S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum > Quad Speed
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Quad Speed Discussions about speed skating in quad roller skates.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 22nd, 2008, 05:36 PM   #1
JimmyB
Pinnacle Footwear Expert
 
JimmyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 1,155
Default quad speed boots, likes and dislikes

Ok guys(and ladies), i have been thinking for a few months about building a quad speed boot. What are some features that you like/dislike on current models? colors? etc??

it will be REAL leather in and out, a lace closure..

any other things that you want to see?

im doing this when i get time, so its not like they will be reliesed next month or anything!! LOL
__________________
Jimmy Blair II
www.pinnacleracing.com www.facebook.com/PinnacleFootwear
Pinnacle Elite/LSR/TLTF/Twincam
JimmyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 05:50 PM   #2
Broken Joe
Senior Member
 
Broken Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 175
Default

Hey Jimmie,
How about a heat moldable heel cup & forefoot counter. Ankle height would probably be abot what your inline boots should be. Seems the "quad scene" is against the newer style Bont's with the low ankle height... like a Riedell 195 or cycling shoe.
Sole platform would probably have either a flat profile, or up to say 10mm for folks who like a little heel on their skate boots.
There's so many little things that could be added/ made into a quad boot that folks have either forgotten about or just take for granted. Thanx for trying to get something "right" for us quad folks.
PM me as I've got too many ideas to put down here and we need to let others have a say in what they, we all want/ need.
Broken Joe
Murfreesboro Sprinters
Broken Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 05:52 PM   #3
Broken Joe
Senior Member
 
Broken Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 175
Default

Jimmy,
Excuse the misspellinig of your name... I got "happy fingers" at the thought of someone actually asking what quad skaters wanted!!
Thanx again.
Broken Joe
Broken Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 06:56 PM   #4
raggedjim
I hate my avatar...
 
raggedjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 725
Default

Well, I prefer the low cut ankle of the Riedell 195 (811 also). I always hear people complain of break-in time. Maybe a softer leather from the start would reduce the break-in.

Rg
raggedjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 07:18 PM   #5
Live2sk888
Skate Whisperer
 
Live2sk888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,571
Default

There are 2 fairly large markets for quad speed boots right now in my opinion - the jamskating market, and the derby market. Then you have a smaller market of quad speed skaters which seems to be growing a little right now.

The same boot won't please them all, but I think one basic design could be modified a little to meet the different needs.

For the speed skaters, the boot needs to hold the foot tightly in place (you don’t want your foot moving around in the boot at all), have as little flex in the sole as possible, have fairly strong counters and be able to be laced in a way that it is snug enough around the ankle. Many speed skaters like the low cut boots (like the 195) but there are others who want a higher boot more like a 595/695. Laces should go all the way down to the toe if possible so that the skater has as much control as possible over how loose/tight the boot is on each part of the foot.
It would be awesome to have both options, but if it was just one design for the first boot I would suggest the higher cut ankle, just because I think there is a much bigger market for them. I would not suggest a completely flat sole – about a half inch total height in the back of the boot would probably please the majority of people. (I like a little more heel, and some people like none, but I think that will meet the majority of people's preference.)

For the derby skaters, most of the same basic attributes as the speed skaters, but durability becomes a big issue. Some extra layers of leather or scuff guards would be perfect, especially in the toe area, but also in other scuff-prone areas. I think the same boot design as speed with some added reinforcements would suit derby well. One difference here is that the very low cut (195 style) boots do not work well for most derby skaters, because when you are constantly falling and getting back up, those boots are more likely to come off of your foot.

Jam skaters are more unique here – if you look at all of the footwork and moves that they do where their weight is completely on the sides of the boots/on their ankles/etc – their foot NEEDS to be able to move in the boot. The more broken in a boot gets, the better it gets for jamskating. A hard or molded structure like an inline boot would not allow the movement that a jamskater needs. Soft leather is important and counters do not need to be so restrictive. Durability is important here too although they aren’t as destructive as derby skaters. The toes and the front of the soles of jamskating boots tend to wear out first.

A few things that would be important regardless of the type of boot -

* High quality, soft leather that does not require a terrible process to break in. Soft and sturdy is the real goal, not just using a thinner piece of stiff leather so it feels softer.

* Well dyed leather so that the colors don't come all the way off the first time you scuff them.

* The overall structure of the boot needs to be high quality to avoid problems with the boot coming unstitched, coming off the sole, etc. I’m assuming this part won’t be too hard for you since you’ve made so many inline boots, but at the same time, the stress that derby and jam skaters but on their boots can get pretty crazy.
__________________
REBECCA aka Speedyrella
www.getskates.com - www.skatestylez.com - www.getregrooved.com
*Email me if you need a quick reply, I'm not on here every day*
Live2sk888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 07:53 PM   #6
xlracer
Senior Member
 
xlracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,135
Default

Hey Jimmy will you be coming to the Murfreesboro NTF? I am sure that Broken Joe and I can give you more than enough on what we would like to see with a quality quad boot. I think the biggest problem for most of us is we all have our own opinion on what works best. Rebecca is spot on when she says there are three different types of us quad skaters and I agree we all want something different. I would like to see something with a little more ankle support. A higher cuff like the original Oberhamers from the early 70's.
Closed toe with laces all the way to the toe. If you can import Kangaroo then do it.
If you wont be in Murfreesboro next weekend, you just made up my mind about the tax relief meet. We will be there.
I am working on a new quad plate and need a good boot for it.
xlracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2008, 08:17 PM   #7
yedaki_de
Outdoor Quad Skater
 
yedaki_de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posts: 370
Default

Nothing more to say after Rebecca, you hit the most important points.

I just would like to have 2 different width for the same length.

eg. my foot is narrow, a riedell 395 fit in the length with size 10, but I have to use a special insole because the shoe is to wide for me. In the ball area and also at the heel.

Now it works, but if I had the possibility I would chose the narrow one.

Seems like drifting towards a quad custom.... ?
yedaki_de is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:40 AM   #8
JimmyB
Pinnacle Footwear Expert
 
JimmyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 1,155
Default

yep, rebeca backed up what i have been thinking! i figured that the jamskaters would need support also, because they ARE ont eh sides of the boot, and the boot need to support that. i might be wrong though. I was thinking about 1/4-3/8 in heel lift, 1/2in is a lil high (imo) but i might be wrong again!
i am going to build the sole so it is shaped like the foot, curved heel, arch support, etc, i think it might preform better than a flat bottomed sole. Thants another thing, the sole material, im debating on carbon, fiberglass, or jsut thick durable leather like most of the other quad boots..

i like what im reading, any other comments or sugguestions?
__________________
Jimmy Blair II
www.pinnacleracing.com www.facebook.com/PinnacleFootwear
Pinnacle Elite/LSR/TLTF/Twincam
JimmyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2008, 02:10 PM   #9
quadbob
Senior Member
 
quadbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: atlanta ga,
Posts: 1,047
Default boots

hey jimmy it was i pretty good practice last night. are you ok, that fall was a pretty good one. as far as boots you already know my oppinions basicly. the 395's were realy good all around speed, jam boots. and for the record you folks that like the low cut boots like the 195 thats great. but they were made for outdoor speed skating on the track in colorado springs and at the world level, also was a very good road racing boot. but if you have to do any type of start especialy with toe stops the low heel becomes an issue. basicly what i mean is it was a outdoor long distance boot and not a indoor boot! great boot though.
quadbob.
quadbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 02:31 PM   #10
markthetrucker
Senior Member
 
markthetrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Secret Location If I told ya...I'd have to kill ya
Posts: 1,183
Default WOW some good things....but I have a couple more.

Ok Wish list for me would be stop trying to make boots with weird sizing! seems for years Ridell has had the market and I need bigger than a 13. So make a 13 a 13 and not an 11! and offer a 14 and 15...We big-foots don't mind paying a little extra we understand the need to kill another cow! lol

And this is just me talking but I love the ankle strap such as on an RS-1000, good strong strap that has NEVER failed!
markthetrucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 01:30 AM   #11
oldnslow
Listen to DaMan
 
oldnslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 1,076
Default

I had a pair of the first Jordan basketball shoes. They had a neoprene like booty that went around the top of the heel and about halfway down the foot. They felt awesome. I bet the jammers would like an option like that. I would like to try it in my speed boot. If it's designed correctly, it could help keep my foot from rolling when I distribute the several tons of force to the floor during my cross-over. And also keep the heel tight.

I like the height of the 695, and I also like the strap. I wish it had another right behind the ball of the foot. Leather, no plastic buckles!

Some air vents or mesh would be nice also to help keep things dry.

A toungue that won't freagin move to the left.

How about a carbon sole, with several mounting nuts cast in (ie. cycling shoes). Or you could design a proprietary plate (5 deg. action and 7mm axles)
__________________
"Haste makes waste...and talk is CHEAP
Shut Up and SKATE!"
oldnslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #12
JimmyB
Pinnacle Footwear Expert
 
JimmyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnslow View Post
I had a pair of the first Jordan basketball shoes. They had a neoprene like booty that went around the top of the heel and about halfway down the foot. They felt awesome. I bet the jammers would like an option like that. I would like to try it in my speed boot. If it's designed correctly, it could help keep my foot from rolling when I distribute the several tons of force to the floor during my cross-over. And also keep the heel tight.

I like the height of the 695, and I also like the strap. I wish it had another right behind the ball of the foot. Leather, no plastic buckles!

Some air vents or mesh would be nice also to help keep things dry.

A toungue that won't freagin move to the left.

How about a carbon sole, with several mounting nuts cast in (ie. cycling shoes). Or you could design a proprietary plate (5 deg. action and 7mm axles)
i think the problem with nuts built in the sole( i was thinking the same idea at first), are that there are SO many diffrent plates and all of them have diffrent mounting distances, unlike inlines. alos, if there IS a carbon sole(have thought it through) what happens when you have to remount 2, 3 mabye more plates on the boot? i have seen old boots that have been remounted upwards of 7, 8, 10 times, and its still in one piece. All those holes in the carbon sole would break it down WAAY to fast.

an extra strap behind the ball of the foot.. that just might work!
__________________
Jimmy Blair II
www.pinnacleracing.com www.facebook.com/PinnacleFootwear
Pinnacle Elite/LSR/TLTF/Twincam
JimmyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 02:31 AM   #13
oldnslow
Listen to DaMan
 
oldnslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 1,076
Default

Cast a sliding nut in the sole at the ball and heel, that will move front to back. Set the L to R distance for the top of the line plate (Reactor, Pro-Line, Roll-Line). Anybody with a nylon plate can just drill the plate.

Do you remember the first mounting system that Brad used? It was a Alu block machined so that a nut fit in the slot and could slide side to side.

Doc, are you there? Is there any differance in distance, side to side, on the mounting holes of these different plates?(Reactor, Pro-Line, Roll-Line)
__________________
"Haste makes waste...and talk is CHEAP
Shut Up and SKATE!"
oldnslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 02:55 AM   #14
Live2sk888
Skate Whisperer
 
Live2sk888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,571
Default

Unfortunately pretty much every plate has it's own unique location of the mounting holes. While it would be great to have some sort of built-in mounting system, it would be impossible to make it work with a large range of plates.
__________________
REBECCA aka Speedyrella
www.getskates.com - www.skatestylez.com - www.getregrooved.com
*Email me if you need a quick reply, I'm not on here every day*
Live2sk888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #15
giarc25
Senior Member
 
giarc25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 309
Default

I will join the Rebecca band wagon as well

I am not experienced with many different boots, and the last pair I had to break in was in 1991, so I dont remember it in detail. I would say the best attibute I would like to see in a new boot is the minimal break in time. Soft leather is an important factor for me. I have broken in many pairs of work boots before, and when they start hurting I take them off. We dont want skaters putting their skates up do we?

I would just like to see something oberhamerish
__________________
Craig
Oberhamer 351, Labeda Proline Plate, Swiss Labyrinth Bearings and Blue Cannibals
giarc25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 05:26 AM   #16
Daddy-O
Señor Member
 
Daddy-O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyB View Post
i think the problem with nuts built in the sole( i was thinking the same idea at first), are that there are SO many diffrent plates and all of them have diffrent mounting distances, unlike inlines. alos, if there IS a carbon sole(have thought it through) what happens when you have to remount 2, 3 mabye more plates on the boot? i have seen old boots that have been remounted upwards of 7, 8, 10 times, and its still in one piece. All those holes in the carbon sole would break it down WAAY to fast.

an extra strap behind the ball of the foot.. that just might work!

You could copy the design of some cycling shoes and use a standard mounting plate bolt pattern that accepts a different sized adapter depending on which plate is being used. The adapters all bolt on to the boot using the same pattern, but each provides a different pattern for the plate being mounted. Does that make sense?

Here's an example:
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?p...ajor=5&minor=6

It's a small pic, but it shows 3 different adapters that can be used on same shoe.
Daddy-O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #17
JimmyB
Pinnacle Footwear Expert
 
JimmyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Georgia USA
Posts: 1,155
Default

i build cycling shoes, so i am aware of the adapters,.. i think that would just be to much work/cost for what i could sell a pairt of quad skates for. i sstill want to be competitive with the high-end quad boots.

yes, i will ONLY use soft leather, no cheap stuff or hard, tough leather. Most of the leahters i use are VERY soft and supple om the feet, so thats what im planning on using.
__________________
Jimmy Blair II
www.pinnacleracing.com www.facebook.com/PinnacleFootwear
Pinnacle Elite/LSR/TLTF/Twincam
JimmyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #18
gospeedracer
Senior Member
 
gospeedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 195
Default

Jimmy, Robin here from Austin. Have you torn down any of the older Quad boots and see what the insides look like? I think the OB style would sell like crazy but with Jammers it would have to be beefed up unlike the originals. If the Jammers used them they would def need side support like crazy! Derby is more like speed IMO, most use a rubber toe box cover on the front though so they won't tear the leather up when they drag the skate. I like the idea of a leather sole (old school) and it would probably keep the cost down opposed to Carbon soles. They guy who is copying the OB's right now is doing a great job I here. They pics look JUST like the originals.

You gonna let this "Old Man" stay up in the pack this time in Round Rock? Or are you going to raze the younger guys for wheel sucking off me like last year? j/k LOL
__________________
Robin
gospeedracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #19
Knight_Rider13
Member
 
Knight_Rider13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 85
Default

I like the Riedell 195's.
__________________
Knight_Rider13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2008, 07:48 PM   #20
xlracer
Senior Member
 
xlracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,135
Default

Jimmy I think you should go with a leather sole. I have several boots that have been mounted several times with no problems. The only place I would like to see the use of the carbon fiber is in the heel cup and the arch support.
xlracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.