S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 28th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #21
stealthsports
#stealthsports
 
stealthsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
Actually I'm pretty much sure that in going for the 3pf 6061 budget wise, I'm not sure about frame length, go for the 13.2? Or 12.6?
Since it's your first serious pair of speed skates, the 6061 Alu Bont frame will be perfect. You'll probably get them cheap in a package deal too.

It's hard to say what length is best for you. Ideally, you want to learn to use speed skates on a smaller frame with smaller wheels. And gradually move up.

A 4x100mm frame isn't bad. Keep in mind, the 13.2" 4x110mm frame really gives you nothing else to step up to. Might be worth just learning to skate on a 4x100mm frame first. And step up to a 110mm frame when you're ready.
__________________
STEALTH SPORTS - Australia's Favourite Speed Skates
fb.com/stealthsportswear
stealth-sports.com
stealthsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2014, 11:44 PM   #22
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Default

A stupid question:
Is it possible doing a marathon on 4x100 setup in an hour?
I'm training regularly, 3 times a week gym and 3 times a week skating.
Currently my peak is 40kmh on my 90mm setup with m100 boot.
So is that possible or is it times that only professional speed skaters do?
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 12:46 AM   #23
cass38a
Senior Member
 
cass38a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,653
Default

The fastest ever marathon was skated on 90mm wheels I believe so there is no reason why not. A one hour marathon is something only the elite skaters can dream about, on a good day, with a tail wind.........

Much better to start on 100 and move up when you have got your form right.
cass38a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 02:49 AM   #24
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,008
Default

Two big benefits from the 7050 3PF frame. Weight and rebound flex. I like the way this frame feels alive, and when they say it has the "right" flex, I believe it. I came off of a 3 point S-Frame 7, and that thing is super stiff. Good for outdoor, but the 3PF feels much more alive under foot. There is a spring at the end of the stroke that I noticed right away. It also doesn't skip like the 3 point does at the end of the push either, though I have been in situations where the frame skips during the push, probably my bad technique.

I think you made the right choice with the 6061 as a first frame. Go with the shorter 4x100 frame to start, then, when you are ready to upgrade or step up to a 4x110, get a better frame.
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 05:18 AM   #25
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,088
Default

Though I've not skated them... I've heard that the Bont Mayhem wheel is a VERY good general purpose wheel. A good balanced blend of comfort, performance and wear resistance that is good on most surfaces.

For frame... if you go with a 12.6 you are locked into 100mm or smaller wheels unless you buy another frame. If you go with the 13.2 you can put on any size wheels up to 110mm, so you can start on 90s or 100s and move to 110 if/when you can handle the size & weight. You might even choose 105mm wheels which (depending on brand & model) weigh the same as 100s but roll almost as well as 110s
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 12:46 PM   #26
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDonnybrook View Post
Two big benefits from the 7050 3PF frame. Weight and rebound flex. I like the way this frame feels alive, and when they say it has the "right" flex, I believe it. I came off of a 3 point S-Frame 7, and that thing is super stiff. Good for outdoor, but the 3PF feels much more alive under foot. There is a spring at the end of the stroke that I noticed right away. It also doesn't skip like the 3 point does at the end of the push either, though I have been in situations where the frame skips during the push, probably my bad technique.

I think you made the right choice with the 6061 as a first frame. Go with the shorter 4x100 frame to start, then, when you are ready to upgrade or step up to a 4x110, get a better frame.
That's what I thought, train for a year on these and than move to vaypor 3pt with 3pf 7050 frame and 110mm wheels.
Actually when thinking about it now, I kinda wish I would have gotten a jet instead of a z for a starting boot, the z is a little pricy for a first time budget.
Anyway, this has been really helpful, I'll update when I get them, and share my first timer experiences in a new thread.
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 03:41 PM   #27
stealthsports
#stealthsports
 
stealthsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
That's what I thought, train for a year on these and than move to vaypor 3pt with 3pf 7050 frame and 110mm wheels.
Actually when thinking about it now, I kinda wish I would have gotten a jet instead of a z for a starting boot, the z is a little pricy for a first time budget.
Anyway, this has been really helpful, I'll update when I get them, and share my first timer experiences in a new thread.
Stick to 2 point boot..... Keep your options open....
__________________
STEALTH SPORTS - Australia's Favourite Speed Skates
fb.com/stealthsportswear
stealth-sports.com
stealthsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #28
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthsports View Post
Stick to 2 point boot..... Keep your options open....
Bont is only selling 2pt and their original 3 point boots now. They no longer have the 3pt 195mm mounting, but sell something they call the mid-point to use the middle mount on the 3PF frame. I agree, though, unless you specifically want the 3pt set up with the S-Frame or S-Frame 7, stick with the 2 point boot. I don't think I would go back to a standard 3 point set up again, though it was a good cost sensitive option for a first speed set up.

Really, though, you can't go wrong with the Z, it is a solid boot.
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2014, 06:23 AM   #29
evilzzz
Senior Member
 
evilzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
That's what I thought, train for a year on these and than move to vaypor 3pt with 3pf 7050 frame and 110mm wheels.
Actually when thinking about it now, I kinda wish I would have gotten a jet instead of a z for a starting boot, the z is a little pricy for a first time budget.
Anyway, this has been really helpful, I'll update when I get them, and share my first timer experiences in a new thread.
I hated my Zs, but thats just me. I found them far too stiff, and they are extremely low cut if you are not used to it.

Like Itay I would have said go with the semi-race as that would have given you the best chance to get a feel for a speed boot, and it is more comfortable. Cheetah is also a very good and underrated option imo- it is more firbreglass and far less stiff that Zs. Both are half the price of the Z. I have seen lots of people who can't cope with going from a soft boot to a hard carbon boot with minimal padding and brutalise their feet. I was one of them.

Even on my new custom Vaypors I have had them specced to have softer padding and slightly higher cuff- and I am very pleased with them!
evilzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #30
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Default varducci and fila

i have tried a varducci with a relatively high cuff and a file matrix at the store, they werent so bad, the fila killed my toes with the upper wall, but the varducci was both comfortable and high cuff except it was a bit big, so i hope my experience would be less painful than yours. i guess ill have to wait and see because the money is already spent.
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2014, 05:50 PM   #31
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Default semi race

as for the semi race, no way, its too damn ugly for my taste, im not going to put that on my feet, i could have considered a jet though, i dont know why i was so hard headed on the Z. i could have got the jet with a frame on the same price. whats done is done.
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2014, 11:15 PM   #32
evilzzz
Senior Member
 
evilzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
as for the semi race, no way, its too damn ugly for my taste, im not going to put that on my feet, i could have considered a jet though, i dont know why i was so hard headed on the Z. i could have got the jet with a frame on the same price. whats done is done.
I like the look of the Z too, but good looks have lead to many an unhappy and unhealthy relationship.

Good luck if that's what you use to make your decisions.. you're gonna need it.
evilzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #33
matguy
Senior Member
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilzzz View Post
I like the look of the Z too, but good looks have lead to many an unhappy and unhealthy relationship.

Good luck if that's what you use to make your decisions.. you're gonna need it.
I was thinking similar, but was going to be a little... different about it.

Basically, neat looking skates don't make you fast, if that's your goal.
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2014, 04:04 PM   #34
stealthsports
#stealthsports
 
stealthsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
as for the semi race, no way, its too damn ugly for my taste, im not going to put that on my feet, i could have considered a jet though, i dont know why i was so hard headed on the Z. i could have got the jet with a frame on the same price. whats done is done.
Z's are fine. Jets are fine.

Ultimately man, your legs are doing the work. As long as the boot is well made and well fitted to your foot, the rest is up to you.

I'd personally recommend a 4x100 frame in a mid-range length.
__________________
STEALTH SPORTS - Australia's Favourite Speed Skates
fb.com/stealthsportswear
stealth-sports.com
stealthsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2014, 06:57 PM   #35
Code Monkey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,647
Default

Hey zerkotin, you'll be fine with the Bont Z. Bont makes excellent equipment. Ankle height is a strange thing, what seems like common sense doesn't necessarily ring true.

Years ago I talked with Jennifer Simmons about skate fit because I was worried about their skates being low cut. She said it isn't the height of the cuff but how the boot fits below the ankle. At the time I kind of believed or understood but it didn't really hit my brain until I got my edgeTeks which are low cut. The boot fits my foot so well, upper ankle support isn't needed for the skating I do which is speedskating style, even though I am only usually doing 14mph or so. So Jennifer Simmons as well as Dave really do know their stuff.

Before heat molding your Z's, go skate in them, do about 50 miles in them first unless they are way off in fit. Get a feel for how they work. Start easy and build up. Stop and take breaks if needed. Focus on feeling the frame and it's balance point on your foot and how to control it. Then heat mold if need be. Bont boots are plenty stiff and Alex (all the Bonts) know their stuff big time so I am sure a low cut boot has plenty of foot support.

When not skating, stand on one leg and lift yourself up on your toes and back down, eventually progressing to doing this in low speedskating position except maybe not the toe raises. Just do a one legged squat in low speedskating position and you will be developing balance, leg strength and ankle strength and core strength.

I have talked with many people who own Bont Z's and they skate a lot and have been on their Z's for many years and love them. You will have a blast. Smaller wheels are good to begin with but it sort of depends on you. Try the 100s, you will find they roll better. When your legs hurt pull over and sit down and rub them out, then resume skating. It won't belong and you won't have to break till you start rolling out some big miles. 110s ? Give yourself some time on these and get your form down and it takes awhile. Sort of works like this... form is bad at first and you think your lower back is going to just snap after skating a mile. Keep at it till you get out five without standing. Keep your action smooth. Do the skaters fall. Breathe steady and deep. Relax. Eventually you will be going faster and farther, getting in and out of form, not falling in time with your push, mistakes galore. But... then one day, for no reason you can think of you will skate like your from the Netherlands. Just flying. And then go back to repeating the process.

I have been skating now 12 years and every day I practice exactly what I am telling you and still have so much room for improvement it just ain't funny! I think some days I look like I just never have skated in my life.

Chances are, just like my Bonts, they fit nearly perfectly out of the box. Get some ezeefits 2mm thickness. Just skate man. Roll. Roll on one leg. Push hard, push easy, do it all. Believe me, in about 6 months, skating maybe 3 times a week for an hour you will be cranking and sometimes laughing while skating you're having so much fun.

In a few years, not because you need to because Bont skates are really durable and tough, but you will want to try something different. You may want to stick with Bont or go with some other skate boot maker. But you will always remember your starting speedskating boot and the first time you knock out 50 miles. You may not think you will ever do that, I never did, but one day you will just feel it and do it... and then you have joined the group of us who basically are addicted.

HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOUR AWESOME NEW BONT Z'S!!!!
Code Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2014, 11:07 AM   #36
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Thumbs up

My new Zs just arrived missing an axle and a spacer, lol.
im trying to resolve the issue as i write this, but bont's representatives are making it hard on me, why cant they just send an axle and a spacer?
currently i took 1 axle from my Fila frames along with the wheels bearings and spacers.
the axle is just a bit short, but i think its ok as long as it doesnt tighten or loosen when i ride.

anyway, i finally understand what hotspots means, and i understand the ankle issues.
but its not really an ankle issues, its more about standing right and finding the balance spot. ill go for a ride this evening without heat molding and see how it goes, i bought some ezeefits too.

on my first attempt to buckle i destroyed a tooth on the buckle, i stretched and it jumped one back.

one question though, i measured my feet and bought accordingly, my toes doesnt touch the end, they are almost therem i have about half a centimeter space.
is that bad? width wise its good, and the boot is verryyyyy stiff, its a new way of wearing it, but it doesnt feel big.


so the setup is Bont Z, 3pf 6061 @ 12.6" (fits 100mm - 105mm wheels), gyro marathon wheels 100mm, ilq9 pro bearings.

Last edited by zerkotin; August 4th, 2014 at 11:14 AM. Reason: added some stuff
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2014, 04:33 PM   #37
bnumerick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerkotin View Post
one question though, i measured my feet and bought accordingly, my toes doesnt touch the end, they are almost therem i have about half a centimeter space.
is that bad? width wise its good, and the boot is verryyyyy stiff, its a new way of wearing it, but it doesnt feel big.
It's been awhile since i've used a stock boot but 5mm should be fine. I would guess that in a smaller size your toes would be hitting the end which you don't really want either.
bnumerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2014, 06:29 PM   #38
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,008
Default

I agree with Bnumerick that 5mm of space at the front isn't necessarily a problem. I think I have a little bit of clearance in my boots, too. As for whether it matters, if you find your foot sliding forward, and your heel bouncing in the back of the boot, the boot may be too long, but you can fix that with thick EzeeFits and lacing. I use ladder lacing on the top eyelets of my skates to make sure they are tight enough. The issue with the buckle has to do with the engineering on the buckle. Seems like all of the manufacturers are going with these lower profile buckles. I don't ratchet mine, I just push the strap through the buckle and use the ratchet to assist in getting that last click so that it is snug. The tooth on the buckle is plastic, and not very strong against big force, like when you are trying to tighten the lace cover. Don't depend on the cover to tighten the boot.
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2014, 07:18 PM   #39
matguy
Senior Member
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 653
Default

Exactly. Use the laces are for tightening your boot. While it wold seem like you should, and a lot of people do use that strap for extra stiffening around the ankle, it will quickly result in stripping out the ladder strap.

If you do use it that way, make sure you have extra ladders and buckles on hand. That one is just like what Sidi uses on their bike shoes, so you can generally get replacements from bike shops in your area, if you need 'em quickly. Otherwise they're between $4 and $8 a strap, shipped from multiple skate supply places (seems to be cheaper than through bike suppliers.) Buckle assemblies can be around $12 to $20 (which generally comes with a ladder strap.) The buckle assembly (if ordered from Bont) should also come with an extra screw. SAVE THIS SCREW. At some point someone will break a buckle, go to change theirs and loose their screw. You will be the savior of the day if you can offer them this screw (assuming it fits their boot.) Or, it might just be you that needs it.

I did notice that the ladder on my old Bont boots (165mm Zero) was particularly weak. (Yes, I was using it to firm up the boot; bad matguy, bad!) The notches would strip quickly and one had the T at the top snap and it came through the cover itself. I grabbed an extra I had on hand (bought at REI for ridiculously too much) and stopped using them for tension.
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2014, 01:40 PM   #40
zerkotin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 115
Default great tip

i actually didnt give that much thought, im used to using the ratchet to tighten my Fila's, which are very comfy after they broke in.

ill try that next time, i heat molded the boots last night, but i didnt feel any big difference in comfort, there is still pressure in the same places (mostly on the sides where the ratchet sits), even if im not tightening it.

i tried the thing with the back of a screw driver, it didnt seem to make any difference, maybe i didnt heat it enough, my oven has analog switch so i dont know if im at 75 or 90, i went with 75 to be sure and did it like 3 times.

size wise, there is a big space in front, i checked more thoroughly and its about the width of a finger which is more than 5mm, its supposed to be 41 which is 27cm, my fila are 40.5 and my toes reach the end with slight irritation, so im still not sure about the size, but we will see.

thanks for all the tips
next week ill take a private lesson to fix my technique, ill post on it in a different thread.
zerkotin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, bont, fila, luigino, speed

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.