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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old July 15th, 2014, 03:52 AM   #1
Tallmarsk8
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Two days ago I skated a 75 mile bike event in hot weather which is about my limit this early in the season or at any time for that matter. The last 1/3 of the distance was slow and wasn't very pretty to see or do. Today I went to go skating and found that I'd left both of the sweaty socks and both of the EZ Fits that I'd worn stuffed into one of the sweat infested boots. When I pulled them out I was surprised to find that there was a very strong and distinct smell of ammonia. I'm wondering why this is so and whether it indicates something about my metabolism. Perhaps this is a normal smell for sweat that has been unable to breathe or evaporate for two days? Perhaps this is an indication that I have a diabetic situation (seems like I recall some connection between that and ammonia?)? Perhaps someone with knowledge can tell me that this is a clue that I'm doing something nutritionally wrong?

BTW, the skates had been stored in a dry basement at about 70F for those two days.

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Old July 15th, 2014, 04:31 AM   #2
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Hahaha.....Ammonia is what happens when all those bacteria fire off their tracts.

You should be so lucky to get a sniff of my elbow and hand pads.


This is an awesome topic tho. And I have a follow up question. I have 3 pairs of Jug Big J liners for my 8 pairs of skates. All three are very well worn. I skate every day in one of them. Literally every day. They still smell like neoprene with just a hint, nay merely a rumor of foot. Almost like there once was a foot in it, but it didn't stay long, and only the toes were involved.

MY FUPCKN HAND PADS SMELL LIKE DEATH.

I wash my feet daily in the shower. I wash my hands upward of 4 to 8 times a day. If I'm working on the jetski or dirtbike, triple that.

I don't get it. I throw wrist guards away on a normal basis due to f'nstank. These skateliners are between 5 and 7 years old.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #3
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Foot2big - do you wear socks? I am always amazed how much worse my teammates' boot smell. The vast majority of them don't wear socks. Some wear EZfits, although I am not sure how often they clean them.

I don't get an ammonia smell, but I definitely get some pretty pungent smells on my clothes. The moisture wicking air dry only materials are the worst. Even the normal laundry cycle doesn't always get them out. I have a spray bottle filled with vinegar that is useful in these situations. Every once in a while something will come out of the washing machine, get spritzed, and thrown right back in the dirty clothes pile.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #4
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Does anyone know about the ammonia smell? Not stinky athletic smell or moldy smell but ammonia smell like I'd dropped a teaspoon or a tablespoon of ammonia* on clean sox in clean boots. Never happened before and I've been doing this skating thing since "rollerblading" was a growing fad.

Mark

*ammonium hydroxide in an aqueous solution for those wanting to correct me
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Old July 16th, 2014, 12:49 AM   #5
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Ammonia is created as a by-product of your body breaking down protein to fuel itself during prolonged exercise (muscle catabolism).

It's also the reason why bad breath is common when following eg Atkins diet as you are consuming a very high protein diet.

Here is the *fantastic* Sock Doc who explain it more:
http://sock-doc.com/2014/05/motivati...onia_toxicity/
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Old July 16th, 2014, 03:52 AM   #6
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Wow, thank you for that. In addition to the ammonia I have had (as is often the case after a difficult skate) no motivation to get out of the chair and do anything even though I feel as though I'm physically fine and could climb a mountain, skate a long distance etc., which is addressed in that article. Perhaps it seems also related that I had immediately after the event a strong appetite for peanuts and no fat cottage cheese which I ate a lot of in the following 24 hours. "...or those athletes deficient in protein" - Perhaps I'm currently not getting enough protein as I don't eat dead animals and don't pay attention to my protein intake. I'll re-read that and the related links a few times over until it sinks in. Any suggestions for a book or other web site related to this or good endurance nutrition in general? Any suggestions on how to monitor metabolic situations such as this short of paying to have an exercise physiologist follow me around drawing blood?

Thanks!

Mark
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Old July 16th, 2014, 05:07 AM   #7
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It takes some time to become truly deficient in protein. If you know the signs you can tell when you start to trend that way. I had that problem a couple months back when my diet didn't match the phase of training I was in.

You might also want to check your iron intake. It isn't a problem for most people, but if you aren't eating meat it is something that is more likely to affect you than other people. I've run into that a couple times too. I'm not a vegetarian, but sometimes my food prep can make it look that way for a couple of weeks at a time.

If you want to monitor calories, carbs, and calories, I can recommend myfitnesspal. It's easy to use. I really like the phone app that can take pictures of bar codes and bring up the nutritional information the users have entered into the database. I use it for 2 months a year, and the database has gotten a lot better from last year to this. It wasn't even that bad last year.

If you are really worried about protein but don't want to take the time to enter every meal, you can just track what you normally eat for a week at a time to see if you are on the right path. Then adjust your diet as necessary, and forget about it for a month.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 05:36 AM   #8
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I'm just curious how long does it take to skate 75miles? How many hours are you skating at one time, in one day? You have speed skates right? I'd recommend seeing a doctor and having labs done so you can really know what is going on. Get a physical! I'm vegetarian too (a vegan nurse as well). It will totally help once you know if you have any vitamin deficiencies. Even though your'e a dude it could be low iron. If it is iron, don't take iron pills, they will kill your intestines, take Floridax liquid. Also recommend seeing a holistic doctor if possible. Do you eat a balanced diet? I continue to swear by Daily Advantage vitamin packs, although two of the vitamins in the pack have ox bile (not vegan, this helps with your thyroid) and you can replace the fish oil with flax seed oil.

This has helped me immensely, but the most I skate is around 6 hours at a time. Good luck. Also, good recommendations from others.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #9
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Oicusk8: Physical yearly, though from a general doc, not a specialist in this stuff. As far as iron, I don't know but In my mind whether fair or not I lump it in with B12, folic acid, red blood cell count, and hematocrit (a fancy word I only slightly know). Three or four years ago I drifted too low in red blood and supplemented B12 and folic acid and was fine when I next visited my Dr. a few months later. Then it drifted a bit high and I've dropped the B12 and folic acid for the last three years or so. For the last 6 months or maybe a year RBC and / or hematocrit (not sure) been out of bounds high, the only blood test to be so, though at the most recent Dr. visit I was back within normal range. Why, I don't know. Just another reason I should be doing some studying on this nutrition / exercise physiology thing. As for the questions on time, I'm somewhere in the middle of the speed range (though that comparison depends on who you hang out with) and using racing skates. For the 75 miles including an abbreviated lunch stop it was 7:15. Or other example times typical for October would be A2A87Mi in 7:10 or Carolina Century (102) in 8:25. Come to think of it and relevant to this conversation when I complete one of these long distance events I'm probably one of the more used up examples of a spent human compared to others who have done the same distance.

WJCIV: You said "If you know the signs {protein shortage} you can tell when you start to trend that way". What signs should I be looking for?

Mark
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Old July 16th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #10
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You can get that ammonia smell by leaving wet clothes in a gym bag for a couple days too.

Tallmarsk8 your choice of wording leads me to believe you're a vegan/vegetarian. I'm the latter, and I get my protein from Eggs, and whey. Mainly whey tho...

There are vegan brands of protein supplements as well. RAW is one brand. Get 30grams in the morning and 60 at night and you should be good to go. Works for me anyway, and I skate every day with extensive pullups and pushups.

WJCIV, yea I wear heavy wool socks. It's pretty strange.
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Old July 17th, 2014, 06:34 AM   #11
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WJCIV: You said "If you know the signs {protein shortage} you can tell when you start to trend that way". What signs should I be looking for?
There are several symptoms. Of course, all of them overlap symptoms of other problems, and which ones hit you depends on so many different individual factors.

I personally see a change in my weight/body fat %/muscle % as well as feeling a little unmotivated to move or get up and post workout soreness lasts a little longer. These aren't unique to protein shortages, so I think back over what I have eaten the past couple of days to figure out what my problem is.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 08:33 AM   #12
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Honestly it sounds like you're ontop of your health. Who wouldn't be tired after skating 75 miles? You get regular physicals. Just be sure to eat a Complete Protein and do a little research if your not sure. Believe it or not most people in this country (oh wait, are you in the US?) WAY overconsume protein and that can lead to major problems. I'm sure you're super hydrating, right?

Trust me, we (all skaters) have stinky feet at times, sounds like you're super mindful around your lifestyle. Spent humans do not skate 75 miles!
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Old July 19th, 2014, 11:35 AM   #13
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Yes, you only need about 0.5-0.7g of protein per lb of bodyweight (even extremely active athletes). Most people easily exceed this level, so you are unlikely to be protein deficient.

What is far more common is an inability to use fat for energy due to too high sugar consumption and elevated insulin. Remember, insulin tells the body to store fat rather than mobilize it. Hence, once you begin to deplete muscle/liver glucose you body switches to breaking down muscle protein instead.

Consumption of sugary drinks and food during exercise only locks you into this cycle of elevated insulin and fat storage. This is unfortunately the typical state of many athletes who don't pay enough attention to their diet and metabolism.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 02:53 PM   #14
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Hey evilzzz, got a question for you that it sounds like you may know the answer. I don't take the gels and stuff because it just doesn't sound good to me, blasting a bunch of sugar into my body. What I do is have apple and orange slices. I know they are sugar but being they are fruit I feel better about it mentally.

What is your take on what I am doing?

I don't have much body fat.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 03:19 PM   #15
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Hey evilzzz, got a question for you that it sounds like you may know the answer. I don't take the gels and stuff because it just doesn't sound good to me, blasting a bunch of sugar into my body. What I do is have apple and orange slices. I know they are sugar but being they are fruit I feel better about it mentally.

What is your take on what I am doing?

I don't have much body fat.
Difficult to comment on individual cases because I don't know your diet or your metabolism. I'm think fruit is over-rated in general, and get a free ride on the back of veggies (thanks to that ubiquitous term "fruits & veg"), which are great for you.

What I am sure about however is that there is no "one formula fits all" solution on how best to eat and fuel for exercise, and that the common wisdom of "eating as much carbs" as you can is not only wrong, but actually harmful for the majority of people.

The idea of "fat-adaptation" is gaining traction in many sports - it has been successfully applied by ultra-runners, ironman triathletes and even members of the Aussie cricket team.

Worth a read of this article that popped up in my newsfeed today:
http://www.examiner.com/article/more...arb-paleo-diet

I do believe that everyone should throw away the FDA dietary guidelines and experiment to find out what works best for them.

I'm actually starting a blog on skating/nutrition in which I'll muse over a lot of this stuff. It's absolutely fascinating to me, and I believe it'll be common thinking in 10 years' time.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 10:34 PM   #16
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Man that's awesome evilzzz! Be sure to post the link to your upcoming blog! I'm a bit of a food purist myself. I'm constantly seeking more info on nutrition.


Losing almost 100 pounds will do that to a person.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 02:43 PM   #17
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FYI FWIW, I'm pursuing getting deeper into my originally posted situation with a locally referred exercise physiologist who is a former (still?) high level inline racer.

Mark
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 03:31 PM   #18
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YES! Please post where I can go to read your blogs and info.

People think I am a bit over the top with what I eat but they have all kinds of allergies and get sick a lot and I don't and I get out in all kinds of weather.

My stuff is really basic. I do not eat out, ever. I think that should be number one on any nutrition chart. Just my personal opinion.

I have three green smoothies with protein per day, plus my regular diet. I do eat steak but maybe once a month. Chicken and hardly ever fish which I know I should eat more, I just don't like it. Lots of beans and other vegetarian sources of protein. I put in Hemp protein which I swear by and I truly think it has improved my performance and muscle strength. I do worry a bit about if I ever got drug tested if I would fail or not but then if I did I guess I would just have to move to Colorado. Not a bad consequence if you ask me.

I do buy from a local organic food farmers market and even though it costs a bit more, when I stopped buying canned and packaged products from the grocery store, my food bill plummeted. Even with expensive veggies and fruits, they are far less expensive than packaged products.

One thing that happened to me was my weight drop was crazy. The first month I lost about 20 lbs and people thought I had AIDS. It was drastic but then it stabilized and basically I was carrying around 20lbs or so of extra fat, most in my belly but it also was all over my body, just couldn't tell as easily. The weight reduction seemed to really help with my endurance. But I am sure it is more complex than that.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 08:08 PM   #19
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on a side note of bodys making odd smells. Rubber itself and other polymers do sometimes give off an ammonia like smell. Though this probably isn't it for your situation, it does happen. I work at a rubber factory
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Old July 24th, 2014, 12:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
YES! Please post where I can go to read your blogs and info.
I wasn't really going to publicize it until I had a lot more content on it.. however it's already up: http://enduranceskating.wordpress.com/

Let me know if there's anything that you would like me me to write about specifically.
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