developer came up with a nice name) which has an overpass over I-75. I did see a softshell turtle about 15" crossing the road, maybe he was looking for the bass.

The east side is much longer and is a gentler slope than the west side. The street is in good shape and on Saturday morning there was very little traffic. The road dead ends on the east at 148 ave and the west at 172 ave so I suspect there is never much traffic at all.

The high school is toward the western end so an easy place to park the car.

[streetsk8r]

Thanks for the PM. And to publicly answer the question,

No, I did NOT try to draft the turtle AND

not just because he was moving too fast !!!!!

[tdellaringa]

...

If you have not picked up Barry Publow's book, I'd highly recommend that you do so. ...

I'm new to speedskating, and I just got this book, and I can't recommend it enough. I went out yesterday after only reading like the first 10 pages of this book, and it already has helped me. I've already seen tons of problems in my form and worked on them... it's gonna be a long road though.

But I'm anxious to read the rest, it looks great. You can pick up used on Amazon for like 10 bucks.

Tom

[Bill in Houston]

Is there any particular technique to use to help increase overall speed, or is it more a by-product of continuous training?
Mark, here we are, several months later, and you have gotten pretty fast. What do you think was the best advice you got?

[Mark]

Mark, here we are, several months later, and you have gotten pretty fast. What do you think was the best advice you got?

:confused: I don't know how I got faster, it just seem to have happen. I guess somehow I changed my form or something, but I don't recall it happening from anything anyone told me.

[Bill in Houston]

Okey dokey.

[motosk8ter]

Mark,
I am no expert but I found this and some other items on Youtube that helps with form.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8j-be-h0wo

[bheater777]

...There's many ways to skate faster that yield results for a short time but will soon tire you out and develop bad habits that will ultimately hurt you. One goal i had early on was to be able to skate a marathon more pain-free. In retrospect, i can't believe what a good goal this was. I was acknoledging to myself that i could actually deliver a not all together bad marathon time, but i was having to go through excrutianting efforts and pain to do so. So, within a week of stating this goal to myself, i resolved to complete three tasks:
1) take a lesson(s) from an elite speed skater
2) work on core strength and conditioning to alleviate back issues
3) improve my technique so i could sustain my efforts longer.
And i can tell you that this strategy worked wonderfully.
...
Online/Inline, the insights that you articulate so well are food for the soul for me. This post, and your later post on how the pace a guy should shoot for is relative, are the best insights I've seen for intermediate speed skaters trying to get to the next level. The huddled masses would never think speed skaters could be such prose wizards. Not to slight any of the other regular advanced insight givers in this forum.

I am going to compile your posts O/I, and maybe throw in a couple by Code Monkey and assorted others, and I'm going to write a book, called Insanely Great Speed Skating Insights. It probably won't make me rich, but it will surely be mentioned affectionately by the speakers at my funeral. I might ought to (Winston-Salem phraseology) write the book in novel format, and include characters with all the screen names that we all have come to know and love. I'll surely throw in a few spats. Honestly though, I have Barry Publow's book, and it doesn't give me what I need compared to this forum and threads like this one.

Thanks for ressurecting this thread Bill, or I wouldn't have seen it :-).

[online inline]

thanks, and as for the book, we really need to take advantage of the world wide web, right? So in your book, if you do as you say and use the names of the folks on this website, you need to do it with hotlinks/hyperkinks. And posters like me will have to hyperlink all our posts (and our own book) to the folks who gave us the insights that we evantually shared with you and others. And of course, many of those skaters will do the same.
What am i getting at?
That we are just sharing and passing along stuff someone else was kind enough to share with us. For my part, i know that it's true. Luckily, i had (and still do have to some extent) great skaters in my region who i glommed onto until they could beat certain lessons into me, and at times, that's about what it was.
That, and tapping into books like Publow's Speed on Skates, info on the Bont website, things posted on skating websites, and a few things that even a slow learner like me figured out by doing it ten thousand times....
But mostly, i know what you mean about this exchange forstered by this forum. All the time, while skating, i think about something someone said on here, and it captivates my thoughts for the entire workout, which is of course, envigorating and stimulating.
Thanks for sharing.

[Jessica]

I'd like to know the definition of a hyperkink. Is it someone that's especially deviant or is it a new funky hairstyle? Either way, cool word.

[Code Monkey]

Interesting, I looked up HyperKinky on Wiki and saw your picture Jessica.

Double jointed perhaps?

:D

[online inline]

oh, i don't know, whatever comes to mind.
Which raises the question.... what does come to mind?

[Foot2big]

I find to increase speed, I go to the deeper pool, or the taller ramp. I accelerate at the speed of gravity on each and every run. More gravity, more speed. :p I know, smart azz answer....

I wasn't even gonna reply in this speedskate thread till I got to the end and caught the hyperkink reference. When you guys (Well, Jessica actually heh...) figure it out, post a link eh? :biggrin:

[speedysktr]

dude, there's a special forum available only to certain people. You apply for inclusion, but one of the prerequisites is a certain number of wheels at a certain size. The weight log has been a test thread to weed out the non-hackers. Now that your weight is known, it will be more of a challenge to fool the system. Applicants are sent a weight based, wheel scale pad that senses your wheel size, frame size and weight. You stand on it, in your skates and if you aren't a real speed skater you get sent a little bouquet of pansies... Those dinky little wheels are holding you back.
Open your mind... :p:wink:

[BWI-Sheldon]

For me it is getting lower and bending the knees more deeply. But we all know this, it has been said over and over again. So what is the mystery, why don't people just do it?

Simple! People don't have the ability to do this more than a few strokes. They never use these muscles except for getting up out of a chair or climbing stairs. Just like a newbie strengthening their ankles takes time to build up the muscles, so does getting lower.

I aggressively starting working on this last fall. I would force myself just for a few strokes at a time. Low skate, normal skate, low skate, and normal skate. After a long while, low skate got longer and longer, and speed went through the roof.

In other words, it is a slow long-term muscle building plan.

[speedysktr]

For me it is getting lower and bending the knees more deeply... ...In other words, it is a slow long-term muscle building plan.Well said, Shelly. It's all there, just do it. Wall sits, low walks, voluminous online videos of dryland training... Just do it. It's all about compressing the spring: the leg. Form intervals are my best suggestion. It's all I've done for my last two skates. The 5x90 is killing me right now. Form intervals and drills during the week, tempo on the weekends. There are times when you have to go fast to go fast and there are others when you have to do the extra stuff. Sort it out, try different things, but give the things you try a chance.