Speed skating practice (Drill for Skating Around Corners)

[fablemaker2]

I am not a speed skater, but am looking to improve my speed around the corners.

OMG I would crash if I tried this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEj7gr7ngWg&mode=related&search=

My question: Is being hunched over like that for balance or to reduce wind resistance? I'd have a backache if I did that for too long.

[speedysktr]

it's for power. The whole point of getting low is to compress the spring, your legs, so that you have a longer, more powerful stride. That's an interesting drill that I've never seen before.

[mvirtue]

That is the right foot left foot drill. Interesting using the cones to indicate where to take each stroke and the line through the corner.

[mvirtue]

Doing right foot left foot around the cones set on the skating line is hard. I had the kids do it today.

[janneman]

mmmm seems good practise for myself too. now only find an indoor rink - seek seek seek

[gbo]

I think we need to erase this thread before my coach sees it. Would hate for him to think this was a good idea and make us all try it.

:rolleyes:

(it actually looks challenging and fun. Wonder how many sessions it would take me to master it...)

Aw, crud. I'll probably request it or set it up myself. Do the cones have to be set a certain distance apart?

[mvirtue]

The first under push is at the cone, the second out push is between the cones and the second under push is at the 2nd cone. The first out push and the second out push are 4 yards or so out from the cones and closer to the wall

[fablemaker2]

Okay, so I'm resurrecting this thread for my own good (I hope). I went to "adult skate night" at the local rink. I went with the purpose of practice crossovers because they have "dots" on the floor at about the same places that appeared in the video I posted. I practiced that drill for about 1.5 hours, and I noticed a definite improvement in my balance as I go around the corners.

My question: Is there a recommended distance that your left skate should push as you lunge forward with your right skate? What I mean is, as you cross over and both skates are touching still, how far do you push before you lift up. It felt like I was at about shoulder width between the skates.

Oh, also: Do any of you ask the rink-master to "reverse" the flow of traffic so you can practice right-turns? Are there track races that are done in reverse? I would think a downhill racer needs both turns practiced a lot.

THanks!

[mvirtue]

Okay, so I'm resurrecting this thread for my own good (I hope). I went to "adult skate night" at the local rink. I went with the purpose of practice crossovers because they have "dots" on the floor at about the same places that appeared in the video I posted. I practiced that drill for about 1.5 hours, and I noticed a definite improvement in my balance as I go around the corners.

My question: Is there a recommended distance that your left skate should push as you lunge forward with your right skate? What I mean is, as you cross over and both skates are touching still, how far do you push before you lift up. It felt like I was at about shoulder width between the skates.

Oh, also: Do any of you ask the rink-master to "reverse" the flow of traffic so you can practice right-turns? Are there track races that are done in reverse? I would think a downhill racer needs both turns practiced a lot.

THanks!

You want to keep getting lower to get even more extension in the under push.

Our rink does do a song worth of the reverse direction in session.

[Kennedy]

If you want to work on cross overs, try going to an artistic practice. See if you can work on "figures". From my epxericnce, it is the best way to work on your balance and crossing. It is all about control.

[unicycle1234]

If you want to work on cross overs, try going to an artistic practice. See if you can work on "figures". From my epxericnce, it is the best way to work on your balance and crossing. It is all about control.

If you can't cross over, then the above advice may be ok. If you need to improve your crossover for speedskating, that's probably a bad place to learn. You should go to indoor practice of speed club....a lot of those drills are counter intuitive so you really need someone who knows to look at you and correct those techniques.

[mikeyb]

I liked how the first skater did the cones. She kept her feet on the ground even after crossing. This means she kept both underpushing and crossing over leg parallel which is key to a strong crossover and likely gives her the control to navigate the cones. I can only hold the underpushing leg parallel if I'm pushing thru the heel. I don't skate indoors but do a version of this drill to get my weak side (crossing left) strong before I skate.

I'm often amazed at the small size of the rink used for indoor speed. It looks about 2/3's of an ice hockey rink. You need some real skill to navigate such a small space with speed skates in a crowd of competitive athletes. No wonder the still photos show such deep edges.

[j_nolesfan]

I loved the video. Now, I want someone to explain the foot positioning in detail (push off with rightfoot to extend left towards first cone which straddles the first "obstacle" while keeping both feet on the floor...etc.). A slowmo video of proper corner/crossover technique would be great.
Thanks,
Jeff

[mvirtue]

I loved the video. Now, I want someone to explain the foot positioning in detail (push off with rightfoot to extend left towards first cone which straddles the first "obstacle" while keeping both feet on the floor...etc.). A slowmo video of proper corner/crossover technique would be great.
Thanks,
Jeff

Your left foot stays under your CG when your right goes out. 90% or more of your weight should be on your left skate. You then pull in your right at the same time that you push out your left. When you end you will have 90% or more of your weight on your right skate and it should be under your CG. Your right and left skate should be parallel. You have now done a right foot - left foot. This is one of the drills that Joey Mantia does every day (He does it as right foot only for one end of the rink, then right foot/left foot for the other).

[merlin]

Ugh! What a terrible drill! No cross into the corner, horribly wide exit, only two crosses for the whole corner, skaters coming off balance constantly as they try to "fit" the tiny gaps, etc.

wrong, Wrong, WRONG.

[mvirtue]

Joey Mantia does two crosses per end on his 12s 'I can do this for the whole day' laps. His crosses also fall on the pylons. The video is of a wide variety of skating abilities and ages. On my team some of the kids could do it clean, others would not.

[excelsk8]

Hello guys this is Francisco Ramirez, from Excel speed team, I am the coach and the guy skating behind the skaters on this drill, also the person that came up with the drill and posted it on the you tube web site, if you want to improve your cross over technique then you should do a progression for cross overs, for the people that have never done it.. I will shoot the progresion on my practice and edit the video and post it on you tube and then place the link in here.
It was cool seeing you guys talking about the drill that I came up with ... I will explain as best I can.
the most important thing, and the reason the cones are in the floor is for you to learn to cross over, instead of crossing in front.
You should step over your feet and then over the cone, thus making you exagerate the cross over part of the skating technique, a couple of people on the video do not step over as they should, but instead they step in front, what I mean by that is that if you step with your right skate over your left then you will have all your weight on your left skate thru the push, this way you do not waste energy. I hope you understand. If you want to try the progression then do this:
place a couple of cones in a straight line not to far from each other maybe a metter appart ( and maybe 6 to 8 cones) and then stand with your left skate facing the first cone,( you should bend your knees as every time you are trying good skating technique) as you step over your left skate with your right one you should at the same time step over the cone! hold your cross over possition for a little bit, then bring your left leg next to the next cone again and continue to cross over the line of cones until you finish!
Once you have gone thru this drill you are ready to try and skate and cross over a cone at the same time, YOU SHOULD PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO YOUR TECHNIQUE AND MAKE SURE THAT : YOUR RIGHT SKATE BACK WHEEL IS CROSSING OVER YOUR LEFT SKATE LACES, THIS WAY YOU CAN MAKE SURE THE CROSS OVER IS OPTIMAL.
as I said before I will try and shoot the whole progretion that I dO aT practice and then I will come back and post it here, if you have any questions feel free to ask me or e-mail me.
admin@excelsk8.con
FRancisco Ramirez
On the following link you can see me the same day demonstrating this drill to my skaters at practice. Notice that I try to exagerate the cross over as much as posible and in turn that helps my left leg have a better extension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRMXo70SsI

also note that you should try to have only one leg at a time ON THE FLOOR while you push, meaning your suporting leg is just "waiting for a push" as you push with the left the supporting leg ( the right one) is just waiting for it to finish its push then you land with your right supporting leg.
I hope I didnt make this to complicated, if I did please let me know and I'll try to explain better.
If you want to check all the videos I have posted in you tube just click on the link bellow:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=canariam&search=Search
ITS FILLED WITH TECHNIQUE AND COMPETITION VIDEOS! HOPE YOU ENJOY IT!

hope this helps anyone that wants to be a better skater!

[mikeyb]

Thank you, Francisco. It's great to have an expert coach jump in and let the rest of us benefit from your know how. I'm an outdoor bicycle trail skater but I do alot of crossovers anyway. I'm not sure if this will be easy or hard for me, but I'm going to give it a go with a couple of hockey gloves for cones at the first dry day.

I want to mention there is no bobbing up and down of your head or body. It's as if the upper body is set and centered over a balance point and the legs move underneath. This solid steady flat motion of the upper body is also the mark of excellent crossovers in ice and roller hockey. It allows you to aim your feet and take even slow strokes.

Looking forward to more of your videos!

[fablemaker2]

How about that? An aggressive skater lured a speed skating icon into our pond.

Francisco - your drill helped me a lot. I also look forward to more! Thanks!

[unicycle1234]

Nothing beats the guy himself explaining the trick, thanks Francesco. We do a different drill to achieve the same purpose. Without trying your drill myself (so pardon my mistake) here are some of the observations I have:
- the crossover seem rather jerky, maybe they are new to this drill? or maybe they are trying to make the switch over exactly at the pylon?
- you emphasized that only one foot should be on the floor, but the video showed that both feet are on the floor , especially when setting up for the crossover.

Your advice on crossover being a cross "over" the foot and not "in front" is so true. Instead of keeping the hip in, people tend to turn the hip out thus making the crossover more like a cross front.

[excelsk8]

Ok guys, sorry I took so long, here is the progretion that we do for the cross overs... firts I get everyone doing this drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWVfd_AHKtU

then the people that are doing it good enough go to the inside track where you set only to places for them to skate over the cones like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zdi3ESkgcQ

and the people that are doing the drill good enough then you send them to the regular track and have them do the two cross overs per turn like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn7-nA7tyH8

Remember the idea is to have people cross right at the cone not before the cone, and after you cross, then hold the crossed position for two seconds at least, (not everyone in the videos are doing it, but dont worry I am owrking on it), if you want to know exactly what I mean, then just make sure your right skate back wheel is crossing right over the left skate laces, this way you make sure that you are crossing over, crossing in fron is the bad habit we got to get rid of!

I will post some more cross over drills soon!

[mikeyb]

So the idea of this drill is to develop better outside edge control and full extension on the underpushing leg?

In terms of racing, or even less, just doing high speed crossovers, I reviewed some videos of Luca Presti and others during a 300m sprint (good quality video site). Click the video button on this link:

http://www.fihp.net/world2004/

I studder stepped the video and they seem to step in front of their underpushing leg in the turns. Any thoughts about the technique of these racers?

[excelsk8]

Well the idea is to practice and exagerate technique as much as you can, so when you finally go into a 300M sprint you can do your best, and that is having the fastest time, at a sprint like that the last thing you are thinking about is technique, when I skate sprints all I think is faster, fasTER, FASTER... that is all I think of, by this time of year you already have spent so much time on technique that you dont think of it at all!

Now if the question is :
Does every pro elite men that wins world championships cross over at their races? I can tell you for sure the answer is no!
if you ask :
Do they practice cross over drills the way I do?
The answer is : I have no clue.
if you ask me:
Why did you come up with this method of training to get better at turns?
that I can answer, I pay really good attention to technique, and as I have not really have an indoor coach in this country that is really knowledgeable on inlines, then I went to indoor nationals in 2001 and recorded all the pro elite races indoors, as I seemed to be getting nowhere, after a year of skating indoors, so I did that and came home after nationals and watched everyone of my videos, the one thing all the best of them had in common? cross over and reach with the right leg!
so I got back home and started working on it.
then maybe a year ago I found an article in an old Speed Skating Times magazine about cross overs and how you should start with the people for good form, well it pretty much had the same ideas that I had just got from the videos, even though the article was written by an ice coach.
So I started working and working and working some more on technique and I feel better now, I still have a long way to go as with technique you are never done, but I feel that the idea of the cones to teach you to push thru with your left leg, and at the same time, teaching you to cross that right leg as far into the turn as possible ( after you have already cross over of course) was a really good idea, maybe some people already work with it, maybe someone else already had come up with something similar, but I have never seen anyone teaching it this way, that is the reason that I said that I invented this drill, that does not really matter, what matters is to get the idea and get better and more comfortable on those turns as possible!

Now if you look at my videos in you tube and you looke at joey mantia springting in the record setting 500M at last years indoor nationas, then you can see he does cross over.

Maybe the great Luca Presti wasn't crossing over because he was in a banked track? I dont know, I skated banked track for a long time in colombia, we were always trying to emulate what the american skaters were doing on the turns...I honestly don't know the exact answer to that!

[mikeyb]

Thanks Francisco. It's interesting how awareness of and improvements in techniques develop. Even though I don't race, it's part of my enjoyment of skating to learn more and understand technique better. For instance, I already work on pushing thru with the left, but will also make sure I reach over with the right.

Mike

[j_nolesfan]

Time to resurrect this thread.

Now that I'm back at practice and we're doing six step corners, I've come to realize that my quad skating days are still haunting me. I've got two foot placement issues and they're probably also related to weight placement (what leg my weight is currently on, leaning too far forward, hips in/out, shoulders in/out).

First, I tend to cross in front making it look more like a step forward than a step to the inside of my left skate. Since I do this, my front wheel on my left skate is the last thing to push/touch the floor. That's good in quad skating but not for inline. I think this is the reason for problem number two also.

My second problem is that I don't get a good push from my left foot. I think that the fact that I tend to step too far forward instead of across my left laces when crossing makes it difficult to push through my left heel. Right now, when I do get a good left foot push, it surprises me and pushes me off balance because I'm not expecting it.

The coaches are telling me to get farther out on my left edge with my left foot but I've gone so far as to rub the boot and I still don't feel it. Should I be thinking of a left push as being similar to an under push in a double push? Should it feel like a heel carve? I feel like when I do get the left push correct, my left foot comes off the floor pointing in the direction it's moving as it returns to the inside. When I do it wrong, my toe sweeps to the right which causes me to return my left foot in more of a toe pointing right position.

As for weight transfer/position, I've heard "sit back into the corner". To me, that's the exact opposite of what you would do on quads which is why it feels so awkward to me. My impression of sitting back would be to square my shoulders or favor the right side and open my right hip where I'm almost facing to the right of my path. If any of this makes sense, I'd very much appreciate it if anyone could break it down for me a little.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[mvirtue]

This might be a bit jumbled...

Yes, you want to feel like you get a heel carve on the under push. The back side of your right knee and the front of your left knee need to brush each other. To really achieve that you need to turn your hips so that they are "out of the corner, but this sends your butt into the corner which leads to the sit into the corner :)

Your hips and shoulders should be square.

If you boot out before you get the edge your are collapsing your ankle. That is what all my kids do, and they wonder how I skate with cut down Simmons :)

And yes, it sort of feels like the under push of a DP.

[Bill in Houston]

Have you seen either of the following?
Eddy Matzgers videos with "pop the balloon" or "sit in to the corners" (look on youtube for eddy crossovers)
The Bill Begg Bonttv video with "kick the football"

Those may help. They are both trying to teach a strong carve and forward extension of the inside leg.

[mikeyb]

I agree with all the above. The key is to underpush thru the heel (in short, a good carve). In this direction, counterclockwise, it's the left foot that underpushes. This happens to be my weaker direction. What makes a direction weaker? Hard to say, but it's clear that the body's parts don't line up for a more powerfull push. Coaches try to have you mentally focus on one part of the body or the other to help the rest of your parts automatically get in line.

I like Eddy Matzger's approach because he focuses more on hip position and this really helps me. Here is the 'crossover video' from youtube.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgd2Y4JXBM0

If the link doesn't work, type in

dinobot71

into the search field on youtube and it will turn up dinobot's Eddy videos and it's right there.

My favorite drill is by far the most difficult and is at the end. Eddy calls it the 'pivot turn' and I've been fussing with it for a few months. This is very difficult on the long flat frame of a speed skate and only works if you can balance on the back outside edge of your frame. The key point is to lean into the circle with your hips as Eddy and one of the other skaters demonstrate. If you just lean your hip into the circle you'll immediately put more pressure on your outside edge and will likely see some immediate improvement in your underpush. This drill has helped my leftward crossover be almost the equal of my stronger rightward crossover. Remember, the key is to lean the hip into the circle. Notice how low Eddy and the other skater hold their bodies. You can lean your hip in if your body is in a sitting position.

Because of this drill, I can now carve full leftward crossovers even in fairly small tight circles (smaller than a face off circle in a hockey rink) with good control and a deep carve on my 12.8 inch long speed frame. This is only possible because I'm able to balance more force over the outside edge of the rear wheels of my frame. I try to practice this every time I skate as it's quite difficult for me. :)

Mike B

[oldnslow]

The video's are good. I'm stuck in quad mode and it seems that inliners that get the technique roll away from me effortlessly in the turns. Very frustrating.

[excelsk8]

But there is no way people won't be rolling away from you when they are on inlines and you on quads! inlines are a lot faster than quads though.
the videos from Eddie are good, there is a lot of technique stuff online now, that is really great, makes a whole lot easier to work on technique...
I hope the cone drill is helping you with achieve a better technique.
Will have more technique videos soon.
FRan

[oldnslow]

But there is no way people won't be rolling away from you when they are on inlines and you on quads! inlines are a lot faster than quads though.

I'm not on quads. I'm on inlines just skating like I'm on quads(technique).

[kufman]

The video's are good. I'm stuck in quad mode and it seems that inliners that get the technique roll away from me effortlessly in the turns. Very frustrating.

Once you do get the technique, it will blow your mind away. I just recently started skating properly on inlines, and the difference in effort is substantial.

[excelsk8]

To be honest the difference is so huge, its like night and day, I still get amazed at how much technique makes you skate so much less and still you go a lot faster, I spend a lot of time with my focus on technique drills, I pay really good attention to every little detail, and it pays, it never gets old either, I consider myself a pretty decent skater outdoors and ok indoors, and this year I was amazed after working a lot on technique outdoors how much less I felt like I had to work to go a lot faster for a lot longer, I really though so many times about it.
with this said, let me get to my point:
To become better technically you have to spend at least 70% of the time doig drills that are technique oriented, and every time you are warming up or cooling down then you need to use your head all the time and remind yourself that this is a great time to focus on your technique, if you are skating indoors, then focus on doing a good and long right leg push, make sure you push using all your wheels until the end of the push, Make sure you notice this based on feeling, not looking to your right, as this is a big technique flaw, I see a lot of kids out there and in my team also that you can see looking to the outside when they need to be looking to the inside instead, after that cross over, but like mentioned above make suer that you cross over, not in front, feel yourself crossing your back - right skate wheel over your left - skate laces, or lace cover, make sure you push thru, do not land with your right skate until your left leg has performed a whole push and is totally extended under your body in the cross over position, then from there lift your left skate and take it from underneath your body turning that into the next right leg pus, and so on. as yourself about your technique every step of the way, your arms? are they good? your hips are they good? are you rocking your body up and down? if so make it steady, are you looking in or out? if out remember that you have to always look the direction of your travel.... just remember Slow down to go faster.
slow down let yourself learn technique and see the results.
Take care of technique and speed takes care of itself!

[Barracuda]

So how long did it take you (or anyone else for that matter) to get it?

I started in March (with a quad background), took off the summer and have been back at it since mid September. So I have almost 5 months into it and am progressing (slowly I feel).

Once you do get the technique, it will blow your mind away. I just recently started skating properly on inlines, and the difference in effort is substantial.

[j_nolesfan]

Thanks guys. I actually think I understand now. Between a few of the drills Eddy shows, I should be able to start honing the technique. As for "booting my left skate", I think it's because of the fact that my hips are "in" to the left too much which makes me sort of drag my left foot before I should even be finished pushing. One of my coaches started preaching ankle strength to me as well but I really think it's more about technique. Now, I know my ankles could use some work but I don't think that's what's keeping me from making the proper stride. I really think it's my hips and my right foot crossing too far in front of my left.

I'll work on that at today's practice and I'll try to report back. It's my goal to hear the coaches say "you crossed much better today". I think with this input, I am well on my way.

You guys are awesome! I really don't think I could have gotten that out of anyone else at practice. Of course, they would have pointed out the fact that I was doing it wrong but that puts me into a process of elimination and experimentation in my quest for what is right. The time is so compressed and furious that it's hard to get one on one time when there are two real coaches and about 25 skaters. Plus, being a good skater doesn't necessarily make you a good coach in the sense that you can articulate what proper form looks and feels like. Heck, I consider myself a better skater than the average Joe off the street but when trying to teach my kids when they were first learning, I could only muster a few pointers and hold their hands. So, I'm not taking anything away from those guys, they do a lot with the time and assistance they have and they don't make a dollar for doing it. All the money goes to rent the rink.

Cheers,
Jeff

[oldnslow]

So how long did it take you (or anyone else for that matter) to get it?

I started in March (with a quad background), took off the summer and have been back at it since mid September. So I have almost 5 months into it and am progressing (slowly I feel).

Man, I'm with you. I've skated 33 years on quads, heel - toe, head down, twisting into the turn. These are hard habits to break. The closest good inline team is 300 miles away. None of the coaches around, including me, know how to teach inline speed. That's why Chad Smith is about the only good inliner out of Indiana, and that was in 93. Michigan and Wisconsin have quite a few fast inliners, but the rest of the Great Lakes region is behind.
I'll take any help I can get. Keep up the great post.

[Bill in Houston]

Plus, being a good skater doesn't necessarily make you a good coach in the sense that you can articulate what proper form looks and feels like. This is good to remember. A coach who can help you a ton may not be that great of a skater. Anyone know Tiger Woods' coach's name? Butch wasn't good enough to win majors, but he sure helped Tiger along his way... It can be hard to listen to the guy who isn't the greatest skater, but he might be the one who can help you the most. Thanks for the reminder.

[j_nolesfan]

Ok, I must have watched Eddy's video on crossovers about five times yesterday. I got to practice early and quickly realized that I couldn't do a heel stab indoors because there was way too much grip. I did try to focus on squaring my hips and shoulders much more and I often felt a better push from my left foot but I've still got a long way to go. Hopefully, I can get outdoors this weekend and do some circle drills and heel stabs with some welcomed lower traction.

Thanks again,
Jeff

[excelsk8]

J_nolesfan, you should check that booting out with your left skate is not due to supinating instead of the placement of your hip, you know how many skaters pronate (skate on the inside of the wheels) ... well supinating is the opposite, when your skate is in the outside of the wheels, and this is the way we should be a lot in the beginning phase of the push, but sometimes, due to weak ankles we supinate too much indoors in our left foot, (I see this a lot with my skaters) when you dont know how to control your feet 100% then this happens thus having your foot on the outside of the wheels too much, your left skate should be on the outside of the wheels during a turn, but not so much that your boots touch the floor.
I hope it makes sense.

[mikeyb]

j nolesfan, believe it or not, I've never used my speed boots on a wood floor and so I can't rightly comment whether Eddie's pivot turn drill is do-able there. I tend to think it is. It's simply hard to get your weight stable and over those back two wheels on the right amount of outside edge to do this drill. It forces you to find the right position over which to balance your body.

If your foot is off then your body won't let you lift your outside leg and ride that outside edge. However, just trying this drill a number of times will get your body searching for that correct foot position and balance. Leaning in your hips as Eddie recommends will also assist that search.

Again, I'm weaker crossing over to the left. At first, I absolutely could not do this drill to the left and I still need alot of warm up to do a weak version of it to the left. However, it immediately improved the strength and control of my leftward crossovers. It's a little scary to lift that outside leg and try to ride that outside edge in a tight circle, but worth the attempts. If you're supinating or booting out, this may help fix it. My leftward crossovers continue to improve.;)

Mike B

[j_nolesfan]

Thanks again Mike and Francisco.

I didn't manage to squeeze in any outdoor time this weekend so tomorrow at indoor practice, I'm going to try this drill on the carpet first. Surely I can generate a little slide on the carpet.

Cheers,
Jeff

[mvirtue]

The problem with most of Eddie's drills is that you get going too fast too soon indoors.

[oldnslow]

Wo, Wo, Wo, Wo! Did you say TOO FAST?
Is there such a term to be used?

I'm just kiddin. I know what you mean. I had my quad skaters try Franciscos drill this past weekend, and all of them fell at least once. I've got a lot of work to do.

[mikeyb]

Speed is one of the difficult issues with alot of drills. It can actually take more skill to do it slow. While I struggle with that pivot turn drill, Eddy can probably do it with ease at a near stand still. I think speed skates get difficult to use at slow speed.

[Bill in Houston]

I'm going to try this drill on the carpet first. Surely I can generate a little slide on the carpet.
Also you might try it on some shorter rec skates a couple of times to get the feel of it, and then go back to your long skates.

[j_nolesfan]

I got some "carpet time" last night and almost busted my butt a couple of times but it did help some. Tuesdays are six-step and form only. I did much better today. The coach suggested a couple of changes in my frame alignment, one of which I made yesterday and it helped. I'm making the other one before the next practice. Apparently, the reason my left foot was hard to push through the heel (heel stabbing motion, pop the baloon) was because my frame was too far to the right in the front and too far to the left in the rear which made it more difficult to make my left foot carve to the left sharply.

In spite of that, I still had a much better day. I concentrated on corner entry first. I have a bad habit of lifting my right foot over my left on entry instead of pushing with my right and then stepping over my left. I've found that if you get it right, it's almost like skating down hill through the corner.

Progress feels good but man I'm sore!

Jeff

[j_nolesfan]

Another thing I noticed, even though my back and legs are screaming at me when I'm using proper form, I do feel like I'm making more power with less effort. Last night, I paced with the fastest group for quite a while and even played a little by hanging back and chasing them down. My goal was to use proper technique and catch up to them without breaking into a sprint. That's not easy to do when you're still learning the form but I think the activity paid off.

Jeff

[Barracuda]

Well, I'm glad that it's going well for someone. While I feel that my form is definitely improving, my speed has yet to catch up. We did a 15 lap race at practice last night and I got killed. Granted, I was up against the five fastest people on the team, but I figured I would be able to keep up for at least a little while. They had a gap on me after one lap, and after five I was breathing pretty hard, which is odd because I feel that I am in pretty good shape. I got lapped on lap 13, and once I finished I had a headache and my lungs were burning. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on myself as this was the first long race that we have done this season.

So I guess the question is: What should I be doing to improve my fitness? Intervals on the bike? Ice Hockey? Running? Maybe this would be a good topic for a new thread.

Thanks,
Jeff

Another thing I noticed, even though my back and legs are screaming at me when I'm using proper form, I do feel like I'm making more power with less effort. Last night, I paced with the fastest group for quite a while and even played a little by hanging back and chasing them down. My goal was to use proper technique and catch up to them without breaking into a sprint. That's not easy to do when you're still learning the form but I think the activity paid off.

Jeff

[oldnslow]

Well, I'm glad that it's going well for someone. While I feel that my form is definitely improving, my speed has yet to catch up. We did a 15 lap race at practice last night and I got killed. Granted, I was up against the five fastest people on the team, but I figured I would be able to keep up for at least a little while. They had a gap on me after one lap, and after five I was breathing pretty hard, which is odd because I feel that I am in pretty good shape. I got lapped on lap 13, and once I finished I had a headache and my lungs were burning. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on myself as this was the first long race that we have done this season.

So I guess the question is: What should I be doing to improve my fitness? Intervals on the bike? Ice Hockey? Running? Maybe this would be a good topic for a new thread.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
Intervals are best for a quick return to cardiovascular fitness. I hate to say it, but running is going to get you there faster than the bike will (I hate running). If you have access to a slide board, you can set up in front of a mirror and actually do intervals and check your body position at the same time. I use to spend a lot of time on the stair stepper with my hands behind my back in the bent over skating position. I could target different muscle groups by adjusting my body position, and it really made my back strong.
Make sure you work your core (abs, low back, hip flexors, and glutes). If that area is week, you may not be transferring all of your power to the floor. Also hit your hamstrings. Many skaters develop a muscular imbalance and start experiencing tendonitus in the knee because the quads get over developed compared to the hamstrings.
Your diet will also contribute to your recovery. You gotta eat clean. Little fat intake and lots of fruits and veggies. The cleaner your blood, the faster the oxygen can get to the muscles to help them recover. Chad Hedrick once said that all he eats is fruit. He's a pretty decent skater.lol
Your breathing difficulties may also be due to a bit of anxiety. It sounds like you were vary confident and fast on quads, and now the pressure is on. This is when you need to skate smarter, not harder. Like many others here have already said, focus on the technique, and the speed will come.
If you can, video your practice. Sometimes it seems like the coach can tell you what you're doing wrong a hundred times, but until you see it for yourself, it does'nt click.
I feel your pain with the transition, and I hope this helps. Keep up the hard work.

[j_nolesfan]

When my coach sees me with my "butt in the air" having my weight too far forward, he'll cut into the pace line behind me and grab my shirt and pull me back. After a couple of surprises like that, you'll definitely pay more attention. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably get lapped in a 15 lap race with our faster skaters too. I was keeping up with the pace line, not toying with a group in a sprint. I could just tell that we were close to a speed that used to be where my sprint started and I was amazed that I could do a six step at that speed.

If your shoulders, hips, and arms do the right things, it's not so hard for your feet to do the right things too. For me, it's actually easier to concentrate on my upper body and the position of my weight than to focus on my foot placement. The only things I try to do in crossovers is to "pop the balloon" and make a right foot push when I'm entering the corners. The rest is just sitting into the corner and maintaining a proper "squat" for lack of a better term.

I made the final frame adjustment and I can't wait to get back on the floor and see if it's cured my "pop the baloon" difficulties.

Jeff

[Barracuda]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice.

I'd like to get out tonight, but I need to go trick or treating! Maybe afterwards to work off some of the candy...Or I could wear my junk skates trick or treating and do some tricks.

Jeff

[mikeyb]

This business of entering the corner with a right footed outpush to set up the left footed underpush is almost the exact same move as a double push. In fact, a double push is an sequential outpush/underpush to the right, followed by an outpush/underpush to the left, etc. Hope I'm not stating the obvious.

Mike B

[j_nolesfan]

Hope I'm not stating the obvious.

No, I think you remind us of an interesting point. Now, if I can just put that into practice ;)

Jeff

[Barracuda]

I skated the beginner practice last night which gave me time to work on form. I tried out a new suggestion as well. I was told that some skaters would rest their left elbow on their left leg to get in the correct position coming into the corner. It seemed to work pretty well for me. I'll try it out some more at practice in the morning and see if I can keep up.

[mvirtue]

I skated the beginner practice last night which gave me time to work on form. I tried out a new suggestion as well. I was told that some skaters would rest their left elbow on their left leg to get in the correct position coming into the corner. It seemed to work pretty well for me. I'll try it out some more at practice in the morning and see if I can keep up.

Don't forget the last part of this...put you chin on your hand....

[Barracuda]

Don't forget the last part of this...put you chin on your hand....

Too....Much......to.....Remember, fatal hard drive error.:(

[mvirtue]

Too....Much......to.....Remember, fatal hard drive error.:(

LOL!!!

[oldnslow]

Don't forget the last part of this...put you chin on your hand....

The thinking skater? Not many of us do that often.

[mvirtue]

The thinking skater? Not many of us do that often.

It's more like putting forehead on hand and shaking head... :p

[Barracuda]

I spent 1.5 hr in the snow yesterday and thought that I would use the snow covered hills to practice crossovers. I practiced crossing over while going uphill in 8" of snow. It was difficult at first to maintain my (intended) direction of travel, but I got the hang of it after a while.

I had planned to go to practice form 5-7 but it was canceled so I decided to do some more drills. With my skates on, I practiced doing (crossovers. At first I started on the floor but I could barely do it so I moved to the carpet. I found that my upper body twisting was really causing instability. I concentrated on keeping my shoulders square to my hips and I was doing much better. Next thing that I noticed was the (left) arm swing - which was more of a "balance" swing that helped me to maintain my balance. After 10 minutes of concentrating on the shoulders and arm swing I was able to take pretty big crossovers at a good rate, that is, when I wasn't clipping skates- but that wasn't too bad. I then moved back to the floor where I was able to maintain my balance and take nice big steps as long as I kept my shoulders square and used the arm swing.

I'm going to do this again tonight to keep it fresh in my mind (and body), then we'll see if it helps me out at practice on Tuesday.

[roller_dudette]

I'm working on my speed in cross overs! Fablemaker, you have to try a speed practice to get it. If you face into the circle, your hips will tilt out and that will put your foot on an outside edge which slows you down a lot on inlines. You need someone to see you to see if you are square. I dont recommend art lessons at all if you want to go FAST. They teach you to stand up straight and to look "pretty".

Also on the back thing, my coach said its stomach/core muscles!

But how do you strengthen the left leg? I sprained my knee a while ago, something like the MCL on the inside of the leg and its still weak. I was walking sideways up the stairs today as an exercise every other stair. It doesnt hurt but there is still a touch of soreness there when I do this so I can tell my inner thigh muscles by my knee arent 100% yet. I'm losing speed since I'm not putting enough weight on it. Any more good exercises? I'm not getting a very good extension with that leg. It doesnt really bother me when I skate but I think I'm subconsciously "protecting" it still and its definitely weaker then my other leg.

[mvirtue]

I'm working on my speed in cross overs! Fablemaker, you have to try a speed practice to get it. If you face into the circle, your hips will tilt out and that will put your foot on an outside edge which slows you down a lot on inlines. You need someone to see you to see if you are square. I dont recommend art lessons at all if you want to go FAST. They teach you to stand up straight and to look "pretty".

Also on the back thing, my coach said its stomach/core muscles!

But how do you strengthen the left leg? I sprained my knee a while ago, something like the MCL on the inside of the leg and its still weak. I was walking sideways up the stairs today as an exercise every other stair. It doesnt hurt but there is still a touch of soreness there when I do this so I can tell my inner thigh muscles by my knee arent 100% yet. I'm losing speed since I'm not putting enough weight on it. Any more good exercises? I'm not getting a very good extension with that leg. It doesnt really bother me when I skate but I think I'm subconsciously "protecting" it still and its definitely weaker then my other leg.

I recommend wall sits/lunges. As a side note you are on the outside edge of your left skate going through the corner.

[roller_dudette]

I recommend wall sits/lunges. As a side note you are on the outside edge of your left skate going through the corner.

Thanks! Been doing some of those on and off. I'll keep up at them. Think this takes time.....

Yep, sorry, was thinking the right foot. I was asking the coach and he showed me how when the hips point out, in inlines, thats the way the edge goes and the direction your skates want to pull. I was looking at his right foot when he showed me!

Seems like for quads its not as big a deal to be perfectly square.