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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old June 18th, 2016, 02:18 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakablamo View Post
Those wheels are center-set, not side-set, so be careful. I'm not sure they will fit. From what I have read, basically all of the Orangatang wheels need to be machined in some manner for proper fit, even the Kegel on the inside.
And you were definitely right. The center-set wheels didn't even come close on my Snyder Advantage trucks, which are 2mm wider on each side than the Roll-Line trucks I plan on using outdoors.

Edit: I have decided to return the Orangatang wheels and grab a set of 70mm 78a Landyachtz Mini Zombie Hawgs. I don't mind the additional width.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
And you were definitely right. The center-set wheels didn't even come close on my Snyder Advantage trucks, which are 2mm wider on each side than the Roll-Line trucks I plan on using outdoors.

Edit: I have decided to return the Orangatang wheels and grab a set of 70mm 78a Landyachtz Mini Zombie Hawgs. I don't mind the additional width.
The Mini Z-Hawgs are not a true side set wheel hub either; they are a slight hub OFF SET on the inside, and will likely need at least 2-4mm trimmed off there.

I will check the Advantage plate I have to confirm fit.
It is worth asking here on compatibility concerns before pulling trigger on purchases, as many of have already gone down same tunnels, often having to also retreat.

OK → I checked and the Mini Z-Hawgs should fit with 1-2mm clearance from the hitting the truck's cushion platform without any cutting.

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Old June 18th, 2016, 04:28 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
The Mini Z-Hawgs are not a true side set wheel hub either; they are a slight hub OFF SET on the inside, and will likely need at least 2-4mm trimmed off there.

I will check the Advantage plate I have to confirm fit.
It is worth asking here on compatibility concerns before pulling trigger on purchases, as many of have already gone down same tunnels, often having to also retreat.

OK → I checked and the Mini Z-Hawgs should fit with 1-2mm clearance from the truck's axle stub end without any cutting.

-Armadillo
I would actually prefer to use them on my Roll-Line plates, but if they're that close when using an Advantage truck, it will most likely hit the Roll-Line truck.

Edit: Or, I can add a 1mm spacer before mounting the wheels. I have them in there for the Flyers anyway.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
I would actually prefer to use them on my Roll-Line plates, but if they're that close when using an Advantage truck, it will most likely hit the Roll-Line truck.

Edit: Or, I can add a 1mm spacer before mounting the wheels. I have them in there for the Flyers anyway.
Yeah, the spacer behind the wheel can solve that issue, as long as adequate axle protrusion is available. Remember these are longboard wheels, and the hub design has bearings spaced further out.

This is another good reason to get the Downhill Bomber bearings, since their free spacers would likely match the bearing spacing of Mini Z-Hawgs' hub dimension, except for the fact that the Roll Line axles are likely going to be a 7mm mismatch to the Rush hybrid bearing's ID.

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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:06 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Yeah, the spacer behind the wheel can solve that issue, as long as adequate axle protrusion is available. Remember these are longboard wheels, and the hub design has bearings spaced further out.

This is another good reason to get the Downhill Bomber bearings, since their free spacers would likely match the bearing spacing of Mini Z-Hawgs' hub dimension, except for the fact that the Roll Line axles are likely going to be a 7mm mismatch to the Rush hybrid bearing's ID.

-Armadillo
I don't use spacers in my quad wheels at all. I don't know of many that do. Mainly because you use a nylock nut and don't fully tighten them down.

Inlines are a different story. I use spacers in all of my inline wheels, because you have to tighten the axles all the way down.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:36 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
I don't use spacers in my quad wheels at all. I don't know of many that do. Mainly because you use a nylock nut and don't fully tighten them down.

Inlines are a different story. I use spacers in all of my inline wheels, because you have to tighten the axles all the way down.
When you move into the realm of rolling on longboard wheels, their hubs having a typically wider (than quad wheels) 0.4" internal bearing spacing, means that your axle nuts will not as fully engage with the axle threads.

Depending on the amount of axle length available, this can be a problem, but if spacers are in place and axle nuts are torqued hard against the bearing H/W "stack," then the potential insufficient grip of the nylon is no longer a concern.

Having trucks with extra length available on their axles is always a good thing when switching over to longboard wheels.

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Old June 22nd, 2016, 04:30 PM   #187
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Looks like my skates will be swapping duties for a little while. The Mini Zombie Hawgs did not fit on the more narrow Roll-Line trucks, even with a 1mm spacer on the inside of the wheel. Most likely, the retaining nut would have had only a thread or two to grab onto anyway when using the spacing washer.

So, my nice clean, new Bont/Snyder setup will be pulling outdoors. I did end up using spacers in the wheels, since the axles were a bit short for the longboard wheels and the nuts were required to be flipped over (a MAJOR pain to get them on in this direction) and tightened down.

I will be carrying a 7/16" nut driver with me, since I do not think any of the aluminum threads in the nylock nuts contact the axle threads. I may be wrong, since they did tighten down quite a bit.

Since the plates were mounted with t-nuts, there won't be any clearance issues with the 70mm OD wheels.

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Old June 23rd, 2016, 12:00 AM   #188
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Default Not happy . . .

Well, my love for outdoor quad skating may die quickly. I tried the new wheels on the new skates and wasn't very impressed. Mostly because I didn't trust that the nuts weren't going to back out and lose a wheel.

Also, since I didn't have any 7mm bearing spacers long enough to fit the larger bearing spacing of the longboard wheels, I used self-centering inline spacers, which were long enough, but as soon as a nut did give a little, the spacers rattled around. It sounded like I have Mexican jumping beans in my wheels.

So, two questions before I give up on longboard wheels altogether:

1) Does anyone make a 7mm spacer that will fit properly inside longboard wheels without having to mill them?

2) Are there any alternatives to the nylock nuts for the 9/32-32 Snyder axles? (maybe old-school loose-ball lock nuts?)
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 04:49 AM   #189
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If the bearing spacer is wide enough to crank the axle nut tight, then a nylon insert lock nut is not required. You could just use a thin 9/32-32 "speed nut" and put a drop of loctite blue on it. Should stay tight if it is well torqued and the Loctite hardens.


Proper 0.4" width sized spacers are more readily available for 8mm axle size than 7mm axle size, which was why I suggested getting a set of 8mm 608 bearings to go with the Mini Z-Hawgs, but then you would need to put 7mm X 8mm axle sleeve on the Snyder 7mm axles and they usually suck for having a poor fit to both 7mm axle OD and to the 7mm bearing IDs.

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Old June 23rd, 2016, 03:35 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
If the bearing spacer is wide enough to crank the axle nut tight, then a nylon insert lock nut is not required. You could just use a thin 9/32-32 "speed nut" and put a drop of loctite blue on it. Should stay tight if it is well torqued and the Loctite hardens.


Proper 0.4" width sized spacers are more readily available for 8mm axle size than 7mm axle size, which was why I suggested getting a set of 8mm 608 bearings to go with the Mini Z-Hawgs, but then you would need to put 7mm X 8mm axle sleeve on the Snyder 7mm axles and they usually suck for having a poor fit to both 7mm axle OD and to the 7mm bearing IDs.

-Armadillo
Well, this is getting too complicated for what I need them for. So, I'm going to post the new Hawg for sale and go back to the Radar Flyer wheels that worked fairly well.

Live and learn.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 11:06 AM   #191
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Default Spacers and more...

I used different kinds of longboard wheels over the years without spacers on Rolline-Axles and had never missed them.

The original nuts fit fine without a spacer disc, only I use a tiny bit of Loctite 243 from time to time.

BUT: You have to cut the wheels on the inside, which is no big deal and you
dont have to deal with any of the difficulties.

Or you buy Zombie Hawgs 76mm they fit out of the box.

Johannes
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Old June 24th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by yedaki_de View Post
I used different kinds of longboard wheels over the years without spacers on Rolline-Axles and had never missed them.

The original nuts fit fine without a spacer disc, only I use a tiny bit of Loctite 243 from time to time.

BUT: You have to cut the wheels on the inside, which is no big deal and you
dont have to deal with any of the difficulties.

Or you buy Zombie Hawgs 76mm they fit out of the box.

Johannes
I tried the 70mm and they didn't fit very well. I don't have access to anyone with a lathe, so I'd have to send them, which I don't want to do.

I'm happy w/ the Radar Flyers, so I'm going to stick with them.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 01:16 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
Looks like my skates will be swapping duties for a little while. The Mini Zombie Hawgs did not fit on the more narrow Roll-Line trucks, even with a 1mm spacer on the inside of the wheel. Most likely, the retaining nut would have had only a thread or two to grab onto anyway when using the spacing washer.

So, my nice clean, new Bont/Snyder setup will be pulling outdoors. I did end up using spacers in the wheels, since the axles were a bit short for the longboard wheels and the nuts were required to be flipped over (a MAJOR pain to get them on in this direction) and tightened down.

I will be carrying a 7/16" nut driver with me, since I do not think any of the aluminum threads in the nylock nuts contact the axle threads. I may be wrong, since they did tighten down quite a bit.

Since the plates were mounted with t-nuts, there won't be any clearance issues with the 70mm OD wheels.
I am still not clear why you thought you needed to reverse the nylon insert axle nuts (yes it is a pain to get them started reversed)?

If you have proper sized and fitted bearing spacers inside the wheels, the nylon grip of a normal axle nut is not required, since the higher torque tightening alone can keep the nut in place with the higher friction developed from greater compression of the stack of items on the axle being crushed by the nut.

In fact, when the amount of nut to axle thread engagement is minimum, you DON'T want to have the nylon side of nut going on first, as it cannot be properly torqued to a high enough level, without stripping the nylon, to safely secure the wheels on the axles.

Put the metal side of nut on 1st, torque them down TIGHT and leave the nylon side sticking out. Friction from high torque will hold them on, and you can also add the drop of Loctite, for peace of mind, if you like.

I suggest at least two full turns of metal to metal engagement is needed for applying a safely high enough level of torque, without stripping the metal thread.
As the amount of thread engagement drops, the peak nut torque must be reduced accordingly, and adding the Loctite becomes a greater concern.

If tightly torquing the wheels against the trucks triggers any of their bearing balls to start being pinched, and those wheels to stop spinning freely, then they will need more width for their bearing spacers to be added with thin, shim washers. Hopefully, that doesn't happen, because it is just another tedious task to be added to an overall tedious project.

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Old June 24th, 2016, 01:27 PM   #194
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I am still not clear why you thought you needed to reverse the nylon insert axle nuts (yes it is a pain to get them started reversed)?

If you have proper sized and fitted bearing spacers inside the wheels, the nylon grip of a normal axle nut is not required, since the higher torque tightening alone can keep the nut in place with the higher friction developed from greater compression of the stack of items on the axle being crushed by the nut.

In fact, when the amount of nut to axle thread engagement is minimum, you DON'T want to have the nylon side of nut going on first, as it cannot be properly torqued to a high enough level to safely secure the wheels on the axles.

Put the metal side of nut on 1st, torque them down TIGHT and leave the nylon side sticking out. Friction from high torque will hold them on, and you can also add the drop of Loctite, for peace of mind, if you like.

If tightly torquing the wheels triggers any to cause their bearing balls to start being pinched, and wheels to stop spinning freely, then more width for that bearing spacer must be added with thin shim washers. Hopefully that doesnt happen.

-Armadillo
The point is that I do NOT have proper spacers and finding a 7mm x 10mm spacer is next to impossible (ask me how I know).

Roller skate bearing spacing is 8mm, while longboard bearing spacing is 10mm (as you're aware of). I do not have access to a machinist, so I'm S.O.L.

I used 8mm self-centering inline wheel spacers, wince they are also 10mm (why isn't there a standard across the board here?). I then turned the nylock nuts around. Unfortunately, a few backed out and all I heard from those wheels was the rattling of the bearing spacers as they became loose. So, I lost faith in the setup.

I'm not a fan of loctite. It gums up threads. I'm also not a fan of 8mm-7mm reducers for the reasons you stated. I also do not have extra 8mm bearings. Although, I have extra sets, they are all allocated to inline wheels for different purposes (indoor practice set [1x12], indoor meet sets [2x12], outdoor sets [2x12]) and I rarely remove them, unless I get new wheels or do bearing maintenance.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 01:38 PM   #195
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The point is that I do NOT have proper spacers and finding a 7mm x 10mm spacer is next to impossible (ask me how I know).

Roller skate bearing spacing is 8mm, while longboard bearing spacing is 10mm (as you're aware of). I do not have access to a machinist, so I'm S.O.L.

I used 8mm self-centering inline wheel spacers, wince they are also 10mm (why isn't there a standard across the board here?). I then turned the nylock nuts around. Unfortunately, a few backed out and all I heard from those wheels was the rattling of the bearing spacers as they became loose. So, I lost faith in the setup.

I'm not a fan of loctite. It gums up threads. I'm also not a fan of 8mm-7mm reducers for the reasons you stated. I also do not have extra 8mm bearings. Although, I have extra sets, they are all allocated to inline wheels for different purposes (indoor practice set [1x12], indoor meet sets [2x12], outdoor sets [2x12]) and I rarely remove them, unless I get new wheels or do bearing maintenance.
I have used a sardine can to make spiral rolled up axle sleeves for fitting 8mm spacers on a 7mm axle. Once you figure out the correct rectangle size to cut and find the right diameter rod on which to roll the rectangle it is fairly easy.

This rolled sleeve only needs to keep the spacer roughly centered, not perfect, and the 8mm spacer end will still overlap with the 7mm inner races enough to lock the wheels on the axle without a nylon nut.

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Old June 24th, 2016, 02:09 PM   #196
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I have used a sardine can to make spiral rolled up axle sleeves for fitting 8mm spacers on a 7mm axle. Once you figure out the correct rectangle size to cut and find the right diameter rod on which to roll the rectangle it is fairly easy.

This rolled sleeve only needs to keep the spacer roughly centered, not perfect, and the 8mm spacer end will still overlap with the 7mm inner races enough to lock the wheels on the axle without a nylon nut.

-Armadillo
Too much work. IMO, if it doesn't work OOTB, it's not meant to work.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 01:25 AM   #197
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Anyone ever try Cult Classic wheels? They come in 70x46 (30mm contact patch) and 66x45 (34mm contact patch), both are 80a and backset.

I'm thinking they'd stick out the side pretty far. It's odd that the smaller diameter wheels have the larger contact patch.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 02:57 AM   #198
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I like these. 65 x 30, 78A

Wear good and feel fast on rough to normal outdoor conditions. Fairly inexpensive. Plastic core.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTku3x1DXR4/

Sorry I only have link for a pic.
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