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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old September 21st, 2017, 08:40 PM   #21
amohrfeld
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Originally Posted by crimson View Post
I've heard that story before and it's between bull and oversimplification. It was more an issue of the owner having to leave for corporate reasons and not because of an idealistic search for the magic components.
Ha. I think there is a lot of truth to that.
The plate itself actually looks like it has some additional design features. The toe stop has a spring-like reaction and the slot is curved for better stress distribution. However, I'm not convinced it is a huge improvement. The lady was also trying to convince me they used a special metal with rubber in it. I called BS on that one. 7075 aluminium is about the best you'll get before going to titanium.
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Old September 21st, 2017, 11:07 PM   #22
larryoracing
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Location: Lomita, Ca, work in El Segundo, CA
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Smile Dear Amohrfeld,

The Dance plate is an excellent plate. Many people love them and at our rink almost every “Dancer” uses the Roll Line Dance plate.

I personally would not use the Dance plate for Freestyle or Figures, because it turns too easily. I feel one could twist an ankle doing freestyle with this plate and that your figures would be wobbly with the “Dance” plate.

Next, if you agree with me and Roll Line Recommendations that the “Dance” plate is excellent for dance and mediocre for Freestyle and Figures, you would mount a “Dance” boot to a Dance plate.

I have two Roll Line dance plates. The longer plate has mounted to it the EDEA “Dance” Boot/Flamenco and my shorter Dance plate has a set of beautiful all leather Berry Boots from Argentina mounted to them.

The Berry boots were specifically designed to do dance by their Best Dance Skaters.

I have to admit my Berry Skates/boots on the shorter 160 Roll Line Dance plate is my favorite skate, but it is tricky to skate on with the shorter boots.

The Longer dance plates (170) does fine with the EDEA Dance/Flamenco boot and feel fine and stable with the longer wheel base. This is a very stable and secure Dance Plate for Doing Dancing on.

I think you will find the Roll Line Dance plate superior to the Synder Imperial Skate if you want to do “Weave” type Dancing….going back and forth quickly/fast quick edges back and forth across a base line.

If you don’t do weave dances the Synder Imperial is a fine skate. I would like to hear more people talking about the Synder Royal for doing dance. Although the Royal and Imperial are similar in design and truck action , the cushions are vastly different and I think those different design in cushions could make the Syncer Royal Skate superior to the Imperial skate...just a guess???? Time will tell when people start to make a comparison...probably me...lol!

Sincerely,

Larry Otani


P.S. Happy skating. Nothing could be finer than a pair of Roll Line Dance plates.
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Old September 21st, 2017, 11:21 PM   #23
amohrfeld
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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
The Dance plate is an excellent plate. Many people love them and at our rink almost every “Dancer” uses the Roll Line Dance plate.

I personally would not use the Dance plate for Freestyle or Figures, because it turns too easily. I feel one could twist an ankle doing freestyle with this plate and that your figures would be wobbly with the “Dance” plate.

Next, if you agree with me and Roll Line Recommendations that the “Dance” plate is excellent for dance and mediocre for Freestyle and Figures, you would mount a “Dance” boot to a Dance plate.

I have two Roll Line dance plates. The longer plate has mounted to it the EDEA “Dance” Boot/Flamenco and my shorter Dance plate has a set of beautiful all leather Berry Boots from Argentina mounted to them.

The Berry boots were specifically designed to do dance by their Best Dance Skaters.

I have to admit my Berry Skates/boots on the shorter 160 Roll Line Dance plate is my favorite skate, but it is tricky to skate on with the shorter boots.

The Longer dance plates (170) does fine with the EDEA Dance/Flamenco boot and feel fine and stable with the longer wheel base. This is a very stable and secure Dance Plate for Doing Dancing on.

I think you will find the Roll Line Dance plate superior to the Synder Imperial Skate if you want to do “Weave” type Dancing….going back and forth quickly/fast quick edges back and forth across a base line.

If you don’t do weave dances the Synder Imperial is a fine skate. I would like to hear more people talking about the Synder Royal for doing dance. Although the Royal and Imperial are similar in design and truck action , the cushions are vastly different and I think those different design in cushions could make the Syncer Royal Skate superior to the Imperial skate...just a guess???? Time will tell when people start to make a comparison...probably me...lol!

Sincerely,

Larry Otani


P.S. Happy skating. Nothing could be finer than a pair of Roll Line Dance plates.
I'm using the same sure grip urethane cushions on my Royals and Imperials. I only mention the Imperial because of the length (171mm) is close to the dance plates I ordered (170mm). My Royals are 178mm. But I prefer the shorter length and willing to deal with the weight.

I'm not planning to invest any more into the Snyder products (but who knows what I'll find on ebay). Hopefully I can switch to the Dance and not look back.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 01:31 AM   #24
larryoracing
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Smile Did you modify the Imperials to fit the Royal Cushions.

I have a set of Imperials that have the old fashion "Barrell' cushions.

But my Ti Royals have a tapered cushion on the bottom that is rounded before going into the Cup. Also the bottom cushion is shorter in height.

The Royal Cushions even look like they could be smaller in diameter, but may be the same diameter as the Imperials.

So does your Royals and Imperial react the same. I could see how the Royals could react differently. I have never mounted up the Ti Royals to see how they would skate but even the adjustment seems weird. There is a nylon nut instead of they typical old fashion, allen wrench and 1/2" bolt lock down.

Thanks for any information.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. Don't get me wrong. The Dance plate is the most reactive, turning plate you can buy, by far.....but I think that can also be a detriment to the serious freestyle skaters doing doubles and a figure skater who want precise move around the Big circles.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 10:03 PM   #25
amohrfeld
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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post

So does your Royals and Imperial react the same.
Essentially Yes. They have the exact same geometry.

I have two small complaints of my Royals: 1. The length was restrictive for some moves. 2. I can actually feel the narrow width through the boot. But this only occurs when I focus on it.

Let me say I like cushions as soft as possible; to the point I start losing stability.

I first tried the blue (soft) cushions since I sometimes use those on the Snyder SD. They were way too soft for the added movement of the DA45 geometry.

Then I switched to the yellows (medium). They have been working well. I am even attempting single jumps on them. They have fairly good takeoff stability. (that's my biggest concern right now. My only issue with landing is the weight, but I don't even notice that any more.)

I'm also not using the cone cushion cups. I started doing this based on DOC's comments. I can't tell much of a performance difference, but the cushions take less abuse from the cup edge. One day I'll make a spacer to replace the barrel cushion cup too.

The urethane are dimensionally different then the rubber. The biggest difference is length. urethane is about .060" (1.5mm) longer.


20170922_153006[1] by Austin Mohrfeld, on Flickr
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:42 PM   #26
larryoracing
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Location: Lomita, Ca, work in El Segundo, CA
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Smile Dear Amohrfeld,

Thank you so much for the information. It is invaluable. It looks like you are showing the Imperial plate which is quite a bit heavier than the Royal/Ti. And you are using the cone shaped cushions on your Imperial skates and not the Barrel cushions that come stock. Also the Cushions top and bottom are taller (?) than the natural rubber cushions that come stock on the Synder Royal plates.

Also you are using the stock hardware for tightening the cushions on your Imperials and not the nylon nut and stud assembly that comes on the Royal speed skates.

I would love to see a picture of your Royal skates to make sure I know what setup you have on both skates, Imperial Vs Royal.

You are using the urethane Yellow cushions. On my present set up on my Imperial Skates I’m using the Red Stripe Synder Cushions which goes alone with your theory of soft cushion setup. The red stripe natural rubber Synder cushions are the “Soft” cushions.


I put these on the skates to see if I could free up the action of the trucks to make them turn easier, which they did but no comparison to a Roll Line Dance Plate.

Again thanks for all the wonderful information. The stock natural rubber cushions on my Royal skates are the White Stripe Natural Rubber, which is medium Hardness.

Again, I hope to someday mount up these skates to my Pro Star SP Teri Boots. My knees and legs are getting stronger since practicing backward edges and swings down the main straightaway of the rink and also practicing backward edges on the figure circles.

I wanted to see how these Royal skates would compare to the Imperials for Freestyle?

Imperial skates weigh 10 lbs. Energy skates weigh a mere 7lbs. Yes, Synders are lead bricks and when you are 62 years old and trying to jump and spin, you notice the difference in wt, which is substantial…lol!

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and happy skating!
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 02:38 AM   #27
amohrfeld
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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Thank you so much for the information. It is invaluable. It looks like you are showing the Imperial plate which is quite a bit heavier than the Royal/Ti. And you are using the cone shaped cushions on your Imperial skates and not the Barrel cushions that come stock. Also the Cushions top and bottom are taller (?) than the natural rubber cushions that come stock on the Synder Royal plates.

Correct. The longer barrel cushions will make the skate a little more turney. But if they are softer then the rubber, the cushion takes more pre-compression. Then it's a wash.

Also you are using the stock hardware for tightening the cushions on your Imperials and not the nylon nut and stud assembly that comes on the Royal speed skates.

Correct. It makes no difference to me which hardware I use. I keep tools for most systems in my bag. Compression is the same regardless. So I just use whatever I find on the plate.

I would love to see a picture of your Royal skates to make sure I know what setup you have on both skates, Imperial Vs Royal.

Here you go.

You are using the urethane Yellow cushions. On my present set up on my Imperial Skates I’m using the Red Stripe Synder Cushions which goes alone with your theory of soft cushion setup. The red stripe natural rubber Synder cushions are the “Soft” cushions.


I have never tried the softer rubber. The rubber hardens over time. I can purchase the urethane cheap. It is easier to experiment with urethane due to its availability.

I put these on the skates to see if I could free up the action of the trucks to make them turn easier, which they did but no comparison to a Roll Line Dance Plate.

Again thanks for all the wonderful information. The stock natural rubber cushions on my Royal skates are the White Stripe Natural Rubber, which is medium Hardness.

The stock rubber seems ok to me. An issue I have had is when the cushion compresses too much and is not replaced, it moves the pivot pin towards the king pin. This wears out the pivot pin and its cup.


Again, I hope to someday mount up these skates to my Pro Star SP Teri Boots. My knees and legs are getting stronger since practicing backward edges and swings down the main straightaway of the rink and also practicing backward edges on the figure circles.

I wanted to see how these Royal skates would compare to the Imperials for Freestyle?

Theoretically they will behave about the same except for the weight and cushion choice.

Imperial skates weigh 10 lbs. Energy skates weigh a mere 7lbs. Yes, Synders are lead bricks and when you are 62 years old and trying to jump and spin, you notice the difference in wt, which is substantial…lol!



20170922_195223[1] by Austin Mohrfeld, on Flickr
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