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Old August 20th, 2006, 04:38 PM   #1
buzzinghornet
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Default 2006 St. Paul Inline Marathon

What a disappointing race for me, it's like de ja vu all over again. Same ankle problem, and this time it's even worse. I didn't recover until 14 miles into the race. Then it's probably too late for me to do anything......... My time 1.45 flat, 4 min better than last year's. And now the embarrasing numbers, I finished 14 out of 16 in my age group, and 152 out of 172 in advanced. I will not do advanced next year, no way.........

The only consolation I got, I didn't finish last......

Looks like I need to vent some fustration next weekend at West Orange and Minneola/Clermont.
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Old August 20th, 2006, 07:43 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear that your race did not go as well as planned. Atleast you tried your best and made the best of it, not much else you can do with that ankle problem. Shake it off and keep your chin up
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Old August 20th, 2006, 08:16 PM   #3
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Uh oh - I guess I'll need to look out for you next weekend

An improvement is an improvement, so you should be proud of that. 1:45 is an excellent time.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 04:04 AM   #4
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Uh oh - I guess I'll need to look out for you next weekend
I think it would be "look up" instead of "look out".
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Old August 21st, 2006, 04:29 AM   #5
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Here's my split time, 25.04 for the first 5.25 miles, 55.28 at the half way point, and 1.24.01 for the 20.05 mile point. So, that's 12.6mph, 15.7mph, 15.6mph and 16.3mph for each segment. The average is 15mph, so that's about 4 minute mile.

And my last years time was almost 1.50. Split time 25.39, 55.54, 1.26.34. Speed 12.1mph, 15.7mph, 14.6mph and 14.6mph. The first half of the race almost had an identical time, but most of the gain came from second half.

By the time I came across the start line to start my second lap, most of the open category skaters had already gone off. So, it's kind of tricky to "weave" in and out of slower traffic while trying to maintain my momentum. Also, I couldn't use some of the smoother patch on the outside of the road which made the 2nd lap pretty tricky.

The ankle problem I encountered this year was far worse than last year. I recovered at mile 8 last year, but mile 14 this year. Plus, last year I was in a "no man's land" most of the time, but I had to weave around skaters who's 2 or 3 mph slower than me. So, I did have a harder time this year. And I almost fell yards from the finish line when I tripped over some sort of manhole or metal cover. I managed to keep my eyes sharp all the time to avoid anything on the road, but my eyes were fixed on the finish line and I missed the last one.

Well, there's always next year.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 11:26 AM   #6
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Buzz,
I met a 63 year old woman after the race who rapped it in 1:41! She looked 63 also, if you know what I mean. Skating is a humbling experience.

You are an inspiration to me. You consistently keep on pushing through your difficulties. Keep it up.

Did you see the sunrise race morning? That was awesome. From my hotel room on the 10th floor I could see the course next to the river, a sliver of crescent moon in the bluing sky and a ginormous red number one on top of the building down the street.

Seeing Joey Mantia skate Saturday night was worth the trip. He is freakishly fast and it seemed like he could have lapped the rest of the pack if he wanted to. He is just on a whole 'nother level.

The expo on Saturday was ok. It was just all the same stuff you see all the time. Nothing really interesting.

I might have, and this is a big might, I might have ridden in the same elevator as Jessica Smith. Her skates were awesome! She has the new hyper boots and they looked sweet. Her 100's were shiny and new without any road grime. Her backpack was ok, nothing special there. I really liked the way she made sure that the lady next to me had the correct button pushed also. If I remember right, she got off on the 7th or eighth floor. She left the elevator and she left our lives together. So sad. Jessica, I will always remember our elevator ride together... Call me, I'll be there!

The race for me was fine. I shaved a full 6 minutes off of my time. I bonked twice during the race. 5 miles into the race I just couldn't get going at all. Yuk. Then, at the 13 mile point my paceline fell apart when the advanced skaters in it pulled out to turn up Sibley. After that I was just bereft and broken. All by me lonesome. I started to zombie skate. Just moving my legs and wishing things were different. Double Yuk. Thank god a line came along to jump onto.

The end of the race for me will be memorable. I finally pulled myself together and was actually skating again. With a mile to go I was pushing hard and making good moves with the pacelines. You know how lines come up fast and then slow down? That was happening a lot! I was aggressive about moving in and out of lines and that felt good. I even sprinted on the outside to move to the front of the pack. Yes, it felt good to be skating again.

See you next year for sure!

Last edited by Pepper Montana; August 21st, 2006 at 12:27 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 02:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzinghornet View Post
Here's my split time, 25.04 for the first 5.25 miles, 55.28 at the half way point, and 1.24.01 for the 20.05 mile point. So, that's 12.6mph, 15.7mph, 15.6mph and 16.3mph for each segment. The average is 15mph, so that's about 4 minute mile.

And my last years time was almost 1.50. Split time 25.39, 55.54, 1.26.34. Speed 12.1mph, 15.7mph, 14.6mph and 14.6mph. The first half of the race almost had an identical time, but most of the gain came from second half.

....

Well, there's always next year.
Buzz:

Have you considered skating 5.25 miles before the start of the race to get that slow bit out of your system? I know I need about that for a warm-up.

Just a thought,

Dev
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Old August 21st, 2006, 03:25 PM   #8
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Hey, Dave, or anyone, Jessica runs an indoor speed practice, when she's in town, near Milwaukee. It's a small group, so she'll be happy to critique your form and give some personal suggestions. The team is a branch of the Wolverines http://wolverinespeedteam.homestead.com/ but if you want to come, email me japc@execpc.com for details.

Jessica is also planning a training camp for skaters who want to skate both ice and inline; email me for details.

Race morning sunrises are also special if you are at the start line early, watching skaters, sometimes hundreds, come first as shadowy figures in the dark, then as skaters ready to race as the light grows more bright.

Dev, interesting that you suggested a 5 mile warmup. I need about that distance before I get in good condition, and one of the countries top masters racers has told me that he needs that also. I don't actually skate that much of a warmup because I can skate OK with less, but I do skate some solid warmup, and am careful to race conservatively until I've gone about that distance.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 04:09 PM   #9
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Re: 5 mile warm up

I've found that I do better if I have a warm up that cycles my body through a pain threshold.

Indoors I need to to a couple of laps to make sure my body is ok, followed by 1000m at a sprint... I'm then set for the next hour or so.

Outdoors I need a couple of really fast miles followed by a couple pacing to reset the body...So 5 miles does not seems extreme. If I don't do that then I have to cruise at the same speed for the whole distance.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 04:43 PM   #10
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Congratulations Buzz on 4 minutes improvement over last year. With the injuries you have fought through recently and the ankle acting up, you did GOOD! Besides, it was just a warm-up, test run in preparation for A2A, right? On your comment, "Consolation...I didn't finish last", been there, done that, bro. At Ft. Desoto yesterday, I was introduced as, "Finally, last, but not least...". Yah, like I needed that.

Ken

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Old August 21st, 2006, 08:43 PM   #11
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Just checked the results - congrats to Speedy and Gless for the phenomenal finish times. Hope we get race reports from you all too
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 12:58 AM   #12
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Default gun time vs chip time

skated St. Paul this weekend, wave one of open. Purposely hung to the back of the pack not wanting to get involved in the pushing and shoving at the front of the line when the gun went off. My thoughht was chip is going to determine my time so why fight the rush. Then I see that the gun time is what places me not my chip time, doesn't seem right, what is the deal, anyone know? (lost 35 seconds)
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 04:29 AM   #13
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There are different philosophies regarding when race times should start, and I'm not sure of all the factors in this decision. The start time generally doesn't make much difference in a marathon. If you are skating mostly alone and/or for your own personal time, like a personal best, just subtract the 35 seconds from your time.

If you were in contention for an award, then you should have been in a pack, or ahead of it. This is a race, not a time trial. The purpose of a race is to compete with other skaters, head to head, and in the final sprint. If the race were chip to chip, and you were half a minute back from the winner in the final sprint, many people would consider it unfair that you'd be declared the winner just because you held back and didn't fight it out with the other contestants. Even if you started back, a good skater can catch up to a pack, although 35 seconds sounds like so much of a wait that it's purpose was specifically to be alone.

In the future, you can check with race organizers. Ask whether your category in that race is gun to chip or chip to chip. Then you'll know the rules of the game, and can decide how you'll play it.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 11:39 AM   #14
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Default times and rules

Thanks Jim.
So speaking of rules of the road, why are these not announced before hand and why are their no consistent rules for skating events between events.
Like why is it so different between Northshore and St. Paul, categories, how placement is determined, timing. Is their a governing body? Should their be?
I know I talk with so many skaters at these larger events and no one seems to understand why the differences.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 01:27 PM   #15
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Some rules were "announced" here: http://www.roller-dome.com/spim/info.htm

Others were on the rules sheet which you should have received in your packet with your number. Neither of these included the gun-to-chip rule. I'll recommend that it be included next year for St. Paul, and this year for Duluth.

Regarding announcing at the start line, I was the one who gave start-line instructions to the Pro and Advanced men. I know that most of the racers just wanted me to shut up and start the race (one reason I know is that I've also often been on the other side of the line). So I limited my comments to the most important safety issues, trying to ensure that everyone left the course on skates rather than in an ambulance. I did ask if skaters had questions.

Outdoor races are different because each one is run by its own organization. Actually, there is much cooperation between St. Paul and Duluth, you can see that if you compare rules, and in some joint marketing.

There is no national governing body which governs these races. There is a NGB which governs many indoor races, and some outdoor. It's rule book says that each marathon has its own rules.

Should there be a NGB? I think not. Why the differences? This is America. Each person who starts a business determines what he'll build, how he'll build it, how he'll price it, etc. As a consumer, you choose what you want. Often I don't want the same as you, so there is someone who sells what each of us wants.

A good example is the elimination race Saturday evening at St. Paul. This had never been done before, so we had total freedom to make our own rules. Actually, we decided to make some of the rules while the race was in progress. No one knew at race start how many laps would be run, just that it would be enough to finish the race with three skaters on the track. If we had to follow someone else's rules, we couldn't have run that race, a race which has been acclaimed as the best, at least for spectators, in North America this year.

Next year St. Paul will have some exciting new races. Duluth will have other good things. The Rattleskate race is Arizona http://www.arizonadustdevils.org/page17.html is totally different. Each race across America offers you a choice.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 02:36 PM   #16
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How could I have missed ldskater's time - 1:18 - amazing.....
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 03:48 PM   #17
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Regarding the timing issue, I just realized there's an interesting and relevant story. Several of the Master women had better times than the Pro women who won the race, and actually pulled the pros for a good part of the race. But, again, this wasn't a time trial; the Pro's understood the rules of the game/race, played it like the world's best which they are, and took home the big bucks.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 04:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Regarding the timing issue, I just realized there's an interesting and relevant story. Several of the Master women had better times than the Pro women who won the race, and actually pulled the pros for a good part of the race. But, again, this wasn't a time trial; the Pro's understood the rules of the game/race, played it like the world's best which they are, and took home the big bucks.
I think there should be a rule against different categories mixing together. If you are going to start seperately, there should be no intermingling. It's a seperate race. You are either racing together or not. Particularly if there are members of the same team in seperate categories. It doesnt take a genius to imagine the possible scenarios that could arise. I think this is a critical issue. We have serious rules against cross gender drafting, why isnt there a rule against cross pack drafting? I was in a pack of Pro-M skaters that were caught by the Vets and we made a concerted effort to stay in the back when we could have easily intermingled and avoided the hassles of being at the end.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 04:28 PM   #19
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There are pros and cons to various cross-drafting rules, and different people have different opinions. St. Paul management gave serious thought to the category cross-drafting issue, and decided what was published: gender cross-drafting wasn't OK in certain categories, and was in other cagegories, but that category cross-drafting was not forbidden in any categories.

Personally, I'm a strong supporter of cross-drafting. I think having that option makes races much more fun, which is why virtually everyone is there. Some people say that cross-drafting gives an unfair advantage to some. I don't think that's true, eveyone has the same opportunity to draft, although it is the luck of the draw whether the right pack for you comes along when you want it. The Masters did pull some of the slower Pro's up back up to Jessica, but she was savy enough to ride that train, let them pull her, and beat them when it counted, at the finish line.

It's not true that the two categories were a completely separate race; there were many commonalities. It could have been a separate race but wasn't, and isn't in more races than it is.

There were teamwork situations, there are in any race. People who are loners object, people who work with others love it. The cross-drafting certainly made for a more exciting race at St. Paul; this is the first complaint I've heard.

Masters and Vets could have inermingled, but it was equally OK for them to stay separate, their choice.

EDIT: One main reason for not probiting cross-drafting is that such a rule is very difficult to enforce. (At St. Paul, the gender cross-drafting rule is easier to enforce because of the hour start time difference.) If a rule can't be enforced, it works to the advantage of those who choose to break it, and to the disadvantage of the honest folk who choose to honor it.

EDIT #2: I've talked much with one of the Masters women who had a faster time than Jessica, and pulled her along, but got no money. This woman was very happy with the cross-drafting and how the race worked out. I've not talked with Jessica about this race yet, but have talked with her about others enough to know that she's also happy. Have had more casual discussions with others, think everyone involved in this situation was happy with the cross-drafting.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 09:46 PM   #20
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First of all let me clarify this by saying I'm speaking of Pro categories only.

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There are pros and cons to various cross-drafting rules, and different people have different opinions. St. Paul management gave serious thought to the category cross-drafting issue, and decided what was published: gender cross-drafting wasn't OK in certain categories, and was in other cagegories, but that category cross-drafting was not forbidden in any categories.

Personally, I'm a strong supporter of cross-drafting. I think having that option makes races much more fun, which is why virtually everyone is there. Some people say that cross-drafting gives an unfair advantage to some. It's not just the cross drafting, it's the prospect of team skating between categories. I don't think that's true, everyone has the same opportunity to draft, although it is the luck of the draw whether the right pack for you comes along when you want it. The Masters did pull some of the slower Pro's up back up to Jessica, but she was savy enough to ride that train, let them pull her, and beat them when it counted, at the finish line.

It's not true that the two categories were a completely separate race; there were many commonalities. It could have been a separate race but wasn't, and isn't in more races than it is. Of course it's a seperate race or they wouldn't seperate the start time. It doesnt matter what they do in other races, we're talking about this race with a seperate start time.
There were teamwork situations, there are in any race. People who are loners object, people who work with others love it. The cross-drafting certainly made for a more exciting race at St. Paul; this is the first complaint I've heard. Teamwork is great, but people from different races have no business team skating in a mixed pack with different categories.

Masters and Vets could have intermingled, but it was equally OK for them to stay separate, their choice.

EDIT: One main reason for not probiting cross-drafting is that such a rule is very difficult to enforce. (At St. Paul, the gender cross-drafting rule is easier to enforce because of the hour start time difference.) If a rule can't be enforced, it works to the advantage of those who choose to break it, and to the disadvantage of the honest folk who choose to honor it.
I disagree, a large percent of it would be apparent at the finish line and all you got to do is make the rule. No rule gets enforced all of the time, but most people do the right thing and since it's a pack sport, it would take a pretty decent conspiracy for someone to get away with it.
EDIT #2: I've talked much with one of the Masters women who had a faster time than Jessica, and pulled her along, but got no money. This woman was very happy with the cross-drafting and how the race worked out. I've not talked with Jessica about this race yet, but have talked with her about others enough to know that she's also happy.Okay that just doesnt even make senseHave had more casual discussions with others, think everyone involved in this situation was happy with the cross-drafting.
Who was the woman that was happy with the cross drafting? What does she have to lose, she still gets the same prize no matter what. I restate that there are plenty of scenarios where it's unfair and people could orchestrate plenty of unwholesome strategies. What if two or three of the Bont elite guys decided to drop back and team skate Tony Muse? What's to stop that?
Don't put the word "complain" in my mouth, I'm raising an issue. Hell, I drafted the Vets, but I stayed out of their way. At one point, I saw a couple guys from my pack ahead of a vet that was directly in front of me. Because I didnt want any fingers pointed at the guys in my pack, I offered to pull him up and around. He didnt mind, but if he had gotten dropped because of gettng stuck behind some of us you can bet your a$$ he would have minded.
If you're going to let them run together, then start them together, plain and simple, that's really what it boils down to IMO.
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