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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old February 25th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #41
Bill in Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Except the right foot looks about normal, the left is Bass ackwards.... BOTH plates are biased left on indoor inlines....
hmm. so from where i sit, it sort of makes sense that the center of balance of someone's foot is the same regardless of whether they are on quads or inlines.

did you daughter like her quad plates mounted toward the arch like this?

no matter what, if it is not what you are used to, it's going to be problematic.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #42
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Default My daughters quads...

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hmm. so from where i sit, it sort of makes sense that the center of balance of someone's foot is the same regardless of whether they are on quads or inlines.

did you daughter like her quad plates mounted toward the arch like this?

no matter what, if it is not what you are used to, it's going to be problematic.
Are not mounted like anything else I have done... Short and to the rear.... The heel distance was taken from the pair she had been in since she was 12, (size 6) looks odd on her 8s but that is where she likes it....

The axis is centered, nothing like her inlines... Edging is a different beast... That is why a lot of quad sk8rs never figure inlines out... They are NOT set up like quads... Well maybe cheap inlines are set up like cheap quads...
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Except the right foot looks about normal, the left is Bass ackwards.... BOTH plates are biased left on indoor inlines....
Doc,
As a speed coach, I notice that only on beginner skaters have both frames biased left. Look at older more experienced skaters and you will notice the majority move the left frame back toward the inside of the boot, and more under the ball of the foot. As technique improves and the knee is kept more inline with the hip and foot, the natural and more efficient place for power transfer is closer to the inside of the foot.
Look at any picture of Chad or Joey's frame allignment and you can clearly see what i'm talking about
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Old February 25th, 2010, 04:10 PM   #44
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...but that is where she likes it....

The axis is centered, nothing like her inlines... Edging is a different beast... That is why a lot of quad sk8rs never figure inlines out... They are NOT set up like quads... Well maybe cheap inlines are set up like cheap quads...
Kids these days!!

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for the education.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:05 PM   #45
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Good thing I'm broke as a joke or I'd build a mount like this to see what it really does. being just 1/8" in, it doesn't seem to do too much, which is good in a way. I just want to try it for myself so I know what I am talking about. Hell, maybe he's on to something. Or maybe not.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #46
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Default got links??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jshipman View Post
Doc,
As a speed coach, I notice that only on beginner skaters have both frames biased left. Look at older more experienced skaters and you will notice the majority move the left frame back toward the inside of the boot, and more under the ball of the foot. As technique improves and the knee is kept more inline with the hip and foot, the natural and more efficient place for power transfer is closer to the inside of the foot.
Look at any picture of Chad or Joey's frame allignment and you can clearly see what i'm talking about

I'm always interested in learning something new.. Just to be clear, these are indoor shots you are speaking about??
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 02:29 AM   #47
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Default lets keep beating a dead horse

Here is a forum member's skates purchased from the guru:

Mounted a tad inside:


Mounted a wee bit back, actually, all the way back. The front axle was right at the ball of the foot, if not slightly behind. The skates were a tipsy forward, especially for a skater switching between inlines and quads.:



After.... mounted up Doc style:


Plates moved a little forward of the ball of the foot. Mounting hardware is set all the way at the front of the slots, so the plate can go further forward:



Hopefully we have a happy skater in the end.

As far the original mount..... I can see no rhyme or reason as to how they were mounted. The closest similarity between the left and right was that the plates were centered relative to the stitching. I dunno.... ~shrugs shoulders~
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:23 AM   #48
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Default OK speed coach...

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Originally Posted by Jshipman View Post
Doc,
As a speed coach, I notice that only on beginner skaters have both frames biased left. Look at older more experienced skaters and you will notice the majority move the left frame back toward the inside of the boot, and more under the ball of the foot. As technique improves and the knee is kept more inline with the hip and foot, the natural and more efficient place for power transfer is closer to the inside of the foot.
Look at any picture of Chad or Joey's frame allignment and you can clearly see what i'm talking about
Look here.



The top 500 meter skater in World Cup and Olympic gold medalist...Charles Hamelin. Please note the beginner (as described by you) alignment of his blades... Left foot aligned to the left, Right foot aligned slightly to the left.

Looks like a Marchese Short track boot on top of the Bont blade.... just for trivia sake.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:25 AM   #49
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Default You will keep us posted??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post

Hopefully we have a happy skater in the end.

As far the original mount..... I can see no rhyme or reason as to how they were mounted. The closest similarity between the left and right was that the plates were centered relative to the stitching. I dunno.... ~shrugs shoulders~
When will she sk8 'em??
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:54 AM   #50
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Default Yaw mule

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Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
Mounted a tad inside:
I'd say. Actually, this picture is very telling. The ancient Chinese secret appears to be that he lines up the center of the front of the plate with the center of the tip of the boot, much as you might line up the back to the heel. Sure looks that way to me.

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Mounted a wee bit back, actually, all the way back. The front axle was right at the ball of the foot, if not slightly behind. The skates were a tipsy forward, especially for a skater switching between inlines and quads.
I thought Okie moved to Arizona?

Quote:
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Plates moved a little forward of the ball of the foot. Mounting hardware is set all the way at the front of the slots, so the plate can go further forward:
Ah, much better. I'll spare the rant about the plate size. Still looks like a nice setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
Hopefully we have a happy skater in the end.
I hope so too.

I was all set to build my own "Buckeye Wonder" this past weekend, but events conspired against me. After seeing this, I'm a lot less inclined to do it. Most people are smart enough to know what BS is without ever having stepped in it themselves.
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Last edited by Doc Sk8; March 2nd, 2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Buckete??
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 05:56 AM   #51
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I noticed those ST skaters with their Left foot! Woah talk about some strong ankles to hold them suckers up without pronation at all.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 12:43 PM   #52
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When will she sk8 'em??
HE will skate them this Thursday.

Quote:
I'd say. Actually, this picture is very telling. The ancient Chinese secret appears to be that he lines up the center of the front of the plate with the center of the tip of the boot, much as you might line up the back to the heel. Sure looks that way to me.
I thought so too, but that is not the case with these skates. The plates were not mounted the same on either boot relative to the tip of the boot. They were aligned perfectly to the stitching in the sole.

Quote:
I'll spare the rant about the plate size.
Just working with what I had. I'm not going to complain about length, especially since the skater is primarly an inline skater. I'll settle for a decent mount at this point. It is a size 11.5 boot with a size 10 plate. Not too bad really, could be worse.

Quote:
"Buckeye Wonder"
HAHAHAHAHA nice. He is sponsoring a skate workshop for the local derby leagues. I might have to go.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Look here.



The top 500 meter skater in World Cup and Olympic gold medalist...Charles Hamelin. Please note the beginner (as described by you) alignment of his blades... Left foot aligned to the left, Right foot aligned slightly to the left.

Looks like a Marchese Short track boot on top of the Bont blade.... just for trivia sake.
Doc,
Your original comment was directed toward indoor inline allignment. Ice short track is a different ball game. Short track ice involves a much greater lean angle, a blade that is rockered, and clearance issues. All much different than an inline skate
I'm at work right now, but will try and attach pictures at home tonight
Here is one from the USA Roller Sports website.



Take a look at some of the pictures here:
http://www.pronsc.com/photos/tribula.../pictures.html
Particularly pic 8 of Joey, and pic 14 of Steve

Last edited by Jshipman; March 2nd, 2010 at 03:48 PM. Reason: addition of pictures
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 04:42 PM   #54
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I mean, both of you are correct. Some really great skaters go assymmetrical, and some don't. Some noobs go asymmetrical, and some don't. It's just personal preference.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 03:03 PM   #55
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I've seen weird setups for bow-legged skaters. I haven't mounted one like that yet but I am interested in seeing or hearing about it. Anyone?
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Old March 11th, 2010, 04:58 PM   #56
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I want to just so I know what I am talking about. His mounts are showing up more and more on my girls, with mixed results.

The newer skaters are having a hard time with them and its slowing thier learning curve, but they aren't unskatable. The stronger skaters are making them work, and have been convinced through the miracle of marketing that they are actually skating better; after all, as I was told, this is a "derby specific" mount, not for speed or rec skating. As near as I can tell, he takes very good skaters, blows sunshine up their asses about how he mounts his skates, then points them out to every other derby skater making it sound like the reason they skate as well as they do is because of his mounting.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 05:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
HE will skate them this Thursday.



I thought so too, but that is not the case with these skates. The plates were not mounted the same on either boot relative to the tip of the boot. They were aligned perfectly to the stitching in the sole.



Just working with what I had. I'm not going to complain about length, especially since the skater is primarly an inline skater. I'll settle for a decent mount at this point. It is a size 11.5 boot with a size 10 plate. Not too bad really, could be worse.



HAHAHAHAHA nice. He is sponsoring a skate workshop for the local derby leagues. I might have to go.

HE= me...and if my kitchen floor skating sessions are any litmus test..they are so much more stable for me, and 100% less tipsey. kennedy delivered, he just should have stayed longer at our practice

also, short track blads are radiused as well as rockered.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 07:36 PM   #58
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HE= me...and if my kitchen floor skating sessions are any litmus test..they are so much more stable for me, and 100% less tipsey. kennedy delivered, he just should have stayed longer at our practice
I really should have stayed, but it was our last bout practice before our next bout. Since I am not the head ref, I really needed to be there. Actually, I ended up being a little late. Oops. Maybe if I have a sunday night free I will stop over and visit.

Hope to see you at session tonight.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #59
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Like I said, I really wish I had another set of mules that I could try this kind of mount on because all I have to go on right now is every established skate builder I have every spoken to saying "this shouldn't work well" and more and more of my girls skating on them. If they suck, I want to know why so I can tell the girls more than just "this shouldn't work". If they work great, I want to know that to so that I can stop telling the girls that they aren't mounted well. Since I AM broke, I would like to have someone I trust with no vested interest in the outcome who has the means to build this kind of mount and skate it themselves, then give us feedback. I hear that they shouldn't be very good, but they don't seem to bother the stronger skaters on the team, so they either don't know anything about skate building, or the mount isn't really that bad. Either could be true. Hell, both could be true.

Just line it up like you would a standard mount, them move both plates about 1/8" or so toward the instep on both skates, and there you are.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #60
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Like I said, I really wish I had another set of mules that I could try this kind of mount on because all I have to go on right now is every established skate builder I have every spoken to saying "this shouldn't work well" and more and more of my girls skating on them. If they suck, I want to know why so I can tell the girls more than just "this shouldn't work". If they work great, I want to know that to so that I can stop telling the girls that they aren't mounted well. Since I AM broke, I would like to have someone I trust with no vested interest in the outcome who has the means to build this kind of mount and skate it themselves, then give us feedback. I hear that they shouldn't be very good, but they don't seem to bother the stronger skaters on the team, so they either don't know anything about skate building, or the mount isn't really that bad. Either could be true. Hell, both could be true.

Just line it up like you would a standard mount, them move both plates about 1/8" or so toward the instep on both skates, and there you are.
it didnt work for me ..and made me a sad panda....kennedy hooked it up
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