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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old December 16th, 2017, 01:05 AM   #1
Dekindy
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Default Switching from speed to dance

Currently have Riedell 695 boot(so heel, not flat), Powerdyne Neo Reactor plate, and Suregrip Zombie 92 wheels.

Originally started skating with the goal of becoming a roller derby referee so speed skates were the best choice. Goals change and now I want to session skate, rhythm and jam and dance is the skating that I want to do. Taking lessons from a very good skater and he recommends a higher top boot with more heel.

Thinking about a EDEA Classica boot, Roll Line Variant plate, and Rollerbones Elite wheels 103's.

Different type boots, more reactive plates, and much harder and narrower wheels are going to be a lot of changes to digest at once. Ater purchasing beginner speed skates changed the wheels, then the plate, and finally the boots but had a chance to adjust to one change at a time.

I have another year of skating and am now starting to work on intermediate skills so would now be easier for me to adjust to new skates.

Wondering if anyone else has made this dramatic change in equipment and how long it took them to adjust to the higher boot/heel, more reactive plate, and harder, narrow wheels? Have read about skaters having the heels cut down because they felt they could not adjust to the higher heel.
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Old December 16th, 2017, 02:14 AM   #2
sk84luv
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IMO, there is no reason to use an artistic boot for jam or shuffle skating. Save your money on buying new boots. The Roll-Line plate is a good idea, though.

It isn't natural for us to be walking around in high heels, so why are skate boots made with high heels. No one has ever given me a good reason.

Some people easily adjust to an artistic boot, some don't, and go back to low cut, low heel, no heel. I tried a friends jam boots, and continually felt as though I was going to fall backwards. In an art boot, you may feel as if you are going to face plant.

Another problem with high heeled boots is the development of Morton'e neuroma, and other foot pain.

I have artistic boots because when I started skating in 1989, those were all the rink had for sale.

Going from your current boot to an Edea, is quite a stretch.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #3
40yearslater
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A different view:
I skate mainly with art boots (Riedell 120 - the low-end boot, but have skated in 297s).
I also skated for about a year or two in a low cut set-up (the budget Riedell, R3, I think) after putting a Suregrip DA45 degree plate on it. I liked the plate so much that I put them on the 120s and went back to the higher boot.
I personally like the higher boot, just seems to give greater control - smooth and easy transitions.
I didn't have any difficulty getting used to differing heel heights, going back and forth between the two set-ups a number of times. For me, the heel keeps you forward, on the balls of your feet, in athletic stance, like skiing - knee and weight centered over the pivot. I think that you can adjust to either low or high.
As far as reactiveness: the DA45 were significantly more responsive than the baseline plates that came with the 120s originally.
I think it might take a couple of sessions, but the increased responsiveness in plates is an incredible improvement. The adaptation kicks in pretty quickly: different modes.
The Edea and Roll-line Variant are both really high quality, but both would serve you well, I think. I think the Edea has a substantially higher heel than Riedell. The Riedell 220 looks pretty good, might be worth looking at. Less pricey than the Edea or the 297. (Though I think the Edea and Variant are available as a bundle/package.)
103 wheels will slide a lot more easily. If you skate on a wood floor, that can open up a whole different aspect. Seems the Detroit and Chicago skaters work with that quality - decreased grip seems to allow for quicker, smooth changes. Probably slide out a few times before you find that point where the grip gives way. Then there's that whole sideways slide thing in Detroit....
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Old December 17th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #4
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I have been searching for someone with your experience so thank you very much for taking the time to share.

You switched from a 15-degree plate to a 45-degree(really 30=degree) plate? Probe to Avenger? I was considering and have read many skaters that swear by the more responsive plate but significant numbers that either could not adjust or just plain preferred a more stable/speed plate and went back to a less responsive plate.

As you noted the Edea heel is taller than the Riedell high top boot which is taller than my low cut boot heel. A few skaters found the Edea boot heel too tall and had it cut down. Guess I could try it and always cut it if needed. I thought the 15-degree Roll Line and it's superior action would plenty of responsiveness for me since I can turn the 10-degree speed plate fairly well. 120 boot might be a good price point to experiment and probably would last me quite awhile.

Thanks again. Would appreciate any more insight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40yearslater View Post
A different view:
I skate mainly with art boots (Riedell 120 - the low-end boot, but have skated in 297s).
I also skated for about a year or two in a low cut set-up (the budget Riedell, R3, I think) after putting a Suregrip DA45 degree plate on it. I liked the plate so much that I put them on the 120s and went back to the higher boot.
I personally like the higher boot, just seems to give greater control - smooth and easy transitions.
I didn't have any difficulty getting used to differing heel heights, going back and forth between the two set-ups a number of times. For me, the heel keeps you forward, on the balls of your feet, in athletic stance, like skiing - knee and weight centered over the pivot. I think that you can adjust to either low or high.
As far as reactiveness: the DA45 were significantly more responsive than the baseline plates that came with the 120s originally.
I think it might take a couple of sessions, but the increased responsiveness in plates is an incredible improvement. The adaptation kicks in pretty quickly: different modes.
The Edea and Roll-line Variant are both really high quality, but both would serve you well, I think. I think the Edea has a substantially higher heel than Riedell. The Riedell 220 looks pretty good, might be worth looking at. Less pricey than the Edea or the 297. (Though I think the Edea and Variant are available as a bundle/package.)
103 wheels will slide a lot more easily. If you skate on a wood floor, that can open up a whole different aspect. Seems the Detroit and Chicago skaters work with that quality - decreased grip seems to allow for quicker, smooth changes. Probably slide out a few times before you find that point where the grip gives way. Then there's that whole sideways slide thing in Detroit....
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Old December 18th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #5
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The true question here is, what style will you be skating mostly?

That would determine how much control and balance you need, and where...

Reason being, jamskating in its entirety is substantially more difficult to be precise in an art boot. (Tried it, felt next to impossible, not to mention the added weight)

Inversely, soul/JB/rhythm skating is about physically impossible to make look right in speed skates. (Tried that one too, several times over)

It truly does depend on what the majority of your intent (style) is.

It's like comparing a top fuel dragster to a car built for autocross. Different designs, different uses...

I'd get a speed boot with a slightly taller heelblock. Best of both worlds!

Just my .02...
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Old December 18th, 2017, 09:20 PM   #6
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Yes, good point by likkwid, which gets back to sk84luv's answer as well.
Rhythm/JB or jam?
I will defer to them with respect to a lower heel if you are more interested in jam.
(I've never done it.)
As far as the plates, I think that it was in fact a probe that I initially started with on the 120. I'd replaced the (nylon?) plate on the R3 with and Invader (which I think preceded the Avenger).
I put MagAvengers on the 120s after that.

I should say that part of the reason that I prefer the DA 45 is that my rink has a sport court floor, a form of tile. It gives quite a bit. I use softer wheels (~98 duro ?) which actually seem to roll better over the soft floor. The increased responsiveness of the plate helps compensate for interaction of the bigger, softer wheels and more irregularly supported floor (it has softer and harder spots).
Basically, there is a lot of give in the interaction of the skate and the floor. With a harder floor, you wouldn't need that much turn.

I think that the Roll line would be plenty responsive on a harder more uniform floor. From what I have read, plates like the Century are very popular in rhythm skating, they are 10 degrees. Go well with the floor and style. DA 45 would probably be squirrely on a hard floor. (I did it once on a wood floor with the R3 Invader set-up. Doable but maybe not the best.) 15 would be good, I think, right in the middle, tipping toward response.

And yeah, the 120 was a real surprise. Thick, rubber/foam/sponge type of lining: felt comfortable from the get-go. If anything, built more durably that the 297 and 220 - thicker leather. Maybe not as snug to the foot, but I've been really happy with it. Been my main skate for most of five years, and they are still in great shape. For the price, they are a really good buy.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #7
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Thanks for the responses, very helpful.

Probably use existing skates for speed and jam skating.

Thinking of the 2nd pair of skates to do more artistic/dance/precision type skating.

Not sure I need a second pair of skates. Don't know whether to improve my skills more before trying something different or if skates with more control and turning ability would improve my skating. Decisions, decisions. Wish I could try a pair before purchasing but have not been able to find a way as don't know anybody with the type of skate package I am considering in my size. Everybody I know plays derby and has speed skates.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 02:18 AM   #8
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Try a set of rentals, perhaps???

Just tossing ideas, really.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekindy View Post
Thanks for the responses, very helpful.

Probably use existing skates for speed and jam skating.

Thinking of the 2nd pair of skates to do more artistic/dance/precision type skating.

Not sure I need a second pair of skates. Don't know whether to improve my skills more before trying something different or if skates with more control and turning ability would improve my skating. Decisions, decisions. Wish I could try a pair before purchasing but have not been able to find a way as don't know anybody with the type of skate package I am considering in my size. Everybody I know plays derby and has speed skates.
Here's an example of skates you can find on ebay. This is a very good deal for someone on a budget. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rie...8AAOSwYxBaMXSn
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Old December 19th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #10
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Yeah, Dekindy.
Good thinking with regard to improving before buying.
In general, from my own observation and experience, 80-90 percent is the skater rather than the skate.
But at a certain point, the skate does make a difference.

To keep working on the new stuff, and try to get the chance to try out some other set-ups sounds like a good idea. You can find out what works for you.

In general, like a lot of things, I've found that once you go above a certain price range, you reach diminishing returns - the incremental gain from equipment performance doesn't match the increase in cost. You can do really well with mid-range gear.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #11
larryoracing
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Dear Dekindy,

I have not made the switch from Speed to Dance. I basically was trained as an Artistic Skater who skated Dance, Figures and Freestyle in local and regional competitions, when I was a youth/under 25 years old.

As an adult/62 years old I have returned to skating and do the same things, Dance, Figures and Freestyle, but don’t compete in Freestyle yet…lol, more to come!

In the old days there were two kinds of Artistic Skates. The Sure Grip Classic, which you can still buy and the Synder Skates, which I bought the Imperial/45 degree trucks.

As far as boots, I think the standard was the 297, but I bought the Gold Star.

If you know your size there are many used skates on Ebay, that have either the 120, 220 or 297 boots mounted to a Synder Deluxe plate (standard trucks action) or the Imperial (45 degree trucks). These skates come with wheels so you can reuse the bearings. And many times these wheels have excellent bearings…like the Fafnirs.

So, all you got to do now is buy a new set of wheels, which I would suggest the Bones 101A for starters/not the 103A.

So for a very low cost, you could buy yourself a used pair of skates, Boots and brand new wheels for under 250 dollars total. That is an excellent way to get into a Artistic Boot.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. I have lot of the Brand New Skates/Roll Lines and Fancy Boots, like…. Edea, SP Teri, Reidell and Berry, not to mention lot of Trick Wheels, but you can get yourself into a used pair of Artistic Skates, Cheaply and really have a good time until you’re ready to drop a 1000 dollars on a New Pair of trick skates,Line Roll Line, Edea or STD Wheels. Good Luck!
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Old December 21st, 2017, 02:09 PM   #12
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+1 on the Snyder plate recommendation.
Snyder quality is as good as it gets.

(If I remember correctly from the book of skate history from the U.S. Roller Skating Museum, Snyder came up with the current design of skate plates and hangers using cushions in the form that we now know.)

Another option, would be to get a pair of new boots that you know fit well - break them in to your feet (like a Riedell 120 or 220), get some skates from eBay with Snyder plates and put the plates on the new boots.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 03:50 AM   #13
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Been searching Ebay and older model boots either come in only one width or the labeling methodology is different than current models. Have received replies on a couple of prospects that I questioned the width but they have not been helpful. Do art boots come in narrow, medium, and wide and use N,M, and W as the designation instead of the A,B,C, and D that are on current speed boots? One pair says 8 1/2N on the box.

Also not confident if I should use the size 8.5 D/B that I wear in the Riedell 695 as a guide?

Any thoughts?
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Old January 13th, 2018, 12:57 AM   #14
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Hey, Dekindy, sorry this is late in replying.
I just checked a pair of Riedells (297), and yes, I think that the width specifications - at least for Riedell - are as you said" N,M and W.
Riedell has always run pretty true to listed size in my experience.

As far as the 8.5 D/B in the case of your 695 boots, I haven't a clue as to the D/B, but if 8.5 fits, I would think that 8.5 would be the best bet for an art boot
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Old January 21st, 2018, 10:30 PM   #15
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Snyder quality isn't quite what it used to be... with all the new designs that have came forth and emphasis placed on the product lines, sure-grip's acquisition of so many brands, reverse engineering.... blah blah bl......


OP had me stuck on one point that throws a wrench in all of it. Sport court. You could have a million dollar setup and those floors still ruin a lot of the experience. But, roll with what you got, right?

These floors are engineered (typically) for inline hockey, so from several years of previous experience, you'll expend more energy just fighting for enough grip to stand up than skate, unless you run similar wheel durometers to the inline hockey wheels. (Lot of outdoor wheels seem to be soft enough)

Hope this helps
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Old January 22nd, 2018, 01:25 AM   #16
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Thanks for the Snyder correction, likkwid.
I hadn't realized that their quality had suffered recently.

I don't think Kekindy (the OP) said what kind of floor he usually skates.
The sport court was mentioned in one of my posts.

And yeah, you are write on all counts as far as that surface goes.
But right again, roll with (on) what you got.
At least there is a rink, thankful for that.
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