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Nellie
June 8th, 2010, 10:04 PM
My favourite outdoor wheels, old-school 70mm Vanguard Boomerangs, are available at a really cheap price from eBay UK at the moment, if anyone in Europe or even the US (shipping is not too bad) is interested.
This is not the greatest colour, and the wheels will definitely have too much urethane on them for Armadillo, but I like them best of all outdoor wheels I've seen and tried (well, I wouldn't mind Velocity Races, but have not been able to get them here), because they were made as roller skate wheels and hence they're only 35-36 mm wide, unlike bulky skateboard wheels. They also perform better in the rain than Kryptonics, if that is important to you. Here's the link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VANGUARD-Boomerang-70mm-Quad-Roller-Skate-Wheels-Lim-/220434057693?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Skateboarding_Skating_ET&hash=item3352e4c9dd)
Personally I think they're 78a rather than 80 or more.

BananasRUS
June 9th, 2010, 01:10 PM
My favourite outdoor wheels, old-school 70mm Vanguard Boomerangs, are available at a really cheap price from eBay UK at the moment, if anyone in Europe or even the US (shipping is not too bad) is interested.
This is not the greatest colour, and the wheels will definitely have too much urethane on them for Armadillo, but I like them best of all outdoor wheels I've seen and tried (well, I wouldn't mind Velocity Races, but have not been able to get them here), because they were made as roller skate wheels and hence they're only 35-36 mm wide, unlike bulky skateboard wheels. They also perform better in the rain than Kryptonics, if that is important to you. Here's the link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VANGUARD-Boomerang-70mm-Quad-Roller-Skate-Wheels-Lim-/220434057693?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Skateboarding_Skating_ET&hash=item3352e4c9dd)
Personally I think they're 78a rather than 80 or more.

I would have bought a couple of sets of these at that price, but since I live in the US, I am unable to do so. The auction even says that it will post to the America's, but I am still unable to buy them. Also, I can't join eBay again via the UK site because it only allows this for UK addresses. :frown:

masmojo
June 9th, 2010, 03:06 PM
I would have bought a couple of sets of these at that price, but since I live in the US, I am unable to do so. The auction even says that it will post to the America's, but I am still unable to buy them. Also, I can't join eBay again via the UK site because it only allows this for UK addresses. :frown:

I have bought plenty of stuff off other overseas ebays (Italain, French, Spanish and German) and never had to worry about registering twice!? Generally, I find that one simply has to log in again (assuming you are already logged in to ebay) after you have done this both foreign and regular items will show up in your "my ebay" list!

Hope that helps and that I understood you problem correctly! :D

Snarf77
June 9th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Yup. Just log in and click "Buy it now" - works fine. I got all the way through checkout until the final "purchase". Shipping to the US is 15 pounds, double for two sets. That makes about $52 per set...seems high ish after shipping. Much better for UK residents at $36 shipped.

BananasRUS
June 10th, 2010, 12:53 AM
I have bought plenty of stuff off other overseas ebays (Italain, French, Spanish and German) and never had to worry about registering twice!? Generally, I find that one simply has to log in again (assuming you are already logged in to ebay) after you have done this both foreign and regular items will show up in your "my ebay" list!

Hope that helps and that I understood you problem correctly! :D

Yup. Just log in and click "Buy it now" - works fine. I got all the way through checkout until the final "purchase". Shipping to the US is 15 pounds, double for two sets. That makes about $52 per set...seems high ish after shipping. Much better for UK residents at $36 shipped.

Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately, I am unable to bid or buy anything in the UK on eBay. When I go to put in my User ID, the UK eBay does not recognize my User ID and/or my password as being valid ones. So, I can't do anything to change it, as they are what they are.

Thanks to both of you anyway!

I would have also bid on those Boen plates that were on eBay Au a couple of weeks back, but I ran into the same problem there, as well. Just not meant to be for me, I guess. No big deal...............

Well, I just tried again, and this time, it worked! Instead of letting my computer fill in my User ID and password for me, I just typed them both in manually instead and Viola! But, maybe the price is too high to the US..................

quadskater71
June 10th, 2010, 01:18 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I grabbed a set last night. Will be interesting to see how they compare to my Velocity 70mm. Sorry to hear some of you guys state side have trouble buying from UK. I've bought a couple of things over the years and they are great sellers.

BananasRUS
June 10th, 2010, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I grabbed a set last night. Will be interesting to see how they compare to my Velocity 70mm. Sorry to hear some of you guys state side have trouble buying from UK. I've bought a couple of things over the years and they are great sellers.

Please let us know how they compare to the Velocity 70mm's. I am really interested to see if their weight makes any difference or not.

masmojo
June 10th, 2010, 07:16 PM
I noticed the same seller also has some Pink ones!:D

quadskater71
June 11th, 2010, 06:33 AM
Please let us know how they compare to the Velocity 70mm's. I am really interested to see if their weight makes any difference or not.

Sure. When they arrive I'll give them a "back to back" and see how they perform. I wonder how well they were stored? Might be as hard as a rock. Might just fall apart the first rock I roll over! Hope not....

BananasRUS
June 11th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Sure. When they arrive I'll give them a "back to back" and see how they perform. I wonder how well they were stored? Might be as hard as a rock. Might just fall apart the first rock I roll over! Hope not....

I look forward to hearing how you do with them. I hope they work well for you and if they are any good, and a set is left, I might just buy some for myself after all.

yedaki_de
June 12th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I grabbed a set last night. Will be interesting to see how they compare to my Velocity 70mm. Sorry to hear some of you guys state side have trouble buying from UK. I've bought a couple of things over the years and they are great sellers.

Thanks also for the link. I just bought a set. Shipping to Germany is only 7 Pound.
Hopefully they are in good condition.

Johannes

Nellie
June 12th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Shipping to Germany is only 7 Pound.
Hopefully they are in good condition.
Johannes

Yes, I chose that shipping method, too :).
Well, the wheels are discoloured, but I think & hope this is not going to affect their performance. I'm probably going to Rit-dye the set I ordered.
I am really curious to hear your opinion, Johannes, because you have used so many different (skateboard) wheels that I have considered, too.

@ quadskater71: they shouldn't be 'as hard as a rock'. The green ones I've been using for a year now weren't and they must be as old as the lime wheels in the link. They weren't stored in their original (or any as far as I know) packaging, either. A friend of mine bought the pink ones and they are also nice and soft.

I hope you all won't be disappointed!!

Nellie
June 19th, 2010, 12:54 PM
. . and they're in a better condition than my green Vanguard Boomerangs were when I got them. The colour isn't all that bad, either :).
It's a shame the seller has put their price back to normal now.
http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab339/Nelli_035/Street%20Quads/DSCI0047.jpg

quadskater71
June 21st, 2010, 06:04 AM
I got mine today and they seem fine. Fading not too bad and wheels seem in good condition.

Once the rain stops here in Adelaide I'm going to do an outdoor wheel comparison test and start a new thread.

I have the following outdoor wheels and thought I would do a "back to back" and list the results.

1/ Velocity Race 70mm
2/ Velocity Race 65mm
3/ Twister 70mm
4/ Vanguard Boomerang 70mm
5/ Rolline Hydrogen 65mm
6/ Route 70's
7/ Suregrip Motion 65mm
8/ Route 62's

I've just relized I may have SEDS, as 8 sets of outdoor wheels may be a little excessive!!

OK, so what tests should I do??

Speed over a set distance.
Ride quality on the same type of surfaces.
Vibration transfer to your feet.
Grip.
Roll resistance.
Weight.
Wear.
Resistance to cutting....

Anyone think of anything else????

sidge
June 21st, 2010, 06:29 AM
The results of such testing would be very helpful since I am trying to pick out some outdoor wheels. I think I am going to order some krypto route 65 to start with.

ursle
June 21st, 2010, 02:06 PM
I have the following outdoor wheels and thought I would do a "back to back" and list the results.

1/ Velocity Race 70mm
2/ Velocity Race 65mm
3/ Twister 70mm
4/ Vanguard Boomerang 70mm
5/ Roll-line Hydrogen 65mm
6/ Route 70's
7/ Suregrip Motion 65mm
8/ Route 62's

Speed over a set distance.
Ride quality on the same type of surfaces.
Vibration transfer to your feet.
Grip.
Roll resistance.
Weight.
Wear.
Resistance to cutting....



Bravo, tough comparing the Velocity wheels with the others as they have such inferior bearings, I'm interested in the 64mm Roll-Line wheels, have you rolled them yet?
They say 80a, I wonder how they feel compared to the Route 70's or 65's as far as grip is concerned, rolling the Route 70's must be like a cloud, I have the Route 59's and they are like butter...
So it's a tough job but somebody's got to do it, thanks;)

Gero
June 21st, 2010, 06:24 PM
I'm interested in the 64mm Roll-Line wheels, have you rolled them yet?
They say 80a, I wonder how they feel compared to the Route 70's or 65's as far as grip is concerned, rolling the Route 70's must be like a cloud, I have the Route 59's and they are like butter...


I have two sets for the Roll-Line Helium with 83a, they are perfect for me, indeed best speed with low weight, not as stiff like the 70mm wheels, excellent on all normal surfaces, just on very rough streets or lots of debris they have disadvantages. Up to now my all time outdoor wheel favourite!

I also have the Velocity Race in 70mm and skated them a lot, they are my No. 2 set. Also the Route70 are with two sets in my stock, l liked them a lot in the past years but for speed and their hight weight they are not the best choice for a person of 200lbs or more.

The higher your weight the higher should be the PU on your skates outdoor (up to 85a)

Hope this helps

Cheers

Gero

Armadillo
June 21st, 2010, 07:54 PM
Bravo, tough comparing the Velocity wheels with the others as they have such inferior bearings, I'm interested in the 64mm Roll-Line wheels, have you rolled them yet?
They say 80a, I wonder how they feel compared to the Route 70's or 65's as far as grip is concerned, rolling the Route 70's must be like a cloud, I have the Route 59's and they are like butter...
So it's a tough job but somebody's got to do it, thanks;)

The Roll Line Helium and Hydrogen outdoor wheels are not suitable for every day use. Why? The combination of their big hub diameter with their 64mm OD means they have the thinnest layer of urethane between the hub and the road of any outdoor wheel, which is why they are the lightest wheels. There is also a rib that protrudes out from the hub into the urethane to lock it in place. The urethane above this rib is so thin that even small sharp rocks can cut right up through to the hub rib. Over time the wheel accumulates LOTS of deep cuts all around the wheel directly over this rib. At some point in this process the cuts will overlap and effectively divide the urethane into two separate pieces.

My own set of Heliums are already well along into this process, and I now reserve them strictly for racing duty only. They are exceptionally good wheels, but NOT in the durability category.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/Wheels/helium.jpg

-Armadillo

lharasim
June 26th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Twisters get my vote.... all and every time I roll outside...everything else is far behind!! its like rolling indoor but its outdoor...I love it!!

Armadillo
June 26th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Twisters get my vote.... all and every time I roll outside...everything else is far behind!! its like rolling indoor but its outdoor...I love it!!

You need to be clear that those are Roller Derby Twisters and not Sure Grip Twisters.
They are almost IDENTICAL to the Pacer Velocity Race wheels and were clearly made at the same factory, and to the exact same dimensions.
The RD Twisters seem just a little firmer than the V-Rs though.
Best outdoor wheel I have rolled on so far, at least on decently smooth asphalt and concrete.

-Armadillo

Armadillo
August 8th, 2010, 01:32 AM
I got mine today and they seem fine. Fading not too bad and wheels seem in good condition.

Once the rain stops here in Adelaide I'm going to do an outdoor wheel comparison test and start a new thread.

I have the following outdoor wheels and thought I would do a "back to back" and list the results.

1/ Velocity Race 70mm
2/ Velocity Race 65mm
3/ Twister 70mm
4/ Vanguard Boomerang 70mm
5/ Rolline Hydrogen 65mm
6/ Route 70's
7/ Suregrip Motion 65mm
8/ Route 62's

I've just relized I may have SEDS, as 8 sets of outdoor wheels may be a little excessive!!

OK, so what tests should I do??

Speed over a set distance.
Ride quality on the same type of surfaces.
Vibration transfer to your feet.
Grip.
Roll resistance.
Weight.
Wear.
Resistance to cutting....

Anyone think of anything else????

Hey quadskater71,

Did i miss your wheel evaluation post? Have you been able to evaluate and compare all eight set of your outdoor wheels yet? We are eager to hear the results.

Despite being the weight weenie that I am, I have finally had to acknowledge that the 70mm V-R and RD Twister wheels perform better than the 65mm. This is after completing the Chicago Inline 1/2 Marathon (quads allowed). I was doing time trial laps on a closed 1.3 mile smooth asphalt course using the 65mm wheels the month before the race. In the final week I put my 70mm wheels on and found I could could finally run sub 6 min. laps. Kept them on for the race and was quite happy to finish as the 1st quad skater. I still think that the 65mm will be faster on ultra smooth asphalt though, but there is very little of that good stuff here in Chicago.

-Armadillo

quadskater71
August 8th, 2010, 01:51 PM
It still hasn't stopped raining!! I had a roll on the Boomerangs the other night (indoor) and was surprised how good there were, but then again the velocities are pretty good indoors as well. Not like the Routes and Motions that are like skating with the brakes on!
But yes, I still plan on doing "the great outdoor wheel comparo", if the rain will just stop!!

Speed freak
May 3rd, 2011, 08:13 PM
It still hasn't stopped raining!! I had a roll on the Boomerangs the other night (indoor) and was surprised how good there were, but then again the velocities are pretty good indoors as well. Not like the Routes and Motions that are like skating with the brakes on!
But yes, I still plan on doing "the great outdoor wheel comparo", if the rain will just stop!!

has it stopped raining over there yet :-)

Speed freak
May 3rd, 2011, 08:21 PM
You need to be clear that those are Roller Derby Twisters and not Sure Grip Twisters.
They are almost IDENTICAL to the Pacer Velocity Race wheels and were clearly made at the same factory, and to the exact same dimensions.
The RD Twisters seem just a little firmer than the V-Rs though.
Best outdoor wheel I have rolled on so far, at least on decently smooth asphalt and concrete.

-Armadillo

Thats interesting, as I was hearing so much about the velocity race wheels but could not find any over here in the UK. But I have four sets of the RD twister wheels because I like them so much. knowing that the RD twisters are firmer then the Velocity's pleases me, as I weight around 275! so the firmer the better for me :-)

quadskater71
May 3rd, 2011, 11:28 PM
has it stopped raining over there yet :-)

It has!!
I was only just talking about it yesterday, so the great down under wheel comparo should be happening in the next week or so.
Once I get all the info together I'll put something together. I've also got a durometre so I'll put hardness info in as well.

laureen
May 4th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Im new here on the forum, but have visited more then a few times. Been skating very long time, but havent in about 2 years. NEED to feel the roll again. So I dusted off my 30 year old skates and oiled the bearings, need to get some new bushings, but thats a different question. I LOVE to skate outside, learn on concert, California style. along the bch. Im a recreational skater now, but use to speed skate. I would like to do some Ryhthym or Jam skating, outside, in the spring and summer. (Moved to Michigan) so my question is WHEELS! I know I want about a 62-65 mm and 78A- 85A, But can i use Skateboard wheels??? found some really kool looking one, but they are Bones Wheels
Bones STF Wheels
50mm STF Bartie...I dont know what STF is???? Thanks for any imput
Im not sure where to post, but I guess this is fine???

BananasRUS
May 4th, 2011, 02:29 AM
Im new here on the forum, but have visited more then a few times. Been skating very long time, but havent in about 2 years. NEED to feel the roll again. So I dusted off my 30 year old skates and oiled the bearings, need to get some new bushings, but thats a different question. I LOVE to skate outside, learn on concert, California style. along the bch. Im a recreational skater now, but use to speed skate. I would like to do some Ryhthym or Jam skating, outside, in the spring and summer. (Moved to Michigan) so my question is WHEELS! I know I want about a 62-65 mm and 78A- 85A, But can i use Skateboard wheels??? found some really kool looking one, but they are Bones Wheels
Bones STF Wheels
50mm STF Bartie...I dont know what STF is???? Thanks for any imput
Im not sure where to post, but I guess this is fine???

STF is short for Street Tech Formula. It is just one of Bones marketing/advertising slogans or gimmicks, IMHO.
;)
You can't normally use a skateboard wheel on quad roller skates, as the offset of the wheels are different.

laureen
May 4th, 2011, 02:36 AM
humm, thats a bumber, the skate boards wheels look very kool!

laureen
May 4th, 2011, 02:44 AM
im an artist, i do graphic art, so i guess i see the beauty of art in as well as the quility of worth. in a product. I NEED both!:)

Skateguy
May 20th, 2011, 05:34 PM
I see not mention of the newer offerings of "Shadows", "Poisons" or "Sugar" wheels. there are being used here for outdoor use with good results.

Gle8
May 21st, 2011, 03:12 PM
I see not mention of the newer offerings of "Shadows", "Poisons" or "Sugar" wheels. there are being used here for outdoor use with good results.

That's because most outdoor skaters (myself included) prefer a 70x35 or 65/66-35.

Armadillo
May 22nd, 2011, 12:16 AM
That's because most outdoor skaters (myself included) prefer a 70x35 or 65/66-35.

Agree 100% with this observation.
Outdoor wheels need to be bigger and narrower.
Even the Roll Line Helium and Hydrogen wheels, at 64mm OD, are a bit on the small side of optimum.
The 70mm OD wheels are what it really takes to go fast and maintain roll outdoors.
A 62mm by 40+mm wide wheel may have a decent outdoor urethane formula, but having too-small diameter and too-large width will cripple their performance.

-Armadillo

cass38a
May 22nd, 2011, 04:25 AM
Agree 100% with this observation.
Outdoor wheels need to be bigger and narrower.
Even the Roll Line Helium and Hydrogen wheels, at 64mm OD, are a bit on the small side of optimum.
The 70mm OD wheels are what it really takes to go fast and maintain roll outdoors.
A 62mm by 40+mm wide wheel may have a decent outdoor urethane formula, but having too-small diameter and too-large width will cripple their performance.

-Armadillo

Unless you want to go real fast around corners instead of just ploding along then you need the same width as your indoor wheels.

These skaters don't seem to to be too badly impacted by 62mm x 44mm wheels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5KDS6hDmbs&feature=share

Armadillo
May 22nd, 2011, 05:17 AM
Unless you want to go real fast around corners instead of just ploding along then you need the same width as your indoor wheels.

These skaters don't seem to to be too badly impacted by 62mm x 44mm wheels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5KDS6hDmbs&feature=share

I do not follow the point you are trying to make.
I am not evaluating skaters' performance here, it is the performance of the WHEELS that I commented about.

Good skaters will be fast on whatever they roll with, but they will also be faster on a better performance wheel.

On super smooth asphalt, wheels smaller than 70m OD may perform well enough, but on average asphalt, 70mm will outperform 65mm.

Anyone who has skated the 70mm Velocity Race or RD Twister wheels will tell you that, on normal asphalt, they are significantly FASTER than the 65mm versions of the same two wheels. Because I am a weight weenie, I tried to convince myself that the 65mm were just as fast, but when I repeatedly alternated between them doing closely timed 10-mile time trials, the 70mm gave significantly better times - EVERY TIME. I sure wish I had not sold all my 70mm Velocity race wheels before I came to this realization!!! DAMN!!!

As far as wheel width, for mainly straight ahead outdoor skating, there is NO NEED for a wheel lip. It will only slow you down. I am not talking sprint races on a tight loop with sharp turns here. I am talking distance skating on mainly straight ahead routes -- 10K, 1/2 marathon, full marathon, etc.
For this kind of outdoor skating, wheels in the 33mm-40mm without lips are the best. Heavier skaters will tend to do better at the wider end of this range.
The rolling resistance of outdoor wheels starts to get too high as they go wider than 40mm and they will steal your momentum. I prefer the 33mm width of the Roll lines or the 35mm width of the V-Rs and RD Twisters.

-Armadillo

cojaco61
May 22nd, 2011, 06:39 AM
Unless you want to go real fast around corners instead of just ploding along then you need the same width as your indoor wheels.

These skaters don't seem to to be too badly impacted by 62mm x 44mm wheels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5KDS6hDmbs&feature=share

100%

My Crucianis are 62mm x 42mm wide. Best outdoor wheel I have skated on.

I wonder if Armadillo even watched the video link?

cass38a
May 22nd, 2011, 08:16 AM
100%

My Crucianis are 62mm x 42mm wide. Best outdoor wheel I have skated on.

I wonder if Armadillo even watched the video link?

He can't read, REAL FAST AROUND CORNERS was IMO pretty clear in my post.

For what it is worth Armidillo I do the majority of my outdoor skating on 70 x 33mm and have used them with limited results in races, I stopped using them after 8 races.

In a race against other skaters (as opposed to a solo time trial or if you have been dropped by he pack) it is the the performace in the sprints which determins your position in the pack and the final the result. The tall narrow wheels while they roll well they let you down when you need to sprint, especially if you need to sprint around the last one or two corners before the finish line:biggrin:

That was the point I was trying to make.................... If he watched the video and noticed the position of the Gusseppie's in the blue jerseys he would see it all comes down to the sprints.

Gle8
May 22nd, 2011, 02:05 PM
He can't read, REAL FAST AROUND CORNERS was IMO pretty clear in my post.

For what it is worth Armidillo I do the majority of my outdoor skating on 70 x 33mm and have used them with limited results in races, I stopped using them after 8 races.

In a race against other skaters (as opposed to a solo time trial or if you have been dropped by he pack) it is the the performace in the sprints which determins your position in the pack and the final the result. The tall narrow wheels while they roll well they let you down when you need to sprint, especially if you need to sprint around the last one or two corners before the finish line:biggrin:

That was the point I was trying to make.................... If he watched the video and noticed the position of the Gusseppie's in the blue jerseys he would see it all comes down to the sprints.


You are talking about a very specific application.

For a race of that nature (or for outdoor tracking) a wider wheel may be preferred. But for the majority of outdoor applications, I prefer a tall/narrow wheel.

It also depends on the surface. On a varied surface outdoors, a taller wheel absorbs more irregularities/cracks/twigs/etc, making it roll better and robbing you of less energy.

A smaller wheel is always going to be better for a sprint. And a taller wheel is always going to be better over distance (unless that distance is all uphill, all the way).

If I were in the race in the video, I'd be wearing my 58x44 Deanos. But that's only for that particular outdoor application.

Altazero
May 25th, 2011, 02:03 PM
I *was* in the race in the video and if memory serves me (it was nearly 30 years ago) I was probably using some 62mm Galaxy road wheels, or perhaps a set of 59-60mm white Gyros. As can be seen in many of these videos it was also raining during this meet, which of course changes everything :-)

Seriously though, the factors that influence wheel performance (hardness, rebound, hub, diameter, width, etc.) are well known. Depending on what you're trying to do at the time your choice in wheels will vary dramatically.

Personally, when racing, wheel selection was a critical equipment consideration, but racecraft (i.e. pack dynamics and strategy) and my own technique/fitness were far more important.

Armadillo
May 28th, 2011, 01:14 AM
He can't read, REAL FAST AROUND CORNERS was IMO pretty clear in my post.

For what it is worth Armidillo I do the majority of my outdoor skating on 70 x 33mm and have used them with limited results in races, I stopped using them after 8 races.

In a race against other skaters (as opposed to a solo time trial or if you have been dropped by he pack) it is the the performace in the sprints which determins your position in the pack and the final the result. The tall narrow wheels while they roll well they let you down when you need to sprint, especially if you need to sprint around the last one or two corners before the finish line:biggrin:

That was the point I was trying to make.................... If he watched the video and noticed the position of the Gusseppie's in the blue jerseys he would see it all comes down to the sprints.

If I watched a 17 year old inline skating race, they would all be on under 76mm wheels. In 2011 they win races on 110mm wheels. Bigger wheels are no handicap for inline racers, so why should they be for quad racers.
The 49mm hub diameter 70mm by 35mm wide QUAD wheels are even lighter than than most of the smaller and wider quad wheels, so I don't see why they should slow you down in a sprint. Explain the principle of small wheels go faster please??

-Armadillo

cass38a
May 28th, 2011, 01:42 AM
Real fast around CORNERS. Read it again, real fast around CORNERS and one more time just in case you still havent got it, real fast around CORNERS

Inline skates lean over so the push is always directed thru the centre of the wheel. Quad skates are different you need a low centre of gravity and wide wheels to be able to push hard thru the corners and not hold back for fear of the skates tipping over or sliding, there is always a compromise with every wheel between roll, grip, comfort and wear and no wheel is perfect for every situation.

Read my posts and I think you will see I said that for a long distance time trial the tall narrow wheels are the way to go and that I skate on them a lot of the time when I do a distance skate.

We have my 200 meter time trails measured by electronic timing equipment so I do know what set ups get my best times.

Test it for yourself, set up a 100 meter distance with a corner at the half way mark and time your sprints thru it, do it on your silly real high quads with inline wheels then do it on your 35 x 70 then on some 44 x 65 and you will see the difference.

When you race you get the benefit of being able to draft for the majority of the race and but you need to be able to keep up when there is a sprint during the race and win the last 200 if you want to win and this is where your tall wheels let you down.

Armadillo
May 28th, 2011, 04:13 AM
Real fast around CORNERS. Read it again, real fast around CORNERS and one more time just in case you still havent got it, real fast around CORNERS

Inline skates lean over so the push is always directed thru the centre of the wheel. Quad skates are different you need a low centre of gravity and wide wheels to be able to push hard thru the corners and not hold back for fear of the skates tipping over or sliding, there is always a compromise with every wheel between roll, grip, comfort and wear and no wheel is perfect for every situation.

Read my posts and I think you will see I said that for a long distance time trial the tall narrow wheels are the way to go and that I skate on them a lot of the time when I do a distance skate.

We have my 200 meter time trails measured by electronic timing equipment so I do know what set ups get my best times.

Test it for yourself, set up a 100 meter distance with a corner at the half way mark and time your sprints thru it, do it on your silly real high quads with inline wheels then do it on your 35 x 70 then on some 44 x 65 and you will see the difference.

When you race you get the benefit of being able to draft for the majority of the race and but you need to be able to keep up when there is a sprint during the race and win the last 200 if you want to win and this is where your tall wheels let you down.

I am not doubting your experience that indicates 70mm gives less speed for you, I am simply questioning WHY. I know that 70 roll better and steal less energy on asphalt, so what is their problem in the corners? Do they raise your plate too high above the ground for peak push force? Do they slip out in the corners? What functional problem does the taller and narrower wheel trigger for you in the cornering?

I can't believe that just raising the axle up a few mm is going to slow you down through the corners so much. Perhaps it is just a matter of getting used to the different geometry and adjusting your push accordingly? I can see where the 70 mm will accelerate less well and this could impact performance on short sprints.

-Armadillo

cass38a
May 28th, 2011, 06:46 AM
Quad skates are different you need a low centre of gravity and wide wheels to be able to push hard thru the corners and not hold back for fear of the skates tipping over or sliding, there is always a compromise with every wheel between roll, grip, comfort and wear and no wheel is perfect for every situation.



You should really read this stuff before you post.

Why do you have trouble believing that a few mm make a difference?

You constantly tell the world that a few grams makes a difference even though it is only going to effect the overall weight by 1 - 2% of the skate and a mm of yellow cushion sandwiced into a cushion stack can make a el-cheapo plate perform like a $300 plate.

Why would a change of around 25% in wheel width and 10% in diameter not make a difference?

Armadillo
May 28th, 2011, 08:24 AM
You should really read this stuff before you post.

Why do you have trouble believing that a few mm make a difference?

You constantly tell the world that a few grams makes a difference even though it is only going to effect the overall weight by 1 - 2% of the skate and a mm of yellow cushion sandwiced into a cushion stack can make a el-cheapo plate perform like a $300 plate.

Why would a change of around 25% in wheel width and 10% in diameter not make a difference?

You seem excessively compelled toward disparaging and misrepresenting my results at optimizing skate builds. Few speed skaters I know prefer a heavier skate, especially when the lighter one works just as well, or even better.

Just because I ASK WHY does not mean I am having trouble believing anything. If you could offer up some explanations that made sense, I would certainly be willing to accept them. Since I am not a sprinting kind of an outdoor skater, I do not have any preconceived notions of what special requirements this kind of skating demands from outdoor wheels. If the smaller OD wheel means you get the strongest possible push stroke, then just state that as your assessment.

The comparison of gaining optimized performance by shaving a few grams from skate weight versus changing wheel dimensions, is not that helpful or sensible. There are different principles involved.

The 70mm wheel diameter only raises you up about 6% higher than a 62mm. The height change is radius related , not diameter.
Why do you stop at 62mm OD, why not drop down to 58m? An even better push stroke might result? Why not go wider than 44mm too? You have not explained how come these specific wheel dimensions are the magic numbers for optimum speed.

I can see in another thread where Cruciani wheels are wide, but they also run the hub width out all the way out to the edge of the urethane. This makes sense for an outdoor speed wheel, where a protruding lip would not help speed. However, I still don's see why the 40+mm width is needed? Indoor speed skaters here use Atom Strokers Slim version and other slim wheels with good results. So why are slims OK indoors but no good outdoors?

-Armadillo

cass38a
May 28th, 2011, 09:20 AM
I never said 62 x 44 was the magic number, just better for going fast around a corner, all wheels are a compromise between a number of factors (one of these factors is what is available from the manufactures).

Perhaps 65 x 42 is better I don't know or care as I don,t think they can be had and who knows a 65mm wide wheel may kick a$$ but you would have other factors like clipping the wheels togeter and major drag to contend with.

I have done time trails on 62 x 40, 62 x 44, 70 x 44 and 70 x 34 and my best results are on the 62 x 44. On the wider wheels I am able to cross over powerfully right thru the corners where the narrow wheels do not provide the stability to do this.

I skate a lot more Klms on the 70 x 34 than any other wheels and they are my favorites so I don't think its in my head that they let me down in a fast corner. Some pretty good skaters who make me look like a beginner have made the same assestment.

Cruciani wheels come in a few different flavors and not all run without a lip, I dont know which ones dont have a lip (perhaps you can enlighten me) the the 12 spoke ones in my cupboard certainly have a lip. The fastest times set in Australia in the last 2 years have been set on wheels with a lip.

I would bet my left testicle that when the USA quad nationals are run this year there won't be many narrow wheels on the track and all the big guns are on 62mm X 40+mm wide wheels despite your assurances that the slim wheels are being used with good results (results for me means actual results).

As I said earlier you should put your tall slims to the time trail test and see for yourself.

cass38a
July 25th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I would bet my left testicle that when the USA quad nationals are run this year there won't be many narrow wheels on the track and all the big guns are on 62mm X 40+mm wide wheels despite your assurances that the slim wheels are being used with good results (results for me means actual results)

How did I go Dillo? Did the narrows get any wins?

Armadillo
July 27th, 2011, 01:49 AM
How did I go Dillo? Did the narrows get any wins?

I don't know - that damn web stream video would not play anything but a black screen with spinning circle of dots for me. Never got to see any winners and what they were rolling on.

As far as the longer distance races where turns are less frequent, I completed the Chicago Inline 1/2 Marathon on Sun rolling with Twister 70mm wheels. Raining for whole race and road very wet. Lots of wheel slip. 3.5 miles into race I hit a deep puddle in a fast turn and went down - never skated in rain before. Broke my left wrist, but got up quickly and continued to chase the only quad skater now ahead of me by 100 yards.

Chased him down and passed him just past the half way point. His too-small wheels were clearly holding him back, and if he had Twisters he would likely have beat me.

I was 1st quad finisher again this year in 59:54. 14th overall & 1st place in age 61+ group

-Armadillo

Gero
July 27th, 2011, 04:08 PM
I was 1st quad finisher again this year in 59:54. 14th overall & 1st place in age 61+ group

Respect! Well Done, Dillo!

Armadillo
July 28th, 2011, 06:18 AM
Respect! Well Done, Dillo!

Thanks, I was really focused with my training intensity geared toward breaking 60min this year, but with the rain and the fall I felt sure it was not going to happen. Kind of surprised myself as I sprinted to the finish line, just beating the clock by 6 seconds!
-Armadillo