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Cantaloupe
January 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Hello,

I want to build some quads for outdoors and would appreciate any advice.

I need to build my own as the shoe/boot fit is very important (narrow feet and flimsy ankles). I want to use a high-top or lightweight hiking boot with good support that I know fits me well. My 'must haves' are heel breaks and metal plates.

Shoe size: US-9 EU-43 (length-276.86mm)
Shoe width: AAAA (width at ball-101.6mm width at heel-63.5mm)
Weight 170-200

I will be using them as one of my many commuting options so I don't want to start investing a lot of money until I'm sure that I like the skating the route. However I don't want anything so cheap that I will *have* to replace them before I'm ready. If I must choose, I prefer low cost, weight and durability over performance. A setup on which I could improve individual parts would be excellent.

I will be using them in the city.
Skating surfaces:
90% uneven paving stones
7% granite cobblestone
3% asphalt

I was thinking of buying some used skates (Carrera or Chicago Roller Derby are in stock) and mounting my own shoe/boot.--Is that possible? Is it a good idea? Are there any other packaged brands that would work better?

As you can see I need a lot of help.

wired
January 11th, 2010, 05:23 PM
I want to build some quads for outdoors and would appreciate any advice.

I think most of the info you need has already been covered in this forum. Hopefully you have read many posts and used the Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum (http://www.skatelogforum.com/search.htm) link that can be found above the posts to find useful information.


Weight 170-200

Carats, Pounds, Kilograms, Stones, Slugs? I guess pounds but since your other measurements are in millimeters...



I will be using them in the city.
Skating surfaces:
90% uneven paving stones
7% granite cobblestone
3% asphalt


That seems fairly rough. Have you seen other skaters on the "uneven paving stones"?



I was thinking of buying some used skates (Carrera or Chicago Roller Derby are in stock) and mounting my own shoe/boot.--Is that possible? Is it a good idea? Are there any other packaged brands that would work better?

I don't see any advantage to buying a skate package, taking it apart and then mounting your own boot. Much easier is get a set of plates, some wheels, bearings and mounting bolts and go to it!

Don't discount plastic plates. They can be extremely durable and are not effected by corrosion.

cass38a
January 12th, 2010, 07:43 AM
if its 170kg to 200kg they won't be skating so my guess is pounds.

I really think you should be looking at inline skates based on the conditions you describe.......they tick all the boxes IMO.

Cantaloupe
January 12th, 2010, 09:41 PM
That's 170-200lbs NOT KILOGRAMS. :eek:

I will be skating mostly in Brussels and Paris on the sidewalks hence the surfaces. If I were doing indoor skating or skating someplace generally smooth I wouldn't mind a nylon plate.

If I did do the whole setup myself I would probably go with the

Sure-Grip X plate (which I would reverse)
Bones Reds bearings
Aerobic Outdoor Wheels or skateboard wheels (supposedly softer and cheaper)


Is this really any better than a package I might get at a sporting goods store with an aluminum double-action plate (which I would reverse)?


Roller Derby RTS400 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2540847&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Chicago 405 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=835252&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Roller Derby Formula Z-7 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3835434&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Bill in Houston
January 12th, 2010, 10:30 PM
I really think you should be looking at inline skates based on the conditions you describe.......they tick all the boxes IMO.+1

Not to tell anyone what they should and shouldn't do, but really think about NOT going with quads.

wired
January 12th, 2010, 10:49 PM
That's 170-200lbs NOT KILOGRAMS. :eek:

Thank goodness it isn't in slugs where 180 = 5791 lbs...


I will be skating mostly in Brussels and Paris on the sidewalks hence the surfaces. If I were doing indoor skating or skating someplace generally smooth I wouldn't mind a nylon plate.

If I did do the whole setup myself I would probably go with the

Sure-Grip X plate (which I would reverse)
Bones Reds bearings
Aerobic Outdoor Wheels or skateboard wheels (supposedly softer and cheaper)


Is this really any better than a package I might get at a sporting goods store with an aluminum double-action plate (which I would reverse)?


Roller Derby RTS400 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2540847&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Chicago 405 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=835252&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Roller Derby Formula Z-7 (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3835434&cp=2367438.2367828.2713633.2716595)

Well the first package is a plastic plate that is riveted on to the boot. Unless you are good with a drill or have some sort of Dremel type cut-off wheel removing the plate is a challenge. You have to take it slow to avoid melting the plastic.

The other two appear to use machine screws for mounting. You MIGHT be able to reuse those with your custom mount. It depends on the thickness of the boot sole.

The pricing is quite tempting since the entire package is less than a Super-X (or Probe) plate. Who knows the boot might fit... I have my doubts that any of those wheels would be a good choice for outdoor use. It may be that no quad skate wheel will work well on your proposed surfaces. You may be better of with an inline or some Scorpion skates.

For rough surfaces don't discount the advantages of a nylon plate. First they are quite tough, second they don't corrode and third they do a better job isolating your feet from vibration. I have Probes on by outdoor skates and at over 200 lbs they work just fine for my skating ability. I use metal plates indoors where control is more of an issue.

In short, if you want an outdoor skate you will need to build it yourself. Personally I would got the component route since I could pick the parts I know work well outdoors. Wheels are key. I really like 70mm wheels outdoors and not all plate/truck combinations will accommodate them.

Bill in Houston
January 13th, 2010, 03:06 AM
There was a place selling skorpions for 99 bucks... Maybe think about quadlines? anything you can do to get a larger wheel will help...

Cantaloupe
January 13th, 2010, 10:03 PM
There was a place selling skorpions for 99 bucks... Maybe think about quadlines? anything you can do to get a larger wheel will help...

I switched to inlines when they were the big thing. I thought that I would like them because I like ice skating. However, I didn't like the balance posture and all of the safety equipment.

I considered quad lines but I wasn't sure if it was just a fad. I wouldn't be opposed to trying different wheels (inline, skateboard). Would any quad plate work with quadline/inline wheels as well as regular quad wheels?

Cantaloupe
January 13th, 2010, 10:21 PM
Well the first package is a plastic plate that is riveted on to the boot. Unless you are good with a drill or have some sort of Dremel type cut-off wheel removing the plate is a challenge. You have to take it slow to avoid melting the plastic.

The other two appear to use machine screws for mounting. You MIGHT be able to reuse those with your custom mount. It depends on the thickness of the boot sole.

The pricing is quite tempting since the entire package is less than a Super-X (or Probe) plate. Who knows the boot might fit... I have my doubts that any of those wheels would be a good choice for outdoor use. It may be that no quad skate wheel will work well on your proposed surfaces. You may be better of with an inline or some Scorpion skates.

For rough surfaces don't discount the advantages of a nylon plate. First they are quite tough, second they don't corrode and third they do a better job isolating your feet from vibration. I have Probes on by outdoor skates and at over 200 lbs they work just fine for my skating ability. I use metal plates indoors where control is more of an issue.

In short, if you want an outdoor skate you will need to build it yourself. Personally I would got the component route since I could pick the parts I know work well outdoors. Wheels are key. I really like 70mm wheels outdoors and not all plate/truck combinations will accommodate them.

I went around yesterday and looked at what was available (at least locally). I thought that all of the links to models I listed had metal plates. However, except for one, only the trucks were metal. :( The Z-7 plate was chrome plated plastic (FRAUD). I saw the wheels and would *definitely* want larger ones.

By seeing the skates, I also got a better opinion of nylon plates. Most weren't as flimsy as I had imagined. The weight was noticeably lighter. I saw a pair of Hard Candy Plates with 62mm wheels. I would have bought them on the spot but they were on a size 7 boot (I wear sz 9).

Is there any way of knowing if a packaged plate will accept larger wheels?

I have my doubts that any of those wheels would be a good choice for outdoor use. It may be that no quad skate wheel will work well on your proposed surfaces.

I see a few quad skaters but of course inlines are more popular.--So I'm not sure if the limited numbers are due to the surfaces or the lack of popularity. Skaters are supposed to be able to use the smooth asphalt bus/taxi lanes starting this year but it depends how safe I feel as to whether or not I will use them or stick with the sidewalks.

I'm seriously considering the Dominion Marathon 2, perhaps the Pacer Quad Cruiser (I wish I could see them first). Do you know if they will accept a large wheel? If I do order them should I match my boot size or go up or down a size?

Aside from the size, 70mm+, what should I look for in a wheel?

Bill in Houston
January 14th, 2010, 01:43 AM
I switched to inlines when they were the big thing. I thought that I would like them because I like ice skating. However, I didn't like the balance posture and all of the safety equipment. I'm pretty sure that the safety equipment is there to protect you, not as some sort of required accessories for inline skates...

As far as quadlines, I believe that the trucks are wider and allow you to use larger wheels than you could use with standard quad skates.

wired
January 14th, 2010, 03:38 AM
I considered quad lines but I wasn't sure if it was just a fad. I wouldn't be opposed to trying different wheels (inline, skateboard). Would any quad plate work with quadline/inline wheels as well as regular quad wheels?

There is a bit of confusion about Quadlines since they refer to two different products.

There Quadline skate packages and Quadline conversions for "normal" quad skates. Essentially these use a wider truck that enables the use of larger narrow wheels on a "normal" quad skate. I have not tried these and am somewhat concerned with the height of the entire assembly.

Second are Skorpions. These fit over most athletic type shoes and are held on by two straps. In their original form they had lawnmower type wheels and were designed for skating on various surfaces including grass. When these skates came to the US the bright idea was hatched to outfit them with the large narrow "Quadline" wheels by using a spacer to take up the extra axle length required by the "lawnmower" type wheel. This configuration is referred to as a Skorpion Quadline. Some of the newer models have shorter axles and can only use the Quadline wheels.

In my mind one of the advantages of the Skorpion (with either wheel) over the Quadlines is a lower center of gravity.

I tried inline wheels on a regular set of skates with Probes and regular trucks. It sucked. Very tippy and little control. Like Doc says "you can learn to skate anything" but I wasn't inclined to give it more than 15 minutes.

Armadillo
January 14th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Cantaloupe, with your surface descriptions being of mostly UNEVEN paving stones, NO QUAD BUILD will ever do WELL handling these surfaces -- NO MATTER HOW CUSTOMIZED FOR OUTDOORS you make it. Hello,

I will be using them in the city.
Skating surfaces:
90% uneven paving stones
7% granite cobblestone
3% asphalt

.

You are simply asking too much to think a quad build can be tweaked enough to handle these kinds of HORRIBLE SURFACE CONDITIONS. Even giant soft wheels and a LONG FORWARD MOUNT build will not be sufficient. A two-axle normal quad style skate simply CANNOT roll smoothly over uneven paving stones - period. You may have a very high tolerance for the continuous CLUNK-CLUNK of every uneven crack passing below your skates, but when your front wheels frequently stick & pitch you forward, the eventual FACE PLANTS that you encounter will soon make you see why I am so seriously trying to discourage you. You would likely be much safer on the asphalt pavement!! It is also absurd to even consider NOT WEARING PROTECTIVE GEAR just because quads seem less risky to you. You WILL hit the sidewalk eventually.

The only NON-INLINE skate I have ever found that did fairly well clearing sudden upward changes in surface height were 3-wheel skates that had a single wide front wheel mounted INLINE style on a cantilevered carrier with urethane shock absorber letting it rise up to 1/2" on heavy impacts. The combo of the soft 80mm front wheel and shock absorbing suspension really let this skate clear uneven surface imperfections very smoothly. However, it did NOT skate much like a quad at all. The 3-wheel scheme messed up the normal quad stroke biometrics quite a lot, and they were slow & awkward.
Full Thread=>http://skatelogforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23244&highlight=3-wheel

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/3Wheeler/IMG_3744.jpg

If you still feel compelled to try a quad build I will give you some pointers.
Read and view my many posts here at SLF on optimizing outdoor builds. Use high-top BASKETBALL SHOES - not Hiking Boots. Good luck, you will certainly need more than a little to have success with this project.
-Armadillo

Cantaloupe
January 15th, 2010, 07:14 AM
I'm pretty sure that the safety equipment is there to protect you, not as some sort of required accessories for inline skates...

LOL... Yes, the equipment was to protect me. Nevertheless, there was a lot of it and I never used it with quads.

Cantaloupe
January 15th, 2010, 07:16 AM
There is a bit of confusion about Quadlines since they refer to two different products.

There Quadline skate packages and Quadline conversions for "normal" quad skates. Essentially these use a wider truck that enables the use of larger narrow wheels on a "normal" quad skate. I have not tried these and am somewhat concerned with the height of the entire assembly.

Second are Skorpions. These fit over most athletic type shoes and are held on by two straps. In their original form they had lawnmower type wheels and were designed for skating on various surfaces including grass. When these skates came to the US the bright idea was hatched to outfit them with the large narrow "Quadline" wheels by using a spacer to take up the extra axle length required by the "lawnmower" type wheel. This configuration is referred to as a Skorpion Quadline. Some of the newer models have shorter axles and can only use the Quadline wheels.

In my mind one of the advantages of the Skorpion (with either wheel) over the Quadlines is a lower center of gravity.

I tried inline wheels on a regular set of skates with Probes and regular trucks. It sucked. Very tippy and little control. Like Doc says "you can learn to skate anything" but I wasn't inclined to give it more than 15 minutes.

I've seen the Skorpions. I really liked their lower positioning vs quadline skates. The longevity/repairability (is that a word) of the straps concerned me.

While looking for quadline plates I saw a conversion package but it didn't quite make sense to buy a plate made for one purpose just to modify it for another.

I've been reading some of the threads in the aggressive quad forum about axle mods and DIY plates made from skis. It has me really interested in trying some. Not that I have any interest in aggro skating but I like modding anything.

wired
January 15th, 2010, 01:34 PM
I've seen the Skorpions. I really liked their lower positioning vs quadline skates. The longevity/repairability (is that a word) of the straps concerned me.

The straps are replaceable. One screw holds each one on.

The entire skate is fairly sturdy. I haven't managed to break anything yet. At $99 a pair during the current sale at skates.com (http://www.skates.com/Skorpion-Quadline-Urban-Roller-Skates-p/skrpq08-lg.htm&Click=150534) they are reasonably priced. See a previous post for a possible discount code if you are interested.


I've been reading some of the threads in the aggressive quad forum about axle mods and DIY plates made from skis. It has me really interested in trying some. Not that I have any interest in aggro skating but I like modding anything.

I considered sending you over there to look at the mods but from your earlier posts it seemed like you were looking for a more off the shelf solution. A very cool set of skates can be built using skateboard trucks. However if you want large wheels you end up with the same height issues as with Quadlines.

Cantaloupe
January 15th, 2010, 04:07 PM
Cantaloupe, with your surface descriptions being of mostly UNEVEN paving stones, NO QUAD BUILD will ever do WELL handling these surfaces -- NO MATTER HOW CUSTOMIZED FOR OUTDOORS you make it.

You are simply asking too much to think a quad build can be tweaked enough to handle these kinds of HORRIBLE SURFACE CONDITIONS. Even giant soft wheels and a LONG FORWARD MOUNT build will not be sufficient. A two-axle normal quad style skate simply CANNOT roll smoothly over uneven paving stones - period. You may have a very high tolerance for the continuous CLUNK-CLUNK of every uneven crack passing below your skates, but when your front wheels frequently stick & pitch you forward, the eventual FACE PLANTS that you encounter will soon make you see why I am so seriously trying to discourage you. You would likely be much safer on the asphalt pavement!! It is also absurd to even consider NOT WEARING PROTECTIVE GEAR just because quads seem less risky to you. You WILL hit the sidewalk eventually.

Hi Armadillo, I found some photos of the paving stones. I might be able to avoid streets like the one in the first photo but not the last two.

http://quarristone.com/images/00900-a_40292_1_g918.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5S75LIZM8GI/SfyMcMcdCOI/AAAAAAAAFf4/iCcLyiwFnl0/s400/NYLovesMe.JPG

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/477453893_818dc41763.jpg?v=0

Speaking of "FACE PLANTS", with a narrower wheel on an inline or quadline, what happens when a wheel get into a narrow furrow? I bike the same surfaces and on the odd occasion that my tire (the narrow type) falls into one the bike "skips". Arrrgh, the thought of that happening on skates. I always thought wider wheels would stop this problem.

I'll see how it goes with the need for protective gear. I just hate those wrist guards.:( I don't intend to go very fast. At this point, I just want to skate when/where I currently walk. That's the key thing or maybe even the bad thing.--If the skating idea gets too complicated or too expensive I can just keep walking.


The only NON-INLINE skate I have ever found that did fairly well clearing sudden upward changes in surface height were 3-wheel skates that had a single wide front wheel mounted INLINE style on a cantilevered carrier with urethane shock absorber letting it rise up to 1/2" on heavy impacts. The combo of the soft 80mm front wheel and shock absorbing suspension really let this skate clear uneven surface imperfections very smoothly. However, it did NOT skate much like a quad at all. The 3-wheel scheme messed up the normal quad stroke biometrics quite a lot, and they were slow & awkward.
Full Thread=>http://skatelogforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23244&highlight=3-wheel


I'm not too sure about the 3-wheeler, not quite an inline not quite a quad. I wouldn't mind trying them if I came across a pair. I understand their capabilities but they look a bit strange.


If you still feel compelled to try a quad build I will give you some pointers.
Read and view my many posts here at SLF on optimizing outdoor builds. Use high-top BASKETBALL SHOES - not Hiking Boots. Good luck, you will certainly need more than a little to have success with this project.


I'm still not discouraged. If I did get any kind of skate again they would be quads or quadlines. I see other people on quads from time to time but I'm not sure how limited they are in getting around town. I'm usually in the older parts of town where they use "ye olde paving stones". In other parts of town the sidewalks are asphalt. I'll ask next time I see someone wearing them. Until then, if I can find some package in a store, I might play around with some bits and pieces and see what I like. It will help me get an idea of what I like/want/need.

If I do decide to build some, I would appreciate your input. I won't be in my own place again for a few months so I won't be able to do anything big until then.

Cantaloupe
January 15th, 2010, 05:29 PM
The straps are replaceable. One screw holds each one on.
That's good to know.


The entire skate is fairly sturdy. I haven't managed to break anything yet. At $99 a pair during the current sale at skates.com (http://www.skates.com/Skorpion-Quadline-Urban-Roller-Skates-p/skrpq08-lg.htm&Click=150534) they are reasonably priced. See a previous post for a possible discount code if you are interested.

I'll take a look. I found them on Amazon for $89. I'll have to compare shipping cost, discounts, and see if I can get them in time.


I considered sending you over there to look at the mods but from your earlier posts it seemed like you were looking for a more off the shelf solution. A very cool set of skates can be built using skateboard trucks. However if you want large wheels you end up with the same height issues as with Quadlines.

The skateboard trucks are what I really like. Frankly, I don't really care about wheel size. I've just read on the forum that larger is better or faster. Speed isn't really my concern at this point.

cass38a
January 15th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Speaking of "FACE PLANTS", with a narrower wheel on an inline or quadline, what happens when a wheel get into a narrow furrow? I bike the same surfaces and on the odd occasion that my tire (the narrow type) falls into one the bike "skips". Arrrgh, the thought of that happening on skates. I always thought wider wheels would stop this problem.



You would ususlly just shift your weight to the other foot and lift it out:biggrin:

Armadillo
May 7th, 2010, 10:36 PM
Cantaloupe,

So where are you now on building some outdoor skates?

-Armadillo