PDA

View Full Version : Outdoor Saktes Upgrade Advice


Carly
May 24th, 2011, 09:28 PM
Hi Everyone,

I need some advice regarding outdoor skates upgrade as previously discussed in earlier thread this month, I'm in the process of upgrading my skates.
I've decided on the following...

1. Move from hockey boot mould type shoes (old Roces) onto the shoe type (i.e. Sure-Grip) type shoe, this has to be leather as it will last longer. Reason is I find them more and more restricting as I improve, also I don't lace up the boot all the way up.

2. I'm 6' 1" and 15st or about 210lbs in old money so Nylon plates are out the question as they flex, as I've recently discovered even with hockey/jump bars fitted the flex is under the boot.

3. Based in the UK and I'm in my 40's as previously mentioned although I skate outdoors it's only in designated areas, concrete, tarmac etc but hopefully indoor roller disco as well no jumping hard speed skating but cruising...:p

Now here's the interesting bit... :confused:
I've contacted at least three or four different retailers regarding Sure-Grip Rebel Invaders and got different answers.
Some say the Invader plates are too aggressive for outdoor leisure skating or you may need to order a longer plate otherwise you'll end up leaning too far forward and will suffer back pain :frown:

Now I've been in contact via email with Sure-Grip and I understand the shorter plate due to the longer wheelbase with the DA45's compared to regular size plate of similar size.
But I've also been told if I'm looking for a more upright position these might not be suitable.
So I may need to go for another type, but metal it must be...:confused:

Also the Sure-Grip website informs boot sizing for men will match your normal shoe sizing, so I think I'm OK there...
My partner has told me if you can benefit from better skates then go for it with my 200 budget, I must say all the retailers have been very helpful, so it's not all bad they just making sure I know all the options.

Reserector
May 24th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Hi Everyone,


Now here's the interesting bit... :confused:
I've contacted at least three or four different retailers regarding Sure-Grip Rebel Invaders and got different answers.
Some say the Invader plates are too aggressive for outdoor leisure skating or you may need to order a longer plate otherwise you'll end up leaning too far forward and will suffer back pain :frown:


I strongly dissagree based on my personal experience. I have skated both standard length and short-forward outdoors. I wouldn't give you the time of day for the standard mount after skating the short forward. Having the rear axle under your heel, instead of behind it, is a real advantage both indoors and out.

Stormi skates Rebel Invaders indoor and out, if that helps.
I would suggest the black boot over the colors because abraision will show up more obviously than (I suspect) the black will.

cass38a
May 24th, 2011, 10:13 PM
I would suggest a football (soccer) boot, should be easy to source in your neck of the woods and a "standard" length plate mounted as far forward as possible.

Spend a week or so going thru this subforum before you buy anything, plenty of good advice is already on this outdoor forum.

Carly
May 24th, 2011, 10:14 PM
Hi Reserector,
Thank you for replying to my email, I'm just reading your review regarding the SG Invaders DA45's.
How is your son getting on with them..? :rolleyes:

Armadillo
May 25th, 2011, 03:35 AM
What kind of outdoor skating do you plan to do?
How much difference between your Indoor and Outdoor plate builds and their setup/performance can you tolerate?

There are nylon plates that are plenty sturdy enough to handle your weight. Nova plates have fiberglass reinforced nylon and come with metal trucks and sturdy 7mm axles. If you think your your boot sole flexes too much, just glue a thin sheet of carbon fiber laminate (or plywood) to them.
Screw mount will be stronger than this velcro concept though, for sure.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/ReynoldsLitesVelcro/IMG_3499.jpg

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/Puma/IMG_4005.jpg

The PICs below show my current build project. I do not suggest you use a slider though.


http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/Puma/IMG_4002.jpg

These Puma shoes have a stiff plastic sole and the carbon sheet makes them into a poor man's Bont. Carbon material cost is $30US and leather shoes less than $60US. They are also very light.

Your outdoor skate, at least the front axle, certainly needs to be mounted forward, and for both safety and max speed , some say that the further forward the better. A DA-45 short IMO is not your best choice. Short wheelbase plates steal rolling energy and reduce the power of your stroke. I prefer my rear axle further back than the Aussie style mount:
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/RRLedford/Emerica2Carbon/IMG_3716.jpg

-Armadillo

Reserector
May 25th, 2011, 04:37 AM
Hi Reserector,
Thank you for replying to my email, I'm just reading your review regarding the SG Invaders DA45's.
How is your son getting on with them..? :rolleyes:

He skates very naturally in them. By that I mean that he can turn, spin, go backward, and chase friends in all directions without thinking about the skates. It is as if he were running around on sneakers.
He used to slide out, trip, and stumble with the SA standard length Invaders. He went from an 8" wheel base SA to a 6.7" DA and is remarkably better as a result.

He has told me of situations he has gotten into where he felt he would crash, but skated out of it on the Rebel Invaders. My experiences switching to my XK-4 DA45s were the same.

But as cass38a stated, you could spend a week reading up on the subject. Mine is only one scenario.

Carly
May 25th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Hi Armadillo,
Thanks for the reply I just like to cruise around no jumps speed or sliding, I think we are limited to what's available regarding choices.
I'm looking at the SG range at the moment, I could also try overseas US retailers the mod you do with carbon fibre is interesting. I would like to have at least three different plates trucks etc with at least one metal.
I noticed your plates are not SF type also, I will post picture of my current skate later today to give you some idea of why I need to upgrade.

cass38a
May 25th, 2011, 12:01 PM
Sure Grip Cyclone NTS DA45 with Flips:D:D Forward mount on a footy boot and you will be a very happy skater indoors or out.

Armadillo
May 25th, 2011, 12:09 PM
Hi Armadillo,
Thanks for the reply I just like to cruise around no jumps speed or sliding, I think we are limited to what's available regarding choices.
I'm looking at the SG range at the moment, I could also try overseas US retailers the mod you do with carbon fibre is interesting. I would like to have at least three different plates trucks etc with at least one metal.
I noticed your plates are not SF type also, I will post picture of my current skate later today to give you some idea of why I need to upgrade.

For this kind of skating, what cass38a suggested, to do a forward mount standard length, also makes sense to me.
You are correct that all my outdoor mounts are more LONG, because I prefer to keep my rear axle positioned at about the same location as the front one gets shifted forward, to better handle the realities of skating outdoors.


-Armadillo

Carly
May 25th, 2011, 01:49 PM
So when you say standard mount do you mean what the manufacture recommends.
Example : Sure-Grip recommends for size 11 men's, plate size 7 invader? :rolleyes:

Reserector
May 25th, 2011, 02:02 PM
So when you say standard mount do you mean what the manufacture recommends.
Example : Sure-Grip recommends for size 11 men's, plate size 7 invader? :rolleyes:

This may help: Plate size info. Standard and short, plus S-G's 2011 chart. (http://southernskater.com/Thread-Skate-Plate-Sizing-Chart-Standard-and-Short)

Carly
May 25th, 2011, 09:20 PM
Here's an example of what we've always considered to be the norm in the UK, well it was for us who are long in the tooth as regards to skating.

http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=331&pictureid=2385

Notice the length of the plate which I think is a bit too long, I've also been looking at soccer boots to see if I can fit or get it fitted to the plates and try it out.
But I'm really impressed with the Sure-Grip range.

Sorry forgot to mention, they are size 11's, the wheels I use are the Kryptonics True 65mm Ok for skating around.

cass38a
May 25th, 2011, 10:48 PM
For an outdoor skate the wheelbase you have looks about right (perhaps a little bit long as its hard to guess what your foot size would be in those astronaught boots) but it needs to go forward about an inch.

Dont use the charts to choose the plate size. Measure the distance along the ground from the back of your big toe where it joins your foot and the inside ankle bone, that is the wheelbase you want.

Once you know your wheelbase you use this to size your plate, most of the charts convert the wheelbase for you.

Once you have worked out your wheelbase (by measuring your foot) measure your old skates and you will get a better picture.

Gero
May 26th, 2011, 08:22 AM
I don't like nore understand why all the UK Skaters wear these Roces or Bauer Plastic Boots on plastic Plates???

I was curious and tried it about 4 years ago and ordered a complete Roces setup... it was rubbish from the boot to the wheels.

@Carly, are you going to Goodwood in mid August? I have the same size than you and maybe you would like to try different material on your feet? You're welcome to test a bit...

Cheers

Gero

Carly
May 26th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Hi Gero,

Thank you for the input on the thread, as to why UK skaters consider my type of skate to be the norm I think the answer maybe one of the universes mysteries. :D
Are you going to the Goodwood Roller Marathon on the 14th August?
I didn't know the event was happening this year but found this website 'http://www.goodwoodmarathon.co.uk/'.
I'm not sure I can make it but if I can I will give you my contact details, it would be great to meet people from the forum.
As for quad-skate parts and availability I'm still looking at various websites, we have Skate Attack based in North London which they are very good but I've found cheaper elsewhere.
Next holiday I book will be to the US and I'll be visiting some of their skate shops, and wouldn't be supprised if I pick up one or two items. :wink:
Although my current skates are a bit restrictive now the more I tweak and adjust things my skating does improve, turns and backward to forward changes do get easier.
I'm thinking of getting a cheap soccer boot as suggested and converting that to be fitted on the plates. :rolleyes:

Elysarian
May 26th, 2011, 12:18 PM
I can't answer why we started using converted ice hockey boots for sure but when I started out (mid 80's) Bauer and Roces were widely available and relatively cheap (Bauer turbo were 70 a pair, Roces were around 60), also, if you wanted to fit in at the rink, you HAD to be on Bauer.

Now things are slowly changing, I see more leather/leather style boots at our rink each time i go.

Though a lot of kids seem to want skates that are like their parents' (and we tend to stick with what we know - my avatar is evidence of this!).

If the good stuff was more available here maybe we'd change but as it stands the supply/demand equation is still biased toward converted hockey skates (hopefully the growth in roller derby will help to change this?).

Carly
May 28th, 2011, 09:59 PM
Hi Everyone,
Just a quick update regarding the progress for upgrading or improving my skates... :rolleyes:

I purchased a pair of Slazenger trainers from a sports outlet in the UK, after looking at websites and visiting shops I examined the soles to see how stiff they were and price.
Soccer 'cleat' shoes were one option but I managed to find these, used my current playmaker plates with ADC12 trucks and Kryptonics True 65mm 78a outdoor wheels.
The shoes were 15...
http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=331&pictureid=2400
http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=331&pictureid=2400

I followed the instructions regarding positioning the plate and measured not once, twice... maybe ten times :o before I marked the pilot holes.
Also great advice as regards to moving the plate forward which although I only skate outdoors on smooth tarmac I hit a twig.
There was a sharp snap sound but no jolt or stumbling forwards... :p
As for the jump from high to low ankle boot, my partner said before I went out the door that looks risky without ankle support...
I said to her it was this type of shoe I learnt to skate 'the old 80's retro style' so I set off... :frown:
Wow! :biggrin:
Much better I have to confess I was a bit tentertive for the first 5-10 minutes but my feet went where I wanted them to go. :)
I noticed that my left heel I could feel it move in the shoe slightly but that's what happens in all my footware and previous skates.
I think I might go for a slightly softer cushions as the plates although nylon they are very stiff.

Thanks to everyone in the thread who recommended me to do a little research and try some mods before moving onto next stage of purchasing new plates, boots etc... :rolleyes:

Stormi
May 29th, 2011, 02:08 AM
Stormi skates Rebel Invaders indoor and out, if that helps.
I would suggest the black boot over the colors because abraision will show up more obviously than (I suspect) the black will.

Actually, they are just Probe plates, not Invader. But I do skate pretty much the same set-up indoors and outdoors, except for wheels :)

Banzai
May 31st, 2011, 07:55 PM
Here's an example of what we've always considered to be the norm in the UK, well it was for us who are long in the tooth as regards to skating.

http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=331&pictureid=2385

Notice the length of the plate which I think is a bit too long, I've also been looking at soccer boots to see if I can fit or get it fitted to the plates and try it out.
But I'm really impressed with the Sure-Grip range.

Sorry forgot to mention, they are size 11's, the wheels I use are the Kryptonics True 65mm Ok for skating around.

I laugh every time I see one of these set ups. more so because that boot design is pretty much what inline skates looked like 15 years ago.
There are MUCH better designs now!!!:biggrin:

Carly
June 1st, 2011, 12:05 AM
I laugh every time I see one of these set ups. more so because that boot design is pretty much what inline skates looked like 15 years ago.
There are MUCH better designs now!!!:biggrin:

Yes I Agree!
Kinda like what Robocop would wear don't you think... :D
If anyone gets a chance or you probably have, these still command a heafty price on ebay in the UK, especially the Bauers vintage stuff.
For me the shoe type has been a better option, although I could make some improvements like maybe stiffen the nylon plates I've put mixed softer bushings with some firmer ones.
The soft ones go on first then the harder type on top, I can skate better with the trucks not so firmly tightened.
As cass38a recommended to try and source some info and try to fit shoe type and see how I get on has really helped THANKS... ;).
Interesting point Armadillo makes about stiffening up by inserting plywood or carbon, seems weired that no company offers these as an accessory to fit onto skates.
So far these work Ok because I'm not doing any major jumps, slides, hockey stops etc they'll last a bit, I plan to visit the US next year if all goes well and I my partner agrees to I'll track down a skate shop and try and buy the SG Invader Skates while I'm there.
I could probably pickup a pair plus some accessories for a bit cheaper than in the UK plus a nice holiday...:) :p
SORRY FORGOT TO MENTION!
The Robocop boots are in the shed, I just use trainers (Seekers) fitted to the plates...