Time for a Custom Build.

[Beer Hunter]

I have come to believe that my regular skate plates may not be strong enough to handle the WIDE ramp trucks along with my 240 lbs while skating in the park. I found this after a somewhat nasty fall this morning.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/004.jpg

The rear truck pivot had appeared to come out of the cup retainer. Upon closer examination, I realized that there was damage to the plate itself.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/001.jpg

The pivot had actually punched through the sidewall of the plate. At first I thought that the fall caused the damage, but I soon began to suspect that the break caused me to lose control. I sure did not feel like I had violated the laws of physics! It's hard to know for sure, kinda like a chicken/egg situation right now.
I fell while coming back down a 7-8' wall from a left hand turn (high speed) in the bowl at LBJ park in San Antonio. I had just bought new pads/guards and a helmet two days earlier, and this was the first fall for the new gear. The left knee plate is rashed, the right side of both skate boots have some scuffs, both wrist guards palm splints scraped and light damage to both elbows. The helmet was not touched.
I think that I went down left knee first, then tumbled to the right and landed on my arse. But it happened so quickly that it could have been the other way around. I do recall a twisting feeling in my left leg during the fall as I tumbled over, probably from the skate bouncing off the ground. The damage seems to point toward the first theory.
My tail bone is sore, and the left knee hurts too. The knee pain is not on the surface, so impact damage is not likely...seems to be from twisting. Moving around is somewhat difficult... it will probably be a couple of weeks until I can skate again. Time will tell.

So, I am considering going the common skateboard trucks route. Maybe I will buy an inexpensive long board and cut it up to use as skate plates. Does anyone have experience with this? I am open to truck recommendations as well.

[biffsk8er]

Is any metal part actually damaged? I cannot see any metal damage from these pictures. Only a ruptured pivot bushing. Did the truck actually punch through the sidewall of the hanger?! Or did it just pop out while ripping only the rubber pivot bushing??

Could be a couple of things that caused it if the metal is not damaged:

1) Your truck might have been too loose, thereby allowing the truck to pop out of the pivot cup.

2) Your trucks might not have been made with the same angle as the angle of your pivot cup. Meaning that they are the wrong trucks to use for those plate hangers. That would definitely cause them to pop out.

3) Your truck bushings may be loose, or not seated properly. Allowing the truck to shift under pressure and pop out of the pivot cup.

4) You are one big fella, and your skates are rebelling against you!

Feel free to contact me for advice and discussion on what to do. I've dealt with hundreds of skate issues over the years. I've fixed many peoples skates, and I'll gladly share any knowledge that I might have that can help.

[biffsk8er]

So, I am considering going the common skateboard trucks route. Maybe I will buy an inexpensive long board and cut it up to use as skate plates. Does anyone have experience with this? I am open to truck recommendations as well.I do. I have used regular skateboard trucks, and they are too wide. You'll want to find mid-track trucks if you can. They are generally around 100mm instead of the average skateboard truck which is most often around 139mm.

Let alone the fact that you definitely do not want the trucks off of a long-board, as those trucks can be super wide. You'll end up tripping all over them. Nothing worse than clipping your wheels together at high speed! It'll lock those wheels up lickety split and send you flying into a wall or into the flat!! Been there, done that!!

If you have the proper tools, old snow skis make fabulous skate plates for mounting skateboard trucks on. And you can often find them dirt cheap in resale shops.

[Beer Hunter]

Is any metal part actually damaged? I cannot see any metal damage from these pictures. Only a ruptured pivot bushing. Did the truck actually punch through the sidewall of the hanger?! Or did it just pop out while ripping only the rubber pivot bushing??


Here is a closer look at the damage...

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/BrokenSkate009.jpg

[Beer Hunter]

I do. I have used regular skateboard trucks, and they are too wide. You'll want to find mid-track trucks if you can. They are generally around 100mm instead of the average skateboard truck which is most often around 139mm.

Let alone the fact that you definitely do not want the trucks off of a long-board, as those trucks can be super wide.

What I meant to say is this.
1. Buy a longboard wood deck as a single component.
2. Cut the deck into 2 plates.
3. Buy ~105mm trucks.
4. Mount trucks to the wooden plates.

I am very curious about the Seismic trucks. Do you have any experience with those? The function is intriguing. Possibly the 30 degree 105mm, but not sure what springs to go with.

[biffsk8er]

What I meant to say is this.
1. Buy a longboard wood deck as a single component.
2. Cut the deck into 2 plates.
3. Buy ~105mm trucks.
4. Mount trucks to the wooden plates.

I am very curious about the Seismic trucks. Do you have any experience with those? The function is intriguing. Possibly the 30 degree 105mm, but not sure what springs to go with.I seem to remember someone saying that seismics aren't all that great. I think it had something to do with them not grinding well. You might want to ask this on the quad vert forum HERE (http://www.adinfinitum.de/php/index.php?page=main.page&theme=Vert-Skating&index=-1).

105 mm trucks sounds fine. I wouldn't use a skateboard for your plates. Too big, too heavy. And, it will break more quickly on a pair of rollerskates, especially after being cut into two smaller plates. Besides, skateboards are not usually completely flat.

[Armadillo]

Beer Hunter,

The wide truck is not compatible with plates using rubber bushed pivot cups.
The level of force developed is likely too great for the rubber to sustain.
Once the pivot pin pinches the rubber away and you start getting metal to metal contact, the pivot pin then concentrates all the force on too small of an area, thus the cup breakout results. Got to spread the load better & without the rubber there, this ain't happening.

You need a nylon bushed pivot type of a plate, or anything stronger than rubber at least.

-Armadillo

[biffsk8er]

Well said Armadillo. I hadn't thought of that, as I've never tried to adapt wider trucks to regular hangers.

[Elysarian]

Here in the UK (at least where I skate) we use the fiolowing setup for pretty much everything (including Vert) -

Variflex plate (http://www.kateskates.co.uk/productdetails.html?x5=2147369980&x1=2060188474&x2=&x3=).
ACS 651 axles (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ACS-651-TRUCK-HANGER-70s-SICKNESS_W0QQitemZ200315816290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea3c0c962&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177&_trkparms=%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50).
Jump bars (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Variflex-Steel-Jump-Bars-4-Quad-Roller-Skates-17-5cm_W0QQitemZ180368062629QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_Skateboarding_Skating_ET?hash=item29fec638a5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50).

Not sure if these components are available in the US but I've never seen a plate "pop" with this setup (without the jump bars I've seen the plates snap though).

[biffsk8er]

Not sure if these components are available in the US but I've never seen a plate "pop" with this setup (without the jump bars I've seen the plates snap though).I use skis cut to length for my skate plates. Never ever snapped on me.
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/biffsk8er/New%20Quad%20Set%20Up%204%2014%2009/baselayedout.jpg

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/biffsk8er/New%20Quad%20Set%20Up%204%2014%2009/IMGA0511.jpg

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/biffsk8er/New%20Quad%20Set%20Up%204%2014%2009/Frontgrounddown.jpg

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/biffsk8er/New%20Quad%20Set%20Up%204%2014%2009/Reargrounddown.jpg

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss99/biffsk8er/New%20Quad%20Set%20Up%204%2014%2009/grind_plate1.jpg

[Beer Hunter]

Beer Hunter,

The wide truck is not compatible with plates using rubber bushed pivot cups.
The level of force developed is likely too great for the rubber to sustain.
Once the pivot pin pinches the rubber away and you start getting metal to metal contact, the pivot pin then concentrates all the force on too small of an area, thus the cup breakout results. Got to spread the load better & without the rubber there, this ain't happening.

You need a nylon bushed pivot type of a plate, or anything stronger than rubber at least.

-Armadillo


Thanks for your input on this matter. I did have a set of the hard plastic pivot inserts installed at one time, but they got chewed up really fast with these wide trucks. I am disappointed that Sure Grip did not mention which pivot inserts to use with the wide trucks, or provide new ones that match the wide trucks. Everything advertised shows that the ramp trucks work with Super X, Probe, Competitor, etc.

I have been dealing with crooked trucks anyhow (poorly machined bushing seats), so this new problem that I have found makes me not want to deal with that company again. I have ordered 2 sets of skateboard trucks made by Bullet, 105mm and low profile. They were inexpensive, and tuning the suspension with Khiro urethane bushings will be easy and inexpensive as well. The bullet trucks will also allow me to keep using the steel grind plates that I now know how to make, and which work really well for me.

The idea of using Seismic was attractive... right up until I found that changing the springs out would cost me at least $40 for all 4 trucks. That and the fact that nobody really knows what springs would actually work best given my weight and skate wheelbase. Changing the springs 2 or three times would be a real possibility. I simply cannot afford to go that route.

I am still not sure what to use for mounting plates. I would like to do the skateboard butchering route, but a buddy of mine works in plastics and knows what materials may or may not be suitable for such a device. I will talk with him this weekend and should have a decision by the time my new trucks arrive on Tuesday.

[Elysarian]

Thanks for your input on this matter. I did have a set of the hard plastic pivot inserts installed at one time, but they got chewed up really fast with these wide trucks. I am disappointed that Sure Grip did not mention which pivot inserts to use with the wide trucks, or provide new ones that match the wide trucks. Everything advertised shows that the ramp trucks work with Super X, Probe, Competitor, etc.

I have been dealing with crooked trucks anyhow (poorly machined bushing seats), so this new problem that I have found makes me not want to deal with that company again. I have ordered 2 sets of skateboard trucks made by Bullet, 105mm and low profile. They were inexpensive, and tuning the suspension with Khiro urethane bushings will be easy and inexpensive as well. The bullet trucks will also allow me to keep using the steel grind plates that I now know how to make, and which work really well for me.

The idea of using Seismic was attractive... right up until I found that changing the springs out would cost me at least $40 for all 4 trucks. That and the fact that nobody really knows what springs would actually work best given my weight and skate wheelbase. Changing the springs 2 or three times would be a real possibility. I simply cannot afford to go that route.

I am still not sure what to use for mounting plates. I would like to do the skateboard butchering route, but a buddy of mine works in plastics and knows what materials may or may not be suitable for such a device. I will talk with him this weekend and should have a decision by the time my new trucks arrive on Tuesday.

If you decide to go with using skateboard trucks then the consensus does seem to be that skis make great mounts (you could also use some of the leftover material to make grind-bars).

There's info on how to best do this in other threads but the basic point is that you need to put at least two bolts on each truck through the boot sole as well as the ski to sandwich the whole thing together.

as for other plastics... I can only think of polycarbonate (as used in police riot shields) as being strong enough but it's probably too flexible to make a decent platform and can also be a bugger to work with because it tends to go melty when you cut it.

[Beer Hunter]

I bought the trucks on Amazon, and the super saver free shipping will take longer than I had hoped. More than a week longer.

I now have a piece of 1/4" phenolic sheet 26" x 6" wide, enough to mount both boots. I got it for 5 bucks, so if it does not work out I can try something else. It is fairly strong although a bit flexible. Once the trucks are mounted it will be much firmer, and I also need to add a metal piece in the center for support of the steel grinders. I am considering a section of 1/8" aluminum 'U' channel about 3/8 x 3/4 wide. This will also add much rigidity to the plate assembly.

Since it is taking longer to receive the trucks than I had anticipated, I got an itch to skate and did some research on aluminum repair. Here is my end result.


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/SkateFixed022.jpg

I also installed the harder plastic pivot cups in both plates to more evenly distribute the force applied by the truck pivot action. I will be at the park in the morning for a test run and am confident that the braze is a solid fix. It will definitely get me by for a couple more days.

[biffsk8er]

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/SkateFixed022.jpgThat looks like a really good professional job repairing that break! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Good luck and good skating!

[Beer Hunter]

Yep, I put those plastic inserts back in and they skated just fine with the repaired plate. I would not hesitate to skate them again, if needed.

The work on the new setup is finished, and the first skate session has been completed successfully.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/Final1.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/SkateVertical/Final3.jpg

All the flex in the phenolic plate material was negated once the 1/8" steel grinder plates were mounted. the kingpins really cannot move in any direction at all.

The new trucks are very smooth! I am impressed with the ride quality, and speed seems to come a little easier as well. Stability is also very good.

This particular pair of speed boots have now been mounted 5 times. I had to fill in a couple of holes and then re-drill in order to get the kingpins on the centerline of the boots.

[biffsk8er]

Awesome!!