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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #41
HK47
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Well yes, I actually have but you didn't answer the question. Let me put it even more crudely, if I called all other women the c word, is that a slur?
Again, context. It would be hard to justify using the c-word because there hasn't been a drive to re-appropriate it, however myself and my girlfriend use it to refer to each other and our close friends quite often.

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One did offer to come on here, but I thought that might be a bit excessive just for the purpose of this discussion as she isn't interested in skating. Besides, it really shouldn't be a huge stretch of the imagination.
Not a huge stretch of the imagination. The flipside being anyone involved in LGBT politics (just reading stories etc) will already be well aware of the use of the word queer as a reclaimed word even if they don't personally appeal to them.

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Oh, so you want to tell someone who has pretty much told you that they are in the IT field about a "thing called Google." Now it appears you are just trying to be insulting. About the music, you have no idea what my musical education has been, other than I don't know/care about this Mayfield guy. I am not going to bother to enlighten you on that, because I don't think it would be pertainent to the conversation even if I did.
I'm an AIX admin as well as a CCNA. "Working in IT" doesn't round it down much, but you do seem very resistive to making 2 minute searches for info. It's good that you don't see that a musician who wrote politically charged music during the pivotal years of the Civil Rights Movement, is inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (two times over) and the Grammy Hall of Fame, and who used the n-word to powerful effect has any standing in a conversation about the use of the n-word.

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Well, we have already used a lot of "virtual ink" in this discussion anyway, so to my mind you might as well type out the longer, correct terminology for what you are talking about, instead of a word that is obviously a misnomer.
A common-use misnomer, which is referred to in many places.

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I don't know about you, but I think I am getting to the point where I feel I am about done here. While it's clear we aren't going to come to any sort of agreement, perhaps we have given each other (or someone reading) a little food for thought.
Indeed. Spirited debate is the lifeblood of ideas, and without it progress isn't made. I agree it's time to close this one, though, and conclude that the word Queer should not be allowed on the forums unless used in context to something outside of the forums which is publicly labelled as such - does that sound reasonable?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #42
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the word Queer should not be allowed on the forums unless used in context to something outside of the forums which is publicly labelled as such - does that sound reasonable?
"Queer" is a word that has too many meanings to ban it outright. Like the word "gay", it has meanings that are totally unrelated to the GLBT community. But if we determine it is being used in hate language it would still violate our forum rules.

However... continued debate about this topic is acceptable, interesting, and encouraged, as long as it does not deteriorate into ugly name calling. Our forum rules don't mean forum members have to agree with each other, only that the discussions not deteriorate into angry and insulting tirades.

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Old September 9th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #43
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Again, context. It would be hard to justify using the c-word because there hasn't been a drive to re-appropriate it, however myself and my girlfriend use it to refer to each other and our close friends quite often.
You still didn't answer the question asked, but that's ok, I believe I pretty much know the answer you're skirting around anyway.
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Not a huge stretch of the imagination. The flipside being anyone involved in LGBT politics (just reading stories etc) will already be well aware of the use of the word queer as a reclaimed word even if they don't personally appeal to them.
Sure, and it certainly doesn't appeal to all from what I hear.
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I'm an AIX admin as well as a CCNA. "Working in IT" doesn't round it down much, but you do seem very resistive to making 2 minute searches for info. It's good that you don't see that a musician who wrote politically charged music during the pivotal years of the Civil Rights Movement, is inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (two times over) and the Grammy Hall of Fame, and who used the n-word to powerful effect has any standing in a conversation about the use of the n-word.
I was a Systems Administrator in a Windows based environment. Of course I know how to search Google, honestly I just don't care to look at information on him after you said he uses the n word. I share the viewpoint of Richard Pryor, who was a bit of a trailblazer on the subject of black entertainers saying the n word but he came to see the flip side of the coin.
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A common-use misnomer, which is referred to in many places.
That doesn't make it any more correct, now does it? The fact that it is commonly used wrongly all over the place.
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Indeed. Spirited debate is the lifeblood of ideas, and without it progress isn't made. I agree it's time to close this one, though, and conclude that the word Queer should not be allowed on the forums unless used in context to something outside of the forums which is publicly labelled as such - does that sound reasonable?
No... if it is important to Hot Lips to define herself in that manner for reasons of her own, I would say I can't quite agree to that. Unless she has an issue hearing the word queer from a straight person (if they should ever have occasion to reference her individual sexuality - which is doubtful), but, if that is the case she has an issue with it, then I would agree that it probably doesn't have a place on here, but that is just IMO.

I have decided for myself, I won't be referring to the gay community in general as gay/queer after giving it some thought and opinions of friends. Agreed about spirited debate.

Can't we just quit talking about it, and leave her to express herself as she pleases?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #44
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As a queer I find this discussion interesting.

IMHO it's always about context.

Also dec8sk8r not calling us as a group gay or queer is fine, but what are you going to call us?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #45
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As a queer I find this discussion interesting.

IMHO it's always about context.

Also dec8sk8r not calling us as a group gay or queer is fine, but what are you going to call us?
In general, I plan to say just gay without saying gay/queer, unless the group or individual actually prefers the term queer and labels them or themselves accordingly, then I think it should be fitting to follow suit. Otherwise, until the word queer is more widely accepted, I will probably take my cues of the proper terminology from the general public media to err on the side of caution if I do err. Fair enough?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #46
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If I were attending an event- I would refer to it by the name the hosts had given it- be it Summerfest, Heritage Days, Gay Pride Festival Etc.
My friends and acquaintances are addressed by their NAME. I don't feel the need to attach a sexual preference, race, political party or ideation to them.
I am taking nothing away from the struggles and road blocks they may have met because of their ethnicity, sexual preference, or other non "mainstream" choices they have made.
They are each savored for their individuality, but I rarely feel the need to categorize them by "group".
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Old September 9th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #47
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If I were attending an event- I would refer to it by the name the hosts had given it- be it Summerfest, Heritage Days, Gay Pride Festival Etc.
My friends and acquaintances are addressed by their NAME. I don't feel the need to attach a sexual preference, race, political party or ideation to them.
As are mine.
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I am taking nothing away from the struggles and road blocks they may have met because of their ethnicity, sexual preference, or other non "mainstream" choices they have made.
They are each savored for their individuality, but I rarely feel the need to categorize them by "group".
Now let me ask you a tough question (because I know your mind can handle it ), if that rare occasion were to arise where you actually needed to refer to one of your friends or acquaintances sexuality, lets say - one who had only ever referred to themselves previously as queer, would you use their own description or you use another term?

P.S. I am not trying to put you on the spot or ask you to choose a side here, Smartin. I was just curious if you knew how you would respond if that event were to occur, and if so, you wanted to share an answer to that. Do you see how I am when you pop in?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 07:56 PM   #48
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As are mine.

Now let me ask you a tough question (because I know your mind can handle it ), if that rare occasion were to arise where you actually needed to refer to one of your friends or acquaintances sexuality, lets say - one who had only ever referred to themselves previously as queer, would you use their own description or you use another term?
If I was put in the position of having to define someone by their sexual orientation I would probably use the terms gay, lesbian or straight- because that is the "acceptable" vernacular in this area. If I knew an individual wished to be categorized by a different term, I would probably defer to that- unless I personally found the label degrading or offensive.
I rarely, if ever feel the need to use descriptive acronyms for people either. Those are better left for the "personals" ads.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #49
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Good answer, I won't put you on the spot about any words in particular.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #50
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I would not use the term "queer" unless an individual requested that I do. Even then it would not roll off my tongue easily, because it is not the locally accepted terminology.
I would also never refer to a particular person I've met as a "bull dyke" as she likes to describe herself, because she enjoys the shock value reaction. By the same token, I would not call someones husband an A-hole because SHE does

I realize that the slang and terminology may change from state to state, country to country, or from one elite university to another. I live HERE, so I don't put much thought into what will offend someone on the other side of the country, or world. I of course try to be accommodating- but you can't please everyone.

There are always going to be those folks who LOOK for a reason to be insulted or offended- no matter how much effort is put into being socially "correct".
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Old September 9th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #51
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Are we ever really forced into these situations or do we capitulate because it's easy. If I want to refer to a friend as my friend I will go to the guillotine before I allow others to dictate that I say gay friend or whatever. I don't label other than friend or not friend.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 10:05 PM   #52
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There are always going to be those folks who LOOK for a reason to be insulted or offended- no matter how much effort is put into being socially "correct".
Yep. And they use that as a pretense to jump all over you.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #53
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retraction
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Old September 9th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #54
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Ditto
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Old September 9th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #55
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*Smootch*
my bad, I retracted. see above/
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Old September 9th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #56
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Old September 10th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #57
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As a queer I find this discussion interesting.

IMHO it's always about context.

Also dec8sk8r not calling us as a group gay or queer is fine, but what are you going to call us?
I find that "People" works pretty well.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #58
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There are always going to be those folks who LOOK for a reason to be insulted or offended- no matter how much effort is put into being socially "correct".
This is true. Sometimes the effort to be 'socially correct' being undertaken by people who don't understand the issue is what causes offense (see: Black people from outside the US being referred to as 'African-Americans' by interviewers, etc).

The other thing to consider is that if someone lives with having unpleasant terminology pinned on them regularly, or have specific unpleasant memories related to who they are, it may cause them to give disproportionate thought into meanings and implications, which may make them sensitive to such things.

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I find that "People" works pretty well.
Thats good, until you want to talk about stuff like gay marriage, or bullying, or other stuff where 'people' might need to be split up into more than one group.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #59
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Just some food for thought..

a friend of mine that is in Human Sexuality studies said that the "Q" in LGBT'Q', refers to any type of sexuality that is not defined by hetero-sexual, procreational sex.

So by that definition, my hubby and I are as queer as they come!
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