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Pyrettablze
January 9th, 2012, 12:10 AM
I am curretnly skating a short forward mount. I have been using gumball toe stops, but with my short forward I dont like how bulky they are. What kind of toe stops are good for a short forward? Does anyone use dance plugs with their short forward? I also work at a rink and really like using dance plugs there. But I dont know how they would work with derby and toe starts. Advice?

Bondagekitten
January 9th, 2012, 12:25 AM
I use gumdrops and find them good, they are a bit smaller looking to my eye compaired to the gumballs most people round me tend to use. Others like the suregrip webs but have heard that colours other than black have been problimatic in the past with tearing.

Pyrettablze
January 9th, 2012, 12:34 AM
Thanks! I will look into those! I am just sick of getting my toe stop caught on the floor

Nathan_
January 9th, 2012, 12:39 AM
I use gumdrops and find them good, they are a bit smaller looking to my eye compaired to the gumballs most people round me tend to use. Others like the suregrip webs but have heard that colours other than black have been problimatic in the past with tearing.

The Gumball and Gumdrop are the same exact size.

The Snyder #18 (http://www.derbysmack.com/snyder-18-toe-stops.html) toe stop is about 30% smaller than the Gumball/Gumdrops.
http://www.derbysmack.com/snyder-18-toe-stops.html

I would suggest a black mini-gripper toe stop, if your looking for something a bit smaller or the Snyder..

Pyrettablze
January 9th, 2012, 01:06 AM
I wonder what the smallest toe stop is. I am kinda having a hard time figuring out how to even do jammer starts with my toe stops so far back. but at the same time they still get in the way

Nathan_
January 9th, 2012, 01:21 AM
The Snyder 18 is fairly small. I'll snap some pictures tomorrow when I'm in the photo lab.

Bondagekitten
January 9th, 2012, 01:35 AM
cheers Nathan, must be something about it that makes it look smaller then. I use mine screwed in as far as I can.

Was considering changing when these wear out :)

MANY_SkatingDave
January 9th, 2012, 04:04 AM
Hi,

Here is one link to some pictures of toe stops, yet not jam plugs and a few more. http://www.bruisedboutique.com/onlinestore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=77_98

http://www.rollergirlskates.com/toe-stops.aspx

http://www.lowpriceskates.com/toe-stops.aspx

Someplace I have a better link that I posted maybe years back that included jam plugs.

There are teams that do not use the toe stop for jammer starts. They actually slow you down yet create the impression of fast start. YET if your team_mates just have to do them then you got to get ones of a sufficient size to run on. You can't really run on those small jam plugs.

http://www.planetonwheels.com/store/Jam-Plugs.html

So if you have to use them to please your team pick something low as all get out and pretty wide.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

Pyrettablze
January 9th, 2012, 05:55 AM
So with out the toe stop, how do they do jammer starts? I may have to try that out instead. With my plate so far back I feel like I run on my boot sometimes. As you can tell I am still pretty new to the short forward mount and am the first person I know skating on it. So I am ready to take any advice i can get. (-:

VioletBuckle
January 9th, 2012, 08:12 AM
So with out the toe stop, how do they do jammer starts? I may have to try that out instead. With my plate so far back I feel like I run on my boot sometimes. As you can tell I am still pretty new to the short forward mount and am the first person I know skating on it. So I am ready to take any advice i can get. (-:

Even with a short forward mount Gumball toe stops should not be getting in your way. There could be several things going on here so indulge me in asking you some questions about your skate:)

1) what size and kind of boot do you have?

2) what size and kind of plate do you have?
Many new DA/45 plates are now making plates with a shorter front so toe stops don't drag.

3) have you adjusted the toe stops on your plate to make them shorter and go further up into the plate?

4) how and when are the stops getting in your way? What are you doing with your foot/skate and where is it dragging?

Assuming the plate was mounted correctly and you have made all attempts to adjust your toe stops to the farthest they will sit in the plate, I would say you don't necessarily need smaller toe stops just shorter ones.

The Moonwalker toe stops are smaller but still wide enough for starts.

Gumball also has short toe stops and the Gumdrop toe stops are sufficient for starts and stops playing derby although I really think having wide grippy stops like the Gumball are best for derby.

I would post some pics of your plate mount for Doc to look at and assess. Several things could be going on here. It could be something as simple as getting stops with a shorter thread so they will go up further or it could be an issue like your plate has offset toe stops which are great but maybe you aren't used to it? Or it could be that who ever mounted your plate, didn't give you a short enough wheel base plate and took a standard size plate and just moved it forward. This would cause the hanger where your toe stop sits in to be located to far forward on your boot. It could be that you have plate that is notoriously long, even with a shorter than standard plate, and might need a different plate altogether to make a short forward work.

We will get to the bottom of this :D
You can also do a faster jammer start with minimum use of toe stops by studying a hockey power skating vid or hockey sideways starts vid on YouTube.

This vid is great for learning explosive power skating off the line. Less use of toe stops can be used on quads with this kind of start. Still, it REALLY will save your from injury to have the right stops but if your axle/wheel placement is far enough forward you can run on the inside edge of your inside wheels.
I have noticed skaters like Atomatrix and DeRanged, who are both world renowned speed skaters, often drive off of the jammer line much like this V or Diamond hockey start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvYCKOKyPA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sideways starts: A combination of running cross overs off the line then into the hockey diamond power skating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itG-Qv1iAeQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Those kind of starts can also be applied to quad skating:biggrin:
They are even easier with a slim derby wheel with a lip. That speed lip gives your skate/wheels an edge similar ice skates. If you have super grippy fat wheels with no lip, this might be a little harder.

TLicalzi
January 9th, 2012, 11:16 AM
I just switched to Moonwalkers and like them just fine. Gumballs are nice but I had trouble with them rubbing my wheels.

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 11:38 AM
Sorry, not read this whole thread, but here's my response to the OP :)

I've skated derby practice, reffed and bouted without toestops in the last 3 months (just with Reidell-brand jam plugs, which are rubbish).

Stuff thats not so hot without:

Toestop starts; I can duck walk off the line no problem, just the first two strides are not quite as fast.

Tomahawks (aka. derby stops); sure you can powerslide and spin back and on the track no problem, but it takes a lot more effort which would be better put into other things when coming back in play.

OPR without toestops makes my ankles hurt because of these two factors, and in a bout it takes the edge off me. It's also handy to have stops for scrum starts, regardless of where you are in them, and for blocking while skating in reverse.

So, short answer - practice without stops is excellent (improves your footwork like crazy) but do 'live' stuff with stops ;) IMO everyone should skate without stops for at least a month twice a year!

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 11:41 AM
So with out the toe stop, how do they do jammer starts?Duck walk (or rather, duck run!), or side-stepping run. I'm pretty hot on the former, need to practice the latter!

jimduong
January 9th, 2012, 12:02 PM
If you're looking for a smaller toestop, the small Snyder that Nathan recommended would be the way to go. Those do not have a short stem option, so if you can't seem to get them far enough into the plate to your liking, you may want to find someone handy with metalwork to shorten the stem for you.

I personally don't skate with stops but I did at one time and see the advantages, not all about gaining a fast start but stopping and starting rapidly, as well as aiding in recovery. If you are curious about going with jam plugs, just do it! It's one of those things that you won't really grasp until you try but if you do, it's difficult to go back and forth. You need to commit to it but you'll find ways of doing everything you need to without them.

I have a feeling that your stops are just more forward than you are used to and by being patient and taking some time to adjust, you should be just fine. Since you skated with jam plugs previously, your brain/feet are used to having that extra little bit of clearance, so you're still skating the way you're used to. Just be sure to stick with one or the other, and stick with it in all disciplines of skating (derby/rink/rec/etc.) until you get used to it.

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 12:18 PM
... it's difficult to go back and forth. ...I find it less difficult than swapping between skates with a different heel height, action or wheelbase ... but sometimes I do forget they're there when I have them!

jimduong
January 9th, 2012, 12:27 PM
I guess when all of your skates have the same action, wheelbase, and heel height that's not so big of a deal ;)

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 05:32 PM
I guess when all of your skates have the same action, wheelbase, and heel height that's not so big of a deal ;)Your argument is valid, have a cupcake.

http://www.mychocolate.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/cookie-monster-cupcake.jpg

Speedy Dave
January 9th, 2012, 06:00 PM
I skate short forward with gumballs and have no problems.

Without seeing a pic of your set-up it hard to give advice, but 1. You could screw the stop further in or 2. Your skating technique could do with some work and you're toe flicking on to your stop.

Pyrettablze
January 9th, 2012, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=VioletBuckle;566250]Even with a short forward mount Gumball toe stops should not be getting in your way. There could be several things going on here so indulge me in asking you some questions about your skate:)

1) what size and kind of boot do you have?
I have the riedell 122 boot
2) what size and kind of plate do you have?
Many new DA/45 plates are now making plates with a shorter front so toe stops don't drag.
XK-DA45
3) have you adjusted the toe stops on your plate to make them shorter and go further up into the plate?
I screwed them in as far as they will go, I have the sort post Gumballs
4) how and when are the stops getting in your way? What are you doing with your foot/skate and where is it dragging?
When Get down low and cross over on the corners and when I practice jam skating and am getting up on my front two wheels.

Mainly the problem is when i cheat on derby with Dance/Jam skating that i have a problem. lol

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 07:56 PM
I skate short forward with gumballs and have no problems.How you getting on with them BTW? You looked at home running around on your stops on Saturday!

Mainly the problem is when i cheat on derby with Dance/Jam skating that i have a problem. lolThen pull your stops out for dance, or do what I did and just sort another set of skates for it. Can't do good dance with stops in, can't skate derby well with a hard cushion setup ;)

Speedy Dave
January 9th, 2012, 08:25 PM
How you getting on with them BTW? You looked at home running around on your stops on Saturday!

You know skates are skates, if they have wheels I'll skate them.

Toestops have helped with some things, but hurt my top speed, luckily I don't really hit it on a derby track.

MANY_SkatingDave
January 9th, 2012, 08:51 PM
Hi Starting Poster Pyrettablze
an Iowa girl with those really neat Caucuses (Voting)

I really couldn't find the video and pics I wanted to show you of a fast start off without toe stops. This was one of them yet I seem to remember a better one. You will notice some of us are all here even in 2010. Also watch a fast ice skating race, quad speed race, inline speed race.

Hi HK47, o -o Everytime I have personally seen the toe stop run in a practice setting it seems like as soon as the skates are placed down there is a slow down and then one has to build speed from that point. Without timing analysis this is only an observation.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

Again if you team just has to use them do so.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

HK47
January 9th, 2012, 09:48 PM
You know skates are skates, if they have wheels I'll skate them.

Toestops have helped with some things, but hurt my top speed, luckily I don't really hit it on a derby track.Righto, thats one thing you've conceded ... just gotta get you to give some DA45s a serious try :D