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Quad Speed Discussions about speed skating in quad roller skates.

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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:12 AM   #1
peter
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Default Technique question

My son Tom asked me to ask about skating faster for longer. To put his skills into perspective he

- is 19 years old and aerobically very fit (rides fixed wheel mountbain bike off road amongst other things)

- is as thin as a rake with no excess weight

- plays roller hockey on quads

- only has one pair of quads

- switches the wheels depending on whether he is skating inside or out -Hyper Rollos 78A 65mm outdoors (tried 82A wheels but too hard for the surface he skates on)

- has the bolts fixing wheels to plate very lose regardless of the type of skating he does

- does a half marathon in just over an hour

- did a double martathon last summer in just under 5 hours

You will see that he can sustain 12mph outdoors no problem, but he'd like to up it to 15mph.

So he asked me to ask you for advice, probably techinique. I don't have any video but I could probably take some. This is Tom completing the 2010 double marathon at Goodwood

http://www.cskate.co.uk/component/op...2_itemId=15507
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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:19 AM   #2
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Hard to know if he has improvment in him without a video. From the looks of that pic he is pushing to the rear too much. You need to push directly to the side for starters.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 10:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
Hard to know if he has improvment in him without a video. From the looks of that pic he is pushing to the rear too much. You need to push directly to the side for starters.
I'll try and get a video

I agree with the pushing to the rear as well. I am wondering if this is a spin off from roller hockey -toe stops sprints all the time
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Old January 31st, 2011, 11:13 AM   #4
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Yeah, the video would be needed. One observation though, his leg muscles seem to somewhat on the small side. Speed skaters do better with large powerful muscles. Back when Eric Heiden was skating they even did a segment on his training to get those huge leg muscles. It also applies to quads.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 12:15 PM   #5
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quads.
Muscles or skates?
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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:04 PM   #6
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Working on increasing muscle mass won't help anywhere near as much as refining tenique. For a 40 - 80 kilometer race large quads and glutes might waste more energy than provide extra speed, efficent skating is the key and the majority of his training should be directed to this.

Those oversize socks and baggy clothes wouldn't be helping his speed any, give them the flick. I would also get mini toe stops (better still NTS) to reduce the weight of the skates as much as possible. Every little bit will help.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:37 PM   #7
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I am currently skating at a similar level to your son Tom. With winter here in Chicago making outdoor skating impossible for 3-4 months, I decided to begin attending a group indoor speed class staring a few months back.
My goal for 2011 is to break 1 hour for a 1/2 marathon. This speed class has proven most helpful. Although the focus of indoor speed is mainly learning to generate speed on the turns by the use of powerful crossover strokes, much of the work we do (and where I was previously clueless) is learning to SKATE COMFORTABLY IN A LOW STANCE. The power of a good stroke relates directly to the width of the push stroke, which correlates directly with how low you can be as you make it. Staying low for one hour of continuous skating will certainly develop your quads.

Another aspect that I think Tom should master if he plans to reach the 15mph speed is the double push. Although we don't normally do crossovers outdoors. the double push can boost our stroke in a similar way to a crossover, effectively allowing a wider push stroke by first doing a mini inward stroke before the main outward stroke begins.

So bottom line is to do what ever makes your power stroke longer/wider, and stay low. Drafting is also essential for sustaining the maximum speeds of longer races.

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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:55 PM   #8
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I gotta echo Dillos thoughts on this. I skated on two speed teams as a teenager with some small meausre of success. The whole idea of speed skating is to generate as much speed in the turns as possible while staying as far down as possible. You need very strong knees to be able to handle the strain. Heavy lower body strength training is the key in my opinion....
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Old February 1st, 2011, 07:13 AM   #9
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I The whole idea of speed skating is to generate as much speed in the turns as possible while staying as far down as possible. ...
He is aiming for a decent time at Goodwood 2011 -a 2 mile motor racing circuit - no tight turns

I agree with the comment about the boots and toe stops. I'd like to get him some lighter skates but as there is no quad speed skating scene in the UK I can't get any first hand guidance. So fire away.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter View Post
He is aiming for a decent time at Goodwood 2011 -a 2 mile motor racing circuit - no tight turns

I agree with the comment about the boots and toe stops. I'd like to get him some lighter skates but as there is no quad speed skating scene in the UK I can't get any first hand guidance. So fire away.
What kind of skates is he on now? A good speed skate will have a steep kingpin in the 0-15 degree range, but these tend to be more prone to wheel bite with the larger 70mm and up wheels.

How big of a foot size is he? I suggest he find some nice lightweight kangaroo leather soccer shoes and then cut/sand off the cleats.
Then mount a lightweight pair of nylon speed plates, like Novas or Laser Sliders. The real challenge is getting lightweight wheels in the 70mm or larger size.

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Old February 1st, 2011, 09:32 AM   #11
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Make them look like these and you can't go wrong.






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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:36 AM   #12
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Default Yep start hunting for light weight stuff.

Look at some Bont boots for starters. If money is an issue look at some soccer boots then and cut off the studs as suggested in an earlier post.
Wheels try for 70mm but find something light. When you are skating such a distance light weight is really important.
If the race track is a good surface I'd be running something around 94a so there is plenty of roll. 94a is a common outdoor race compound for a good surface. If they are over 40mm wide I'd cut them down. For road it means less rolling resistance and you don't need the extra grip on the road that you do indoors.
Plates. Yes the billion dollar question.
Light and Strong.
Speak to DocSk8 about a hotted up Sure Grip Nova with strong axles and Kingpins and better cushions. I'm guessing for less than $150 you would have a very strong and light weight plate that should kick ass on the road. Turn on the road is no where near as important as indoors. If anything you want less turn so you can put the power down more directly without the trucks turning and burning up energy. Technique comes into this big time.
The Nova shares the same trucks and geometry as the Ultimate 3 and 4 plates everyone loves so much. Put a plug in where the toe stop goes its not gonna bother you at all.
Plate positioning you need to do an Aussie forward mount. For road its the only way to go and its just fine indoors as well.
Good luck with it.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 09:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
Look at some Bont boots for starters. If money is an issue look at some soccer boots then and cut off the studs as suggested in an earlier post.
Wheels try for 70mm but find something light. When you are skating such a distance light weight is really important.
If the race track is a good surface I'd be running something around 94a so there is plenty of roll. 94a is a common outdoor race compound for a good surface. If they are over 40mm wide I'd cut them down. For road it means less rolling resistance and you don't need the extra grip on the road that you do indoors.
Plates. Yes the billion dollar question.
Light and Strong.
Speak to DocSk8 about a hotted up Sure Grip Nova with strong axles and Kingpins and better cushions. I'm guessing for less than $150 you would have a very strong and light weight plate that should kick ass on the road. Turn on the road is no where near as important as indoors. If anything you want less turn so you can put the power down more directly without the trucks turning and burning up energy. Technique comes into this big time.
The Nova shares the same trucks and geometry as the Ultimate 3 and 4 plates everyone loves so much. Put a plug in where the toe stop goes its not gonna bother you at all.
Plate positioning you need to do an Aussie forward mount. For road its the only way to go and its just fine indoors as well.
Good luck with it.
+1 on all of this.

Nova would be a good plate, my speed increased dramatically when I swiched to a ultimate. Probably don't even need to worry about the kingpin if you are happy to adjust the action "old school"
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