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View Full Version : lip or no lip stroker/ lowboy........


jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 03:34 AM
lol.....better start this thread now cuz the storm's-a-comin'!!:tongue:


first the "Shaman" fiasco......now this........
I think these wheel manufacturers are sniffin' some new ingredient in the
urethane!:rolleyes:

Randy Edwards
December 13th, 2008, 03:41 AM
Beck

Loggers had be convinced for my size strokers might be the (new) wheel for me .. so now I'm thinking if these new strokers are all indeed narrow now the market will dictate sell older wider wheels for the big bucks like the other hard to find wheels... anyone agree this will possibly happen or am i jumping the gun ?

stv1zgte
December 13th, 2008, 03:42 AM
They betta have a lip, all pics i have seen have had a lip!
would have thought the hub is open to damage cut down like that.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 03:47 AM
The urethane on my narrow ones is actually slopped over the edge of the hub a bit, so I think they made new molds, rather than actually cutting it down. But it doesn't seem to be affecting the hub at all.

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 03:47 AM
Beck

Loggers had be convinced for my size strokers might be the (new) wheel for me .. so now I'm thinking if these new strokers are all indeed narrow now the market will dictate sell older wider wheels for the big bucks like the other hard to find wheels... anyone agree this will possibly happen or am i jumping the gun ?
hmm.......that's a different perspective....
ya never know these dayz.....but I doubt it.......
maybe it's like another forumer said.......the new narrow lowboy has that additional lanzini emblem.......maybe (hopefully) you'll just be able to
specify which one you want when ordering.......
the only thing is they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot because it makes the whole process of ordering problematic and opened up a whole new realm of mistakes for them to have to fix.......
more shipping charges/ returns/ etc........
now, i'm not trying to be NEGATIVE about all of this.......just REALISTIC...
I see it creating a short term log jam for them.......and episodic frustration for those ordering........

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 03:49 AM
Erm I think that what happened is that Atom decided to retool and make this a narrow wheel. I don't think they are going to sell the wide one at all. yet the people selling them still have the pictures of the wide ones up because that's what they were provided. My wheels were drop shipped from the manufacturer. Skates.com never laid eyes on them and probably doesn't even know they've been changed.

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Erm I think that what happened is that Atom decided to retool and make this a narrow wheel. I don't think they are going to sell the wide one at all. yet the people selling them still have the pictures of the wide ones up because that's what they were provided. My wheels were drop shipped from the manufacturer. Skates.com never laid eyes on them and probably doesn't even know they've been changed.

well that's just CRAZY
don't you think??
how the heck can a manufacturer just DO that??
totally bad judgement on their part.......
but I HOPE it turns out to be no big deal......

but if not...the manufacturer just opened pandora's box for the dealer....

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 03:57 AM
Considering that these are for the derby market, first and foremost, it may actually be a smart decision.

No offense, but you aren't the target demographic. Atom probably thinks that this is a better design for the application, therefore it makes sense to them. We'll see though.

Perhaps someone can write a nice letter to the people at Atom and ask them to explain.

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 04:01 AM
Perhaps someone can write a nice letter to the people at Atom and ask them to explain.

I nominate ATown!!........LMAO.......:biggrin:

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 04:10 AM
no offense either........but not the target demographic?......
are they not in the business to sell skate wheels and as many as possible
to whoever possible?? I understand it being mainly a derby wheel, ......
but ripping your demographical nose off to spite your fiscal face certainly
isn't a lucrative business decision........
if that's the case, they just very well MAY lose many sales.....
However,......maybe they're just so absolutely entrenched in the derby
scene to almost cultic proportions thus considering the loss a sacrifice
on the alter in the middle of the sloped track!!

now don't take all this too seriously......I was just waxing eloquent....:biggrin:

Randy Edwards
December 13th, 2008, 04:15 AM
no offense either........but not the target demographic?......
are they not in the business to sell skate wheels and as many as possible
to whoever possible?? I understand it being mainly a derby wheel, ......
but ripping your demographical nose off to spite your fiscal face certainly
isn't a lucrative business decision........
if that's the case, they just very well MAY lose many sales.....
However,......maybe they're just so absolutely entrenched in the derby
scene to almost cultic proportions thus considering the loss a sacrifice
on the alter in the middle of the sloped track!!

now don't take all this too seriously......I was just waxing eloquent....:biggrin:


the rink I'm going to tomorrow has 2 new stroker wheel owners there and i was going to decide then if strokers was for me and 4 sets was my order plans if all went/goes well..
but until this mess is cleared up I wont be ordering them

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 04:23 AM
You forget that the derby market absolutely dwarfs all other quad skating markets right now in terms of numbers. Atom could piss off every jamskater/speedskater/shuffle skater in the world and still have 250 leagues times about 50 girls = 12,500 potential sales.

That means making something that only the derby market wants could easily be the best way to sell as many as possible.

There are very few other narrow wheels out there, and as derby matures it is finding that what works for pure speed (overhanging lips) is not so crucial for derby. Maneuverability and the extra few mm to slip by your opponent is a huge plus. In fact, my prediction is that in a few years, the whole derby market will be using narrow speed wheels.

So the hard truth is, Atom probably doesn't need you. Or at least it doesn't as long as the derby trend keeps growing ;)

And um, most of us don't skate on a sloped track. :)

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 04:33 AM
You forget that the derby market absolutely dwarfs all other quad skating markets right now in terms of numbers. Atom could piss off every jamskater/speedskater/shuffle skater in the world and still have 250 leagues times about 50 girls = 12,500 potential sales.

That means making something that only the derby market wants could easily be the best way to sell as many as possible.

There are very few other narrow wheels out there, and as derby matures it is finding that what works for pure speed (overhanging lips) is not so crucial for derby. Maneuverability and the extra few mm to slip by your opponent is a huge plus. In fact, my prediction is that in a few years, the whole derby market will be using narrow speed wheels.

So the hard truth is, Atom probably doesn't need you. Or at least it doesn't as long as the derby trend keeps growing ;)

And um, most of us don't skate on a sloped track. :)
*throws up hands*
well, I guess you read MY beads.....lol

but I'm still not convinced that they would settle for sales to derby ONLY
when they could pull in so much more.......
I STILL think they will be giving the option to choose.....
LIP or NO LIP.......I guess we shall see.......

oh,......and you're just too cool for school.......:tongue::wink::biggrin:

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 05:02 AM
I STILL think they will be giving the option to choose.....
LIP or NO LIP.......I guess we shall see.......

Well I wish they would, I think that's the right thing to do.

73watermutt
December 13th, 2008, 05:38 AM
This seems like it's just out of the blue. I am glad I got the regular width Strokers. If they are going to change them then they need to make people aware of it. I know I would have been hella pi$$ed if they sent me narrow wheels.

BackofthePack
December 13th, 2008, 05:54 AM
Mine will be returned if they are the hacked off version.

Live2sk888
December 13th, 2008, 06:07 AM
Yeah I'm totally glad now that I have a wide set of each!!!

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 06:22 AM
I wrote to Atom tonight to see if they'll enlighten us.

BackofthePack
December 13th, 2008, 08:00 AM
Considering that these are for the derby market, first and foremost, it may actually be a smart decision.

No offense, but you aren't the target demographic. Atom probably thinks that this is a better design for the application, therefore it makes sense to them. We'll see though.

Perhaps someone can write a nice letter to the people at Atom and ask them to explain.


OK, then I'm confused as hell because I just googled "ATOM strokers" and nearly all the hits returned refer to it as a "speed" wheel. I can find only one reference to it being sold as a Derby wheel and that's one auction on eBay.

If they want to re-market this to a larger target audience like Derby that's fine, but pulling a bait and switch is not cool!

Live2sk888
December 13th, 2008, 08:14 AM
Yeah in the new brochure, they show the Stroker as a speed wheel and the Lowboy as a derby wheel.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Go look at the atom wheels website. They have it divided into two parts. Inline speed and quad derby. No mention of any other type of quad skating. Read the the derby section...it says right there that that derby is what they focus on.

"speed" in front of a wheel just means it isn't an art or outdoor wheel. Yes, derby uses "speed" wheels...but that doesn't mean that what Atom is making for the derby market is for quad speed racing.

MANY of their wheels were developed specifically for derby. And they continue to be. Because the two things overlap. That doesn't mean that they aren't thinking about one market more than the other though.

I think not offering the Stroker in the wide version would be a mistake, for sure, but right now we don't know what is going on.

(Understand that I'm not defending Atom here, just explaining what could be a logical reason for the change. Someone has to think about these things you know ;) )

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Somewhere there is a USARS list of all the wheels approved for official races....is the Stroker on there? I'm curious now.

BackofthePack
December 13th, 2008, 08:31 AM
"speed" in front of a wheel just means it isn't an art or outdoor wheel.

Sorry, not agreeing with you on that one.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 08:33 AM
Sorry, not agreeing with you on that one.

Right, then why are all the websites where you buy wheels divided into quad "Speed", "Art" and "Outdoor"? (or sometimes Indoor/Outdoor/Speed) but that's not important.

There is no doubt that the word is used as a generic category this way.

BackofthePack
December 13th, 2008, 08:46 AM
So let me get this straight, it's marketed as a "speed" wheel, but isn't really for speed skating, but for Derby, which now uses "speed" wheels. But it's not to be confused with a "Derby" wheel which is marketed specifically for Derby skaters.

Man have I been away far too long :frown:

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 08:53 AM
Hmm....I did notice that, unlike anyone else, Connie's Skate place describes the Strokers as being 62x32 mm. Wonder which one you'd get if you ordered form there. LPS says they are 62x44mm. Everyone has the same picture though...with the lip.

I really hope that Atom answers. Until then, their motivation/goal/betrayal *omg* is really just speculation.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 08:58 AM
So let me get this straight, it's marketed as a "speed" wheel, but isn't really for speed skating, but for Derby, which now uses "speed" wheels. But it's not to be confused with a "Derby" wheel which is marketed specifically for Derby skaters.

Man have I been away far too long :frown:


It's not your fault. All the derby specific wheels are labeled as speed wheels too.

Example:

"Atom Lowboy Skate Wheels (Set of 8)

# Featuring ATOM's brand new, revolutionary Hybrid Hollow Core (HHC) system, the ATOM formula-8863 by world renown chemist and wheel guru, Neil Piper, is a speed wheel that is 25% lighter than most aluminum wheels. These wheels are excellent on all different types of surface: sport court, coated surfaces indoor and smooth cement. A great wheel for rollergirls. Buy today!62mm X 32mm"

The two things just overlap too much.

You know how many absolutely unskateable wheels for racing they call "speed" wheels. They call Twisters "Twister Speed Skate Wheels (Set of 8)" for goodness sake. Can you imagine racing on them? It's the shape that gets them labeled that though, not their usefulness for speed skating.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 09:07 AM
It's like this: I would have said that Strokers were more a speed than derby wheel...until the rumors of narrow ones popped up. Because taking the lip off for speed skating is crazy. The only logical explanation for that is that they are aiming at the Derby market, especially if they stop making the wide ones.

It's possible they were aiming at that market all along. But we don't know, 'cause they haven't said...so as I said before...it's all speculation right now...either way.

rhetttro
December 13th, 2008, 12:46 PM
The strokers I got a couple weeks ago from Backstreet are wide. I ordered Lowboys for my son for Chritmas from Backstreet a couple of days ago. His site has no description and he didn't ask about width on the phone when I orderd. I hope they are the 44's.

fireproof
December 13th, 2008, 01:56 PM
oooohttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/fireproof2000/Picture156.jpg

SeanPrice
December 13th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Fireproof those look badass on the skunk/reactor setup... Hmmm might have to purchase these when I send my lips off to be re-grooved

zinger
December 13th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Fireproof, are there two different logos printed on your wheels? My set just has the mark that looks like the "A" within a swirling nucleus. Hmmm...

fireproof
December 13th, 2008, 02:38 PM
yea, each wheel has two of the swirling nucleus thing and then there is another logo as well.

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 03:11 PM
ok,......so the new narrow wheels have the stroker/lowboy AND luzini (or whatever it says) emblems on them........
the old ones (wide) just say stroker or lowboy....

I STILL say springing this change on everyone was a BIG mistake
on atom's part.........they're gonna have problems 'cuz of it and a
big ole logjam will result........

Damnit...I hate to be negative......but it's ALREADY happening......:frown:

fireproof
December 13th, 2008, 03:15 PM
I haven't skated my narrow ones yet but I'm sure they will skate just fine. I don't have a big problem with the narrow thing but I did have a problem with forking out $100.00 bucks for the so called "firm" Shamans only to find I needed a tow to get around the floor.

zinger
December 13th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Sorry, missed the pics in the other thread. Guess I gotta try to get my grubby lil hands on another wide set before they're gone.

jammn'beck
December 13th, 2008, 03:55 PM
this should come as a shock to nobody really......
heck, look how many times they've changed their name!
matter........answer........now atom........

they change their name like changin' underwear.....
so springin' a change in the wheels on us is just par for the course!:rolleyes:

pavement
December 13th, 2008, 05:52 PM
whats wrong is when i ordered this wheel the site said 62mm x 44mm in description. now i expect to get that dimension of a wheel. you cant sell one thing and ship another...thats just bad business...i don't care who you are.

73watermutt
December 13th, 2008, 06:15 PM
whats wrong is when i ordered this wheel the site said 62mm x 44mm in description. now i expect to get that dimension of a wheel. you cant sell one thing and ship another...thats just bad business...i don't care who you are.


Agreed!!!!!, The buyers should be made aware of the change.

beep1o
December 13th, 2008, 06:23 PM
whats wrong is when i ordered this wheel the site said 62mm x 44mm in description. now i expect to get that dimension of a wheel. you cant sell one thing and ship another...thats just bad business...i don't care who you are.


Did it say that? If you ordered from backstreetinline...they don't give a dimension.

pavement
December 13th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Did it say that? If you ordered from backstreetinline...they don't give a dimension.


No i ordered from LPS and the description is clearly stated. I also sent an e-mail to LPS and this is what i got back.

Yes, the new ones are going to come in the narrow hub style with NO lip BUTTTT i can get the regular ones because we still have them. Please when you place your order. Put which ones you want.

Thanks!!

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:59 AM, grooved pavement <aulich@comcast.net> wrote:

I'm planning on ordering a set of atom strokers. I have been hearing on
the forum that these wheels are coming in 2 sizes the regular 62 x 44
size and a size where the lip has been shaved off. What version are you
selling, and can i be guaranteed the version that is 62 x 44mm?




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