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Old April 11th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #20
Iggy
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PITTSBURGH, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Hi Josh

It is rare that a thread start post is so clearly laid out and confirms that the poster has really done their homework in reviewing the vast amount ovf material already available via the SLF search features.
Kudos to you for that.

My first point is to warn you that of the three items that can offer some degree of vibration reduction, the plate is the weakest contributor. The wheels are the primary vibration absorber. The boot/sole/insole are a close second and the plate is a distant third.

Agreed

In the case of the DA45 plates however, their geometry actually transfers the most vibrations up through the trucks into the plates. This is because of the near vertical line from the pivot ball center down through the axle centerline. With this geometry, the upper cushion cannot contribute much toward vibration dampening, since the shock force vector resolves more vertically through the UN-CUSHIONED pivot pin line and less in the direction of the upper cushion line.

Maybe, but I notice less vibration with my DA45 outdoor setup than I did with my 10 degree (I think) Marathons.

As far as the size 6 Skins plate being suitable on a size 11.5 boot, I think you need to decide if you can handle an short-forward Aussie style mount. Skins 6 WOULD match up well if you can handle having the rear axle a bit forward of standard location. This would also make the skates a bit more turn responsive when you roll them indoors.

A 188mm wheelbase would not be that short on an 11.5. Actually it'd be kinda long. I believe a 190mm would be standard on an 11.5. Or at least Roll Line says a 190mm is standard on my size 11.

In my own case I have three pairs of skates that I roll both indoors and outdoors, with two being very long and one slightly long. All three pair have exceptional turning capability. The Novas and the Sliders are both steep kingpins too, but the Omegas (my outdoor slalom slates) are SA45s converted to semi-DA. I do not feel AT ALL turning deprived when I skate any of these despite none of them being DA45 plates.

That's good that you're happy with them. Some of us want more

You can mount a set of Nova plates on a Bont boot and get close to DA45 performance.

Not a chance.

You can mount a Skins plate and put Panther trucks on it to give DA45 performance with less truck weight.

Or you could mount a Skins with the appropriate DA45 trucks and get real DA45 performance on an already light weight plate.

You can also mount Laser plates and get close to Da45 turning performance with a properly tweaked cushion scheme.

I never skated Lasers, but I doubt you're the only one I've ever seen say you can make a Laser perform even close to a DA45.

As far as outdoor rolling foot comfort, I have heard good things recently about the Bont carbon sole being able to isolate your foot from most to the vibration coming up through the trucks/plate. This despite their not so thick foot cushioning design.

I have not skated the Bonts outdoor, but from skating them indoor I would definitely think they'd make a great outdoor boot.

I am currently building a new pair of outdoor skates using the Nike Retro re-release of my avatar PIC BB shoes. Like you I want it to perform reasonably well both indoors and outdoors with the priority slanted more for outdoor. I am struggling with the choice of what plate to mount. I have the options of Sliders, Skins, Panthers, Omegas, and Novas and it is really a tough choice. Since I can make all of them turn well, the emphasis shifts more toward what kind of skating will I be doing most of the time I will roll on them. I also am concerned about being able to fit the largest variety and sizes of outdoor wheels on them. In this regard the Sliders and Novas are better than the Skins/Omegas and Panthers.

If I was you, I think I would get the Skins size 6 plates and have the delrin pivot cups enlarged to accept a 3/8" pivot ball. Then I would put Ultimate2 metal trucks on them and set them up with semi DA cushions to have DA45 level of turning.

Or, like I said, get a real DA45 Skins and do it right. The "semi DA" setup won't perform as well as a real DA45. And P.S....Ultimate trucks aren't exactly falling off trees

By placing the plate optimally on the Bont, I think you could have the resulting wheelbase handle the needs of both indoor and outdoor skating with quite reasonable results. My only concerns would be with how much The U2 trucks might shorten the effective wheelbase, and whether the result would allow the 70mm or larger wheels to fit the plate without getting any wheel bite. The taller upper cushion size that the U2 truck requires would certainly help with reducing vibrations.

I will test my Skins Sz6 plates with the U2 trucks as soon as I can get the ball end mill i need to enlarge the delrin pivot cups. Will let you know the result with PIC in a few days.

As for the wheels, I will PM you with another new option.

-Armadillo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo
"Crank them down" if you want to choke up their action. The twitchiness comes form the design of the DA45's TRUCK GEOMETRY. Cranking down the cushions is merely an attempt to hide it, but it is always there.
You can tighten up the action on a DA45 and it will still turn quite well. And you don't have to "crank them down" the whole way. Apparently you missed where I said about the range of performance between jingly loose and super tight. If you actually took the time to try a pair and get them dialed in, you'd know that

To the OP....if you're looking for a skate that will perform admirably for both outdoor and indoor, I would go with the Bonts on the size 6 DA45 Skins. A longer wheelbase DA45 plate will still give you good performance indoor, and if you like less turn response for outdoor you can easily tighten the action down a bit. A lot of people talk about the DA45s being twitchy, but my Royals are one of the most stable plates I've skated and they still turn on a dime. Plus, you can get the DA45s with flip axles which would be nice for you to be able to easily swap out indoor and outdoor wheels since you plan to use these skates for both.
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