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View Full Version : Favor of or against Supplements ?


Itay Drory
January 19th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Since I moved into this life as a pro sportsman, I noticed that almost everyone here are taking this stuff, I know some of them are good and they are the best way to get 110% out of your workout after you finished it.
Protein powder for example is a good way to recovery after a good workout.

But this post isn't about Protein, it's about the next level, aka Creatine and etc...I will not talk about Steroids since I will never touch or talk about that.

Cell-Mass - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/cell.html
Animal pak - http://animalpak.com/
Whey Protein powder

Not aproved one, but I heared people take
Jack3d - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/usp/jacked.html

This are the famous ones in Russia, as an Amateur I only used the powder, and I didn't like the Creatine, but now when this is my life, this extra have a very different meaning.

Share your ideas please.

sxevegan
January 19th, 2012, 12:37 PM
I don't take anything.

First, I prefer to try to get everything I need out of "real" food if possible. I don't even take a multi vitamin.

Second, I don't believe the claims of the supplement companies. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is....or it is an illegal substance.

Third, there are more than just a couple stories about cross-contamination and people testing positive on drug tests after taking "legal" supplements. There are plenty of items on the market (even in stores like GNC) that are perfectly legal for consumers to buy, but they are on the list of substances banned by the WADA. To me, it's not worth the risk of being labeled a doper the rest of my life to take an overpriced tainted placebo supplement.

gotsk8s
January 19th, 2012, 01:09 PM
There`s a huge downside to taking extra protein, kidney failure. Your body doesn`t store protein so it has to get rid of it. So, if your workout isn`t enough to use it you lose it via the kidney. Now, there`s a calculator out there that takes into consideration your body weight, age and so on and it can tell you how much protein your body can use in a day.
I don`t take alot of supplements either but not for that reason, I just can`t ever remember to take em lol. I have used Creatine ever so lightly though as it is very bad for the kidney as well. Just don`t over do it on this stuff or don`t do it at all. There`s plenty of good foods out there that offer everything you need to sustain.

K2Sk8er
January 19th, 2012, 01:24 PM
I'm not that hard core. I like Gatorade prime, performance, and recovery. I also really like GU gel. (yeah yeah yeah, I've already heard it; sugar sugar sugar - blah blah blah. I like them, so I use them.) If anything I'll probably check out better performance & recovery options but I too usually try to get what I need out of foodies.


- Christine

alvag
January 19th, 2012, 02:24 PM
I occasionally take protein powder mixed with yoghurt.

bnumerick
January 19th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Generally I try to get most of my nutrition from food but that's pretty hard to get everything everyday so I still take a multi-vitamin and fish oil. Every once in a great while I'll have a protein shake but it's pretty rare now days.

chrisa
January 19th, 2012, 03:12 PM
I think from an inline speed skaters stand point, you really shouldn't be concerened with taking the same products that body builders take. I personally strive to be thin and lean, not big and bulky.

The only real reason to take the hard core "animal pack" supplements is if you are body building and need that extra boost to get an ulitmate PUMP!

I think that taking a protein powder is a great way to get all of the protein that one might need in a day. Besides that all you really need is a good multivitamin (I prefer the liquid form, easier to aborb) and take an omega 3 supplement like fish oil, which also helps keep your joints lubricated and less inflamed after a hard fit of exercise.

Diet probably plays a 90% role over all though. With a terrible diet, you will never have gains regardless of any supplement you take.

JimmyB
January 19th, 2012, 04:23 PM
I have never taken anything in my life before, but latley I have been testing out protein a bit, (more for my upper body workouts) but I have forund out that it is working as a recovery aid very well, im not as sore as I had been without it. I am also noticing a diffrence in muscle build.

I do think that skaters dont need much to add size/weight, but to aid in recovery, so far I am sold.

kentek
January 19th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Itay,

I'm going out on a limb and will give you a secret that no one else will give you.

You need to make sure you get enough saturated fat, not the ploy-unsaturated.

The best place to get it is from coconut oil. It is 67% SAT FAT.
This is where the horsepower comes from. Sure you need protein but it only helps build and repair muscles, etc.
FAT is what you burn so don't forget it.
Eat real butter, bacon, etc.

Just so you know-
The brain is 90% saturated fat
Carnivorous animals (polar bears, lions etc) will go for the fat first. They will walk away from the rest of the kill.
Carbohydrates need to balanced in your diet but don't think it will give you the power of fat. You are not a cow so don't eat like one!

When I used to run marathons at about the 22 mile marker I was always craving a cheeseburger. Go figure. Listen to you body...

If you want links to facts send an email. You have the address.

Itay Drory
January 19th, 2012, 04:39 PM
I'm eating good :) don't worry about that, I'm a PIG when it comes to eating.
I just wonder about this stuff, since I know how problematic this issue is.

K2Sk8er
January 19th, 2012, 05:05 PM
When I used to run marathons at about the 22 mile marker I was always craving a cheeseburger.

Interesting. after almost all of my intense distance skates, this is usually what I'm craving as well.

theDonnybrook
January 19th, 2012, 06:06 PM
Chocolate Milk and a couple of hand fulls of peanuts.

wm_b
January 19th, 2012, 06:52 PM
Last year when I was really ramping up the intensity of my workouts I started feeling terrible. My initial reason for increasing my skating was to lose weight and it had been working great. I had a tendency to finish a skating, come home to shower and then make a small meal of about 350-500 calories. I would eat a larger meal for dinner that night. As time went on my post workout had this euphoric but dumb felling period for a few hours. I felt great on one hand but completely mentally dull on the other. It started to concern me when I couldn't keep track of some elements of projects I was working on and would find myself baffled as to why.

I talked to a nutritionist who worked with a friend and he suggested I needed to be eating immediately after working out. Like 20 minutes or less. At this point I tried out a recovery drink that has the standard cocktail of protein and carbs and after a few days I did notice a difference. From that point on I always had a cooler in the car with a shake pre-make for after my skate.

Move ahead in time to some occasions where I ran out of my drink and didn't have time to get more before a workout. I either went straight home and ate immediately or stopped at a fish taco place and would grab 2 or 4 depending on the workout. The main thing was just replenishing my body right away and not starving myself. So for me it wasn't so much about the recovery drink as the discipline to meet the timing requirements of eating within a 30 minute window. I felt better for the rest of the day. I still take a shake to races because it's more convenient than trying to seek out something besides begals, bananas and muffins that are often found at the finish line.

Gu. I like it. Placebo or not... I don't know but I do notice that having a few extra calories to burn doesn't hurt. After particularly hard workouts with my trainer I will occasionally get a iced latte with protein blended in. The jury is still out on that.

To summarize my findings:

Recovery food is most important but I'm not really sure if a recovery drink is as important as the timing of getting something in your system. The make up of such meals is important but generally the timing is key.

Gu and other gels are quick calories and they are handy for the most part.

It also helped me tremendously to eat more in the AM than the PM.

kiwimaster
January 19th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Get some protein and carbs in the system(whatever the source) within 30 min of your workout ending to kick start the recovery.
Wear compression tights and massage the legs after hard trainings.....I am finding now that I am older that recovery is very important and doesn't come as easy as it used to....Recovery regime is vital.

Code Monkey
January 19th, 2012, 07:42 PM
Italy,

Eat saturated fat if you want to have a stroke and/or heart attack. Ask any cardiologist. Actually, just google the topic and you will get more information than you can read. Read the Johns Hopkins articles so you can get good information. Also, there is a cancer link to saturated fat so if the two previous don't nail you cancer is always there waiting.

Go with sexevegan and others have said about eating a natural food source and if you can stay away from processed foods as best you can. Low cholesterol protein is fine but once you go overboard like body builders do you are trading performance today for kidney dialysis later in life. And once again, high protein consumption is also a cancer promoter.

Eat balanced, workout unbalanced. In other words change up your workouts but I don't need to tell you that.

Many people wrote very good advice on eating natural foods and occasionally a processed food. A protein drink maybe once a day if you don't eat any meat or beans (lentils are an excellent source of protein) but don't follow body builder advice it is a completely different sport. For instance put a world class speed skater against a world class body builder and see who wins an inline marathon. Also unless, well even then, you get paid phenomenal sums of money skating trading your health later in life for a few seconds off your time, is not a good trade.

Personally, I think more has to do with working out than equipment or supplements provided you eat correctly and decent equipment.

K2Sk8er
January 19th, 2012, 08:11 PM
All I know is that I used to get a bit 'heat stroky' when skating in hotter weather (head ache, nausea, etc) until I started drinking Gatorade during my longer outings. I always have a cooler w/ water and a recovery drink in my truck too; I drink it immediately after my skate and make sure to eat within the hour. I feel just fine when I stick to that.

I think that in general you should tailor your nutritional needs to fit your goals. I notice if I do high protein/low carb when I'm in the peak of skate season, my performance lags; but when I'm doing a lot of weight training and not as much cardio that diet seems to work. So I tweak that a lot as the seasons change.

With you at the pro level and probably working out a LOT harder than most of us, supplementing probably make sense for you to maximize your results and performance. For most regular folks I think a protein shake here or there along w/ general good nutrition is sufficient.

I could be totally off base but that's just my opinion! :biggrin:

ncspeed
January 19th, 2012, 08:28 PM
I believe in during and after work supplements. Chocolate milk is honestly the best form of protein out there to consume after skating or having a good hard work out at the gym. For during I my self use accelerade it works really good in keeping your legs from locking up, and helps you push to that next level.I also believe in sports legs. Now Power Bar has some really good stuff out now that seems to be worth looking into there sports drinks actually taste pretty good and do not have loads of sugar in them. Jimmy Blair of Pinnacle racing has picked them up as a team sponsor and was selling there products at the Palm Beach Challenge and he seems so far impressed with the products to.

Jim
January 19th, 2012, 08:37 PM
The best place to get it is from coconut oil. It is 67% SAT FAT.
This is where the horsepower comes from. Sure you need protein but it only helps build and repair muscles, etc.
FAT is what you burn so don't forget it.
Eat real butter, bacon, etc.

I've heard of runners who sucked down pure grease before a marathon. I think it would be pointless for me to try it because I don't think I could hold it down long enough for any of it to get into my system. Yuck!!

Spin Dr Day
January 19th, 2012, 11:05 PM
Supplements are exactly as the title suggests- supplements. Or, aids. As everyone here has mentioned the most critical element in growth of any sport is first and foremost your workout with diet coming in second. Whole foods will be overall better for your body than any multivitamin. Personally, I find it too expensive to eat a diet containing the gamut of nutrients I should be eating due to financial restraints. This is where a multivitamin and fish oils do become important to help accommodate your body's needs.

In the realm of supplements I have found creatine to be safe (when used properly!) and effective for bodybuilding, as it is intended for. I cannot see this being all too useful in blading since creatine by nature dehydrates you. A post-workout protein shake will aid tremendously in your recovery however. I highly reccomend purchasing whey protein isolate as it is the second fastest (next to hydrowhey which is way overpriced and not worth the extra bucks imho) absorbing protein you can purchase. Optimum Nutrition makes a well-rounded protein that is highly reputable throughout the body buildling and athletic community. A 5 lb tub containing 73 servings will run you anywhere from $40-45 depending on where you buy it from. I can vouch for Rocky Road being delish.

In terms of intraworkout supplements to help increase endurance in a natural and efficient way would be to purchase a BCAA drink. Branched chain amino acids contain 3 of the most important amino acids for your body to rebuild muscle (recovery!). Purple Wrath, by Controlled Labs, is one of the top intra supplements alongside Xtend by Scivation. I can tell you from personal experience these do help increase muscular endurance in weight lifting and have read many legit reviews vouching for them so I will make the presumption they would also help with blading. As I said before, the staples - consistent training regime, adequate diet, water, and proper rest- are most important in any sport to excel.

Spin Dr Day
January 19th, 2012, 11:14 PM
I forgot to mention. In terms of the supplements you mentioned I would not recommend any of them for skating. Jack3d is ramped up with a powerful stimulant which tends to result in a powerful crash for many people after the workout. If you do decide to try it, only try half scoop as it is very strong. If you do opt for a pre-workout, if any, I would simply go with a double bagged glass of green tea with honey for a small amount of caffeine with a dash of natural sugar. And Cell-mass is a load of junk filled with tons of sugars and creatine. I wouldn't even recommend that body building. If you're more interested in increasing your muscular endurance and recovery with supplements in the most natural way possible I'd do some research into beta alanine and glutamine. Beta Alanine helps decrease the lactic acid buildup in your muscles to increase endurance and glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in your body. Both are cheap in powder form and are completely safe. As always, check with your certified doctor before taking ANY supplement as I or no one here knows your health better than they :)

PBLsQuad450
January 20th, 2012, 01:59 AM
Itay, at your age and level of performance I don't think you will find particularly noticeable differences with anything legal (unbanned...). I recommend Eric Heiden's book highly, he covers supplements. He won 5 golds in 5 events in 1 Olympics without any. But from there it gets interesting... He hit the genetic lottery for his sport. This is a very individualized topic based on unique needs, i.e. "supplements." I take some, but very few. Engineered nutrition is a fall back, but a very good one compared to eating crap, and to get extra of something you might need, like iron for many people... I do Flaxseed Oil every day because I can't eat fish. I take Folic Acid. These are in concert with my doc. I do protein, vegan brown rice with BCAAs (yes, very important), about 12-14 grams protein per serving and I do one scoop with breakfast every day and one immediately after lifting. Major difference in recovery, MAJOR (for ME). I can't tolerate protein loading after skating (endurance), it makes me want to puke. I want my unsweetened fruit Owater, nice and cold, even on freezing skates. I could care less for electrolytes after lifting, but need protein (I still throw in a coconut water for electrolytes and carbs). Everyone is going to be different. I weigh 180 now (at 6' 2") and I try for 3,000 calories and 100 grams of protein each day. I'm lifting more than skating now due to weather and that is how I keep my weight up (for now). I keep cows milk, gluten and refined sugars out of my diet. If you are going to make a radical change in nutrition to support your performance, get off gluten. More trainers are taking their athletes off every day. And watch supplements for other crap ingredients, especially protein and more especially whey protein. I had a weird reaction to sucralose from that source, but many of those products are loaded with garbage. Don't freak about kidney failure from protein supplements, body bubilder products are over the top, just avoid that mess. Every single thing that happens in every living organism is triggered and supported by proteins. Try not to get too far over 1/2 your body weight in grams and you are safe as safe. In moderation, red meat (and skin, like delicious roasted crispy chicken skin) and other things are wonderful pieces of a healthy diet but have been vilified unfairly. Give up other things and spend extra coin on good meats and local produce and the like. There is nothing better.

sxevegan
January 20th, 2012, 02:07 AM
Jack3d is ramped up with a powerful stimulant which tends to result in a powerful crash for many people after the workout. If you do decide to try it, only try half scoop as it is very strong.

Or....not at all because it is a WADA banned substance.

online inline
January 20th, 2012, 03:45 AM
For me, i take a standard multi-vitamin every day, vitamin D, calcium tablet, a chocolate milk post workout drink with 25 grams whey protein, and a little flax seed with my lunch. I also like an energy gel with my more challenging workouts, but skip it otherwise.


multi-vitamin; probably don't need it becuase i eat super healthy, but it's so easy, why not?
vitamin D - reputed to help bone regeneration, especially if you aren't getting a lot of sunshine.
Calcium - also good for bone regeneration
choc. milk w/ whey protein - i do this post workout partially to re-hydrate, and also to make sure i get enough protein. I tend to go light on the meat, so i am careful that i get enough protein. The thought that i might be doing all this exercise to build muscle, but not have enough protein with which to do it, is just a scenario i would like to avoid. I make this very easy by keeping the choco milk/whey protein in dry form in a little container in my gym bag or skate bag, along with a stainless steel canister of water.
flax seed - natural source of omega-3's (so, an alternative to a "supplement"). I take 2 tablespoons in my lunch, which is a powerhouse mix of really healthy foods. Fish oil is probably better source, but this is a lot cheaper.

I have tried sportslegs also for a couple of races, and it seems to work, but who knows?

The only thing besides a post workout recovery drink, is to make sure you get a good meal within 2 hours of your workout, in a ratio of "1 gram or carbs and a half gram of protein per 2 pounds of body weight". This is mentioned in Heiden's book (prev. mentioned by PBLs).

Itay Drory
January 20th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Since I'm training 6-8 hours a day for 5-6 days a week, and this are hard workouts, my recovery needs some help, I'm eating good and on time (up to 30min after) and I'm trying to get what ever my body needs from normal sources.
So far, for 9 months of many hours and 2 training each day,I had no bad effect on me, I really like it and enjoy the "suffer", it was my dream to do that, and live like this.

About this stuff, I'll stick to post training protein.

Code Monkey
January 20th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Italy and everyone else really,

Lot's of good stuff said.

I second the idea on reading Eric Heiden's book, "Faster, Better, Stronger".

I would also like to add Brendan Brazier's books on the Thrive diet. I follow this diet closely and have for years, it's a long story, and I can say for my personal experience that if you follow this diet and work out, you will improve greatly in many ways. Now it will take years, around two to three because if you have been eating meat and processed foods and lots of saturated fat you have done harm to your body that is just going to take time to correct. However, after only a few months you will feel much better and your workouts will improve dramatically. Brendan is an Ironman Triathlete that has won many races and if you want to talk about endurance Ironmen triathletes is what I consider beyond endurance.

As you already figured out recovery is very important especially when you are working out every day like it is a full time job. After you read Brendan's book and Eric's I think you will see how to work this into your life. The Thrive diet takes serious discipline but so does skating 6 to 8 hours a day so you got the discipline thing nailed. You don't have to follow it exactly but you will find every bit helps a great deal. Then after a while, like what happened to me, you just decide to do it very closely and then you will feel great physically but also mentally.

All those performance enhancers to me seems like all those diet pills that are just junk.

oldnslow
January 20th, 2012, 07:48 PM
I like them and try almost anything over the counter for training. Supplements are not regulated by the FDA, so take at your own risk!
Itay, you should consider hiring a trainer that specializes in sports performance. You may be over training, and could possibly see greater improvement from a different program.

Code Monkey
January 20th, 2012, 08:32 PM
Italy,

Ok I am at the most an amateur skater. I skate usually 1 to 1.5 hours per day. Weekends try to do 2 to 3 hours.

I started a program at the universities kinesiology department (I am a two legged guinea pig) and last night I did the VO2 max test. Hit the number of 72 which flipped everyone out because I am 56 years old.

For years I have been doing close to the same training regime, early morning skates where I keep the heart rate around 155 bpm. Of course periodically I peg the meter at 180, just to go fast. Follow the Thrive diet. Have a personal issue with killing an animal to eat. Use the Jack Lalane juicer with a dash of protein powder. Now I am not a pro so you really can't go by my recomendations but you can by Eric Heiden. Also I look at things from the perspective of health and many times maximum performance and being healthy are not the same. Should be but aren't.

So back to the university program I am doing. No drugs and no creatine because of kidney cells dehyration. May give you pump but over the long haul, not good. If I were going for being a pro then I would get the best coach I could and would seek out the best. I stretch, do relaxation and meditate and generally handle stress well and I am always under deadline stress. But last night after my test I was given a deep tissue massage and as massuse was doing my back even I could feel when she hit knots. She also found many in my legs. She went on about how this inhibits muscle growth and function. Ok, all the pros get massages all the time but I always considered it from the point of view of relaxation and not sports performance. Now I get it. This morning on my skate I was a flying demon. I was late for work because I went to the two hour mark. Was really having to crank to get my heart rate up to 155 bpm. So working out just a few of those knots in my legs and back really helped.

So with all that said, I think the previous post about getting a speedskating coach is a very good one.

K2Sk8er
January 20th, 2012, 08:35 PM
... Itay skates on a pro team... he has coaches.... (I only know this because when I skate I can almost hear his coach telling ME to 'get my ass lower'... LMAO!!!)

online inline
January 21st, 2012, 01:14 AM
Itay, if i were seeking advice on training at an elite level like you are engaged in, i'd probably try also tapping into what the elite cyclists are doing.
The physical demands of cycling are not that different from skating, and the depth of their field will yield a stronger body of knowledge in general. I would look there for additional information, if i were operating at what sounds like a professional level, full-time.
Good luck, and feel free to share what you learn, which you always do anyways, come to think of it.

Itay Drory
January 22nd, 2012, 01:44 PM
Itay, if i were seeking advice on training at an elite level like you are engaged in, i'd probably try also tapping into what the elite cyclists are doing.
The physical demands of cycling are not that different from skating, and the depth of their field will yield a stronger body of knowledge in general. I would look there for additional information, if i were operating at what sounds like a professional level, full-time.
Good luck, and feel free to share what you learn, which you always do anyways, come to think of it.

Is it good or bad that I'm sharing ?

online inline
January 22nd, 2012, 07:16 PM
Compadre, we are friends of Facebook, for crying out loud!
What kind of question is that?!

Has all that training being going to your head? LOL.
Thanks for sharing.

Hey, btw, did some research on the fish oil supplements that some posters were using, and decided to give them a try. Seems to be enough data supporting their benefits to sway me. I had tried using flax seed as an alternative, but the omega-3 fatty acids found in flax seed are different than those in fish oil. And before that, i tried eating sardines/herring regularly, but the calories add up so i cut down.

PBLsQuad450
January 22nd, 2012, 08:43 PM
Compadre, we are friends of Facebook, for crying out loud!
What kind of question is that?!

Has all that training being going to your head? LOL.
Thanks for sharing.

Hey, btw, did some research on the fish oil supplements that some posters were using, and decided to give them a try. Seems to be enough data supporting their benefits to sway me. I had tried using flax seed as an alternative, but the omega-3 fatty acids found in flax seed are different than those in fish oil. And before that, i tried eating sardines/herring regularly, but the calories add up so i cut down.

Yeah, they are different and fish oil is better. flax is still a good source of Omegas, it's my best anyway... The fishes would be the gold standard, with protein like crazy too. I never looked, but I can imagine they are high in calories and not easy to fit in your everyday routine.

PBLsQuad450
January 22nd, 2012, 08:46 PM
Is it good or bad that I'm sharing ?

It's January. I'm skiing and wishing I was skating. It is a great post! LOL!! I like these kinds of posts. I enjoy the diversity in the replies. And sometimes they get heated. I would think you would have nutritionists working with you though?

online inline
January 22nd, 2012, 09:39 PM
Yeah, they are different and fish oil is better. flax is still a good source of Omegas, it's my best anyway... The fishes would be the gold standard, with protein like crazy too. I never looked, but I can imagine they are high in calories and not easy to fit in your everyday routine.
Fish are a tricky bit of business. Mercury content in fish is a real concern, so it is recommended that some of the more short lived fish be consumed more regularly than long lived ones. Think sardines, anchovies, and herring, for, rather than tuna, mahi mahi, and swordfish, for example.
I got on a sardine kick for a while there, as they are low in the mercury, and are convenient when you get them in the can, so fitting them in every day and not going toxic in the process is not so difficult.
They are delicious when you find the kind you like, and there are a lot of different kinds. If you want my recommendation on the best sardines or tuna available from Amazon, let me know- i've tried out a bunch.
I thought the calories for sardines were a drawback, but i checked the label of mine (in water), and it's not that bad - 60 calories equates to a half can, and a half can gets you right into the 1 gram range of what's recomended for the daily allowance of omega-3 fatty acids. If you get sardines packed in oil, it looks like it about doubles the calories, which still is not that bad. I guess the thing that was adding up was that i always eat them on a sandwich, but maybe that;s the part that has to get cut while i am in this part of the year when i am putting in less miles...
So, seems like i will be alternating the sardines with the fish oil supplements. Both seem to be good sources, imo.

sxevegan
February 2nd, 2012, 07:05 PM
Since Jack3d was mentioned before (and that has DMAA) I figured I'd post this. It was on foxnews today.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/02/soldier-deaths-during-training-sparks-military-probe-into-supplement-use/

Code Monkey
February 3rd, 2012, 05:11 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/elite-athlete-workouts/apolo-ohno?vid=26257283

All that Jack3D stuff and steroids,etc., is unregulated poison. Listen to what Apolo says about where he gets his protein. GNC and stores similar will say take 1 gram of protein per body weight. Misinformation to sell a product. It will just cause you harm for very marginal benefit.

If you do as well as Apolo Ohno or Eric Heiden, you'll be doing ok.

online inline
February 4th, 2012, 11:40 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/elite-athlete-workouts/apolo-ohno?vid=26257283
... Listen to what Apolo says about where he gets his protein. GNC and stores similar will say take 1 gram of protein per body weight. Misinformation to sell a product. It will just cause you harm for very marginal benefit. ...
Dude, Apolo says he does take some supplements, and he says it in the vid that follows automatically after the vid you linked to. I looked up what Eric Heiden says and he seems to be downplaying the use of supplements other than a daily multivitamin.
The advice i got from weight lifters was in fact, 1 gr. protein per pound of weight per day. It is widely understood that active athletes need more protein than sedentary adults. The recommendation for a sedentary adult is 30 to 60 grams protein per day.
I looked up the recommendation for athletes, and found that the Vanderbilt Univ. health site has a good article ( http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ans/psychology/health_psychology/Protein.htm ) siting studies which found that about .8 grams of protein per pound body weight have been found to aid muscle building in athletes, and one study found benefits from athletes taking supplement of about 23 grams per day in addition to what they consumed through diet. (Note that .8 is not a heck of a lot less than 1.0). Livestrong.com suggests .64 grams per pound body weight.
I figured out how much i consume in a day once before i started drinking protein shakes, and from that found that by taking a 25 gram protein shake in addition to the protein i usually get from my daily diet, it put me right at a .80 gram protein per pound body weight number.
As much as anything, i was going on the fact that if a weight lifter was shooting for 1.0 grams/lb body wiehgt, 0.8 gr/lb body weight was at least getting me close, and i am not trying to build muscle like a weight lifter.
Interestingly, the directions on the protein shake i take also recommends the 1.0 gr./lb. body weight, consistent with what you said.

An excerpt from the Vanderbilt U. recommendation follows:
A study done by Fern et. al (1991) showed that greater gains in body mass occur over four weeks of heavy weight training when young men consumed 3.3 versus 1.3 grams if protein per kilogram of body mass. In addition a study done by Meredith et al. (1992) found that a daily dietary supplement containing 23 grams of protein combined with weight training can enhance muscle mass gains relative to similar subjects who trained with out the supplement. Both of the studies show support for the belief that increased protein in the diet can help increase muscle mass, but it should be noted that these effects were found with a combination of intake and training. These two studies further indicated that a protein intake of about 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day, when combined with weight training will enhance muscle development compared with similar training with an intake of 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day (5.) However, it is important to note that there is little good evidence that the very high protein intakes (more than 2 grams per kilogram of body weight per day) typically consumed by strength athletes are beneficial

PBLsQuad450
February 5th, 2012, 02:29 AM
Apolo is also 29, a genetic fluke and an 8 time Olympic medalist. Oh, and he can eat whatever, whenever because he trains for a living instead of training along side of things we have to do like work and parent and care for elderly family and cook and clean and cut grass and shovel snow... So choosing his protein sources is brainlessly easy. I can't seem to pull off that lifestyle, maybe I'm lazy? I craft a plan as a cost-benefit that accounts for things like portability and perishability and keeps things I want out of my diet out of my diet. Every confounding interjection adds degrees of difficulty toward achieving the end goal of a diet that properly supports your training. Do the math on your intake NEEDS, make a plan down to the timing and figure out how to get in what you need. In the immortal words of one of my real life heroes (John McKnight, obscure community development reference) "you can't possibly know what you need until you know what you have." I'm in a tracking phase right now. I do it 2 or 3 times a year. I keep track of everything I eat, everything I do for training, my sleep habits, my mood, my (fill in the blanks for yourself). Enter something like Livestrong... I calculate my nutritional intake (I use other tables for more depth too on vitamin and mineral intake) based on my record and then fill in the blank areas. I NEED supplemental protein. I NEED Omega 3's and 6's. 3K in calories a day without eating any crap is a little harder than you might think. And I struggle to keep weight on. Protein needs vary a lot. .5 grams per pound of body weight is a serious minimum for everyone. From my reading and conservative nature, 1 to 1 is an absolute max. Then come the details, where the devil lives, like, have you had Hep (I have)? Do you eat Tylenol like candy? Higher protein doses can get complicated and detrimental easily so I stick to the .6 to .8 range. Higher for lifting a little lower for skating. I can literally feel the difference. And, strength and endurance effect me differently, they have similar needs in terms of protein but I have to ingest it in different relationships to the activiy, like I just need slow and steady inputs for endurance all the time and input spikes after lifting immediately. There are mountains of good research supporting protein intake. O/I's link is great. It's then a matter of an intake method that works in your lifestyle. This is why we call the products supplements.

Code Monkey
February 6th, 2012, 04:19 PM
The reason I posted that link was to show that his emphasis is not so much on supplements. Sure he takes supplements, but what I was thinking of was more along the lines of the stuff like Jack 3D and injesting massive amounts of protein.

It's really one's choice on what they want to do. The link was to show he eats a pretty much strict diet with a protein source of mainly lean fish. I am sure he takes in a protein drink, and vitamins but all these other things and the quantities that is suggested is not good.

bubbaskate
February 6th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Depends on what you consider supplement

I personally do Multivitamins and Protien - Because those are things Athletes deplete quickly


The problem is some things like Jack3d that super charge you - I think there is one thing to replace what you used. In My case... I burn muscle...the protien helps that rejuvenate, etc. Or . simpler...your body is weakend from the training so things like Vitamin c replinishment are very good

online inline
February 7th, 2012, 04:32 AM
The reason I posted that link was to show that his emphasis is not so much on supplements....
Ohno? Oh, no? OH, NO!

Ah, well, he's started his own supplements company.

It's called "8 Zone supplements"

An excerpt from an online article about him and his supplement company: He hopes to make his 8 Zone nutritional supplement package the premier comprehensive nutritional supplement for athletes and non-athletes alike, as well as a thriving business.

The 8 Zone supplements are a unique, proprietary blend designed for three different 8-hour zones throughout the day. The red zone pills are to be taken in the morning with breakfast to provide solid, sustainable energy throughout the day. The white zone pills get taken with dinner and fulfill the body’s need for essential nutrients and anti-oxidants. Finally, the blue zone pills are taken before bedtime to ensure a good night’s sleep, allowing your body to replenish and recover. Together, the supplements encourage weight-loss, stable energy, focus, and a myriad other sought-after results. link: http://theusualshop.hubpages.com/hub/Apolo-Ohnos-8-Zone-Supplements

Of course, the you tube vid you were watching was clearly being sponsored by Subway, so he was downplaying the supplements and talking with his mouth full of a big sandwich, so to speak.

Code Monkey
February 7th, 2012, 03:45 PM
It is a supplement world I guess. I take vitamins and a protein drink and those are supplements by definition, I was just thinking more of strict performance enhancing supplements or taking massive quantities of anything for an enhanced performance, but that is my choice. I knew a guy who used to eat six nodoze pills before running a race (mile) in college. He was a mess. Of course I never ran with the pros and that was not important to me to do so, so I stayed away from drugs.

You said it, Oh No. He is trying to make bucks. Now with all this stuff about supplements, really I just hope the greats aren't all taking performance enhancing drugs or processes. But I am probably naive. All that stuff permeates sports now days. Of course it did way back in the sixties. I saw a program where Russian athletes were given steroids as very young adults and now the young girl is a man.

I know I probably stand alone in this just like I don't understand the thinking around where I work and live. There is obviously a problem with consumption of oil. Gas is getting more and more expensive and can literally stop a society. So what does America do? Build ever more powerful cars and bigger to burn more fuel. Because they sell I guess. Oh I should shut up, it all just makes me so mad.

That is another reason I love to skate. I can tune my body and mind as I wish and have great fun and put the stuff I don't understand away for a time.

Letme
February 7th, 2012, 04:15 PM
Well here is my perspective. Back when I was young (playing ice hockey) I was taking some supplements (Magnesium, Calcium, C, D, B) and I drank a lot of milk, eat meat and eggs like nothing. I did not feel tired although I was training every day and playing twice or even three times per week. I guess I was young and full of energy.
Now after what, 10-15 years, I was training with my trainee who is preparing to race with pros. Along with refereeing (which is usual for this part of season) it did have quite an impact on my body and I was waking up every day with muscle pain, I was tired, without energy, etc. I was eating all the usual crap (meat, eggs, milk, carbs) without supplements, but it just wasnt enough. So I turned to our new sponsor and simply described him my situation, I said that I do not want to be pro, but I need to cope with all this stress while I need to be "fresh" for refereeing + I need to pass doping tests (pay attention to these because some of this things can contain plant alike EPO, etc.). So he gave me Ultragen (basically some mix of protein and glucose) which is for regeneration. I did not believe it will help me, but because it was given as test, so I just tried it. I should take it in that famous 30minute after workout window (when I was usually eating eggs and milk). Now after 3 weeks, with a bit higher intensity trainings, I do not feel so sore in the mornings and I can sure last a lot longer during normal pace on trainings.
If you will find some of my older replies I was telling that supplements dont really help, but now I do think they do. Because I am not so tired my morale is up, I have more desire to push again on every day training and also I have a lot more energy for my every day work. I was also pushing hard few summers ago with trainings twice per day and I was not so tired, so maybe skating wasnt enough intensive training to push me to limits.
I have not tested anything else and this product was given to me by sponsor (i can give you link in pm), so I cannot really objectively say that this is THE best product or whatsoever, but I can now claim that supplements really help.
Chemistry is mixed more effective and in better ratios than you can do it yourself with normal food, so results are better. However once again I would like to underline that consult with people who know what are they doing because I could just as easily taken something with EPO inside or something else not good/allowed.