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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old February 8th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #21
skate mech
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I'm currently training for my trip to worlds for mens roller derby. My trainer has me doing front squats to get my form proper. I cannot lift as much weight as with a back squat, but I am forced to be very aware of my body's positioning, and what muscles are doing the work.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 08:53 AM   #22
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I never understood idea of excessive warm up/pre-exhaustion, etc.
Really? What is the weak link in a squat? Is it not the lower back? It is not your quads, or supporting hamstrings, right?

You pre-exhuast the legs before squats so you can lift as much as your weak link, the lower back, can take, but because of the pre-exhaust in the legs, the weight will feel relatively heavier. This will allow both the legs and back to reach failure more near each other, not the back long before the legs.

I started doing a blood pressure workout a few weeks back. It was 150 over almost 100. I started doing a high rep workout. 25-50 reps. Now my blood pressure is back down in the 130/80 range. I do high reps of basic movements. I just split into upper and lower body. My lower body workout is 30-50 leg extension and leg curls followed by a half squat with the same weight as the leg extension. The first almost killed me. I was queasy and dizzy, and only managed 20 reps. Next time I did 30 reps. Time after I raised BOTH weights and again did 30 in the squat. On both the 2nd and 3rd workouts, I could have gone for more reps, but as it was, I was slightly light headed after them anyway. I have only re-started lifting about 5 weeks ago. I don't think I will get too aggressive with it until I have some more moderately aggressive sessions under my belt.

I just started another neat trick. Split rep ranges. Doing a high rep set, and then a low or medium rep set. The blog I read says to do the heavy first, then the high rep. I do it backwards. I do the high rep first (20+), then a medium (8-10). My strength is increasing steadily, so, so far, so good.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 02:16 PM   #23
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Why is it important for your back and legs to reach failure near the same time?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #24
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Really? What is the weak link in a squat? Is it not the lower back? It is not your quads, or supporting hamstrings, right?
Ain't my low back

I'd say in the type of squatting and set/rep schemes mentioned here, the mind is the weak link....
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Old February 8th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #25
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Why is it important for your back and legs to reach failure near the same time?
The point is, if the back fails first, how do you stimulate the leg muscles enough?
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Old February 9th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #26
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Default Check Hams vs Quads / Side Ligament Work

Hi Donney,

No comments on squats since I have replaced them mostly. I do some lunges still yet only the star lunge. Since you have a gym, every so often check out your strength ability with your hams vs your quads on a weighted bench. You should keep them equal.

Long ago I read that below 90 was bad, and in some of my newer exercise sheets it shows only going down to parallel. If you need the other side you come UP to 90 and then go back down.

Also make sure you do something for side ligaments to protect the ACL, MCL, Meniscus, and other knee stuff.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old February 9th, 2014, 03:36 AM   #27
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The point is, if the back fails first, how do you stimulate the leg muscles enough?
I dunno, squats aren't supposed to be just a leg exercise. If you want to isolate your legs, do leg press.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 05:55 AM   #28
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Default Stimulate enough for what?

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The point is, if the back fails first, how do you stimulate the leg muscles enough?
Why I love compound movements is they promote functional strength, the kind of strength people who do heavy physical labor get just by doing there job.

I am more impressed by a guy who has the natural "gorilla grip"and is just 'solid'. Might not be perfectly proportioned etc, but functional the guy is purpose built to do work.

I try not to get to much into small isolated movements, they may make you look pretty but I am not sure they carry over well to the real world. I am guilty too, I spent 20 years benching heavy, and functional it is a fairly useless lift. I guess if I am laying on my back on the ground a motorcycle falls on me I will be ready, but otherwise standing military, or push presses are a much more "functional" pressing exercises.

When lifting to enhance athletics, I think cross-fit type exercise combined with the big compound movements is where it is at, focusing on specifc muscles maybe useful for rehab from injury, but otherwise, you body is not isolated in real word scenarios, so why isolate it in the gym?

I think athletes are best served trying to find the optimum way to effectively generate explosive power through movements and exercise that cross over to their sport. What ever muscles these movements develop are the ones you need, anything else is just window dressing.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #29
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Why I love compound movements is they promote functional strength, the kind of strength people who do heavy physical labor get just by doing there job.
How does a squat make your biceps and triceps stronger. By triggering a large scale muscle stimulus that will release hormones to increase strength.

Now Malcom says his lower back is not a weak link in his squat. Probably one reason he is a champion squatter. But it sure is for me, and for many others I know.

So why the pre-exhaust? With the legs temporarily weakened by a pre-exhaust, that large scale muscle stimulus will be a bit better than without. It is icing on the cake, so to speak. It is also a great thing for me as I was in a car accident in my 20's that limits how much weight I can support with my lower back. So getting a little more out of my squat with a lighter weight is a very good thing for me. Now if you are strong and hardy with no back issues, no need to worry about it.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 03:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by pjmariner View Post
When lifting to enhance athletics, I think cross-fit type exercise combined with the big compound movements is where it is at, focusing on specifc muscles maybe useful for rehab from injury, but otherwise, you body is not isolated in real word scenarios, so why isolate it in the gym?

I think athletes are best served trying to find the optimum way to effectively generate explosive power through movements and exercise that cross over to their sport. What ever muscles these movements develop are the ones you need, anything else is just window dressing.
This is a great point. In my youth I was all about free weights... bench, curling, flys, etc... quite useless exercises in hindsight. I pretty much changed to cardio, plyometrics, crossfit, and explosive or controlled bodyweight movements. My wife found this video awhile back and shared it with me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POdzasJklxw&sns=em

I'm a gym/fitness animal so I was really intrigued when I first watched it. I actually put the majority of my iso weights down and started going after some of the techniques. There's some AWESOME leg, core, back muscle engaging techniques in there. It took me about 2 months to work up to but now I can perform nearly every exercise in the 44 Best Bodyweight exercises video. There are a few current exceptions though. I haven't quite figured out single arm hanging hand kicks and the triple clap pushups.

One thing I will say is every single exercise translates to skating, will make you a stronger skater, and help with body posture in general.. Skating for me is body control, quick twitch muscle, explosive power, super core, and massive cardio due to the mass of muscles being engaged which require oxygen. Every technique in the video covers the bases.

One thing I would raise caution about is crossfit. I crossfit a couple of times a month. Crossfit is focused primarily on olympic style movements. It's extremely hard on ones body because you load a ton of compression on it. There's special classes required prior to joining crossfit camps to learn how to lift to reduce risk of injury. Every crossfit junky I know has sustained an injury from said techniques. My friends tell me it's inevitable in that particular sport. That's why I do it in moderation. No injuries yet [knock on wood].
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Old February 9th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #31
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Now Malcom says his lower back is not a weak link in his squat. Probably one reason he is a champion squatter. But it sure is for me, and for many others I know.
I don't know about champion but yes....I have a good squat

God I loves me a good discussion about squatting!
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Old February 9th, 2014, 09:36 PM   #32
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I don't know about champion but yes....I have a good squat

God I loves me a good discussion about squatting!
I thought you had mentioned some contest wins a while back. And some crazy weights used as well.

Functional strength. Boy, that buzzword is sure catching on. And cross fit. There is a buff dude I see at some sessions, has been doing some cross fit. He is having some doubts about it. Good for him. Just looking at it, it seems like a recipe for injury. Some of it looks cool, but other moves. No thanks. You all go right ahead. I'll stay with all the "useless" isolation movements and squats to stir the muscle growing pot.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 01:01 AM   #33
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I thought you had mentioned some contest wins a while back. And some crazy weights used as well.
Just on a state level....

600 at 197....

Haven't competed since 2006....

Making my comeback as a master this year
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Old February 10th, 2014, 04:03 AM   #34
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Default Squats far below 90 degrees as ONE Move..

Hi ALL,

I see some more posts and a real life skate person I know pjmariner entering into the foray. Great.. I have read a little since my last note yet not all of the posts. Matt hope you are doing good in your arguments.

The Internet = Be Careful on Squats science.

I just spent some time reading the internet on squats below parallel.

Long ago at the beginning of the Internet you could kind of count on the Internet since the info was coming from education institutes and medical places. You can still find good info on the internet yet you have to know how to do R&D and know URLs.

Anyway it seems like those who want to promote for various reasons a squat that goes below parallel are using some proven tactics. A few of them make me laugh since those same tactics were used for smoking and climate change. It starts off like "Those orthopedic doctors and physical therapists just don't know about the human body". yet I do. That is kind of a red flag to see if they really give you information and counter_points to support their argument. BTW they don't. So is it legal protection.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old February 10th, 2014, 04:21 AM   #35
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I just spent some time reading the internet on squats below parallel.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
If you want to read about a real full squat oddity, check out Tom Platz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6H-xs0fPyM

http://www.strengthfighter.com/2013/...tom-platz.html

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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:45 AM   #36
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I dont lift free weights, aside from my job. Its not that they arent beneficial, but Id rather train a more useful form while I strengthen my body. Your body has no idea how much weight its lifting, only how much exertion you are making it do.

Do you have any resistance training you can utilize for skating? Pushing/ pulling objects on skates, like a person on a bike, a skater, skating up a steep hill(that shiz kills) but that one is also limited to location. Here in WV theres tons of hills, so that my not be available everywhere.

Want some cross training? Kick boxing/tae kwon do kicks, and bjj shrimping.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #37
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Below is a video of my girlfriend I taped on Saturday doing Zercher squats, off a low bow, with 135 + 1 set of chains. Done this way it not only is a killer for the core, but also works on hip flexibility and acceleration.






PS....She is a physical therapist.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 01:58 AM   #38
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Just on a state level....

600 at 197....

Haven't competed since 2006....

Making my comeback as a master this year
Jeezus!! 3X weight...
Thanks for the video! Man I love that sound!
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Old February 11th, 2014, 03:08 AM   #39
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Jeezus!! 3X weight...
Thanks for the video! Man I love that sound!
Yes sir but that was a long time ago and there are people far stronger than me though 3x is considered a benchmark..we will see what this year brings...out of the past 14 months I've only trained 7 due to injuries for now I'm content to live osmosisly through my girlfriend lol.

I'll post more as I tape them

Ever done a Zercher squat? If not you should give it a try.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 04:37 AM   #40
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Yes sir but that was a long time ago and there are people far stronger than me though 3x is considered a benchmark..we will see what this year brings...out of the past 14 months I've only trained 7 due to injuries for now I'm content to live osmosisly through my girlfriend lol.

I'll post more as I tape them

Ever done a Zercher squat? If not you should give it a try.
Looks positively painful, and bruising to the arms. Not to mention it looks awfully close to a deadlift, so may as well do a deadlift. I am on blood thinners, so bruising is bad. Think I'll skip the Zercher.
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