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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:21 AM   #41
slowsk8
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Ill collect myself later when im not on the road and explain.

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When you stride out your toes start to turn out like this \/ .
Not much if you have good form, and when they do it adds no speed unless you go with the "I get power from toe flicking" bunch.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 01:08 AM   #42
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When you stride out your toes start to turn out like this \/ . Well with longer frames it moves slower at the same speed. In a way ankle strength plays a role as well.
What you describe is a toe flick. It is generally considered bad form on inlines (the debate rages on for quads), and most good skaters put no power in it. The toe does enter that shape during the recovery of the stride, but not during the push.

I just measured my stride in a very conservative manner. From skating position to "fully" extended (and believe me, it wasn't actually fully extended) was 17 inches. Let's assume that your frame is 2 inches shorter and that you turn your feet fully perpendicular to the stride so there is a full 2 inch difference between our strides. 2/17 is a little less than 12% difference. If we measured a full stride properly and used a much more reasonable foot angle, that number would be less. That isn't close to the 7:3 ratio you describe.

I would place the extra stride on your technique and soft wheels, not on the frame length.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 06:18 AM   #43
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I wouldn't call my form toe flicking, and i take longer strides than probably even seasoned skaters on 110's despite me being on 80mm wheels. Ask doc what he thinks, he got to see us crank a couple laps out today. He had a radar gun out but I couldnt ever get a approach at it through the crowds. I saw me hit 22-23, but the time i really smoked past it it didn't register me that i saw. I had 4 or 5 people tell me we(myself and scottie) clocked 27 and 28 mph.

I think I shredded my wheels tonight though. They make a terrible crackling noise now. Ima check them tomorrow and see how bad they are split.

Also the ankle rolling and "toe flick" as everyone wants to call it isn't meant for putting power down its use is at high speed strides to increase your top speed. Ankles cannot be expected to handle lower speed power stokes, even with my higher cuffed boots theres a limit. I doubt I could utilize the same pushing style with a low cut boot and a longer frame. I don't know until i try.

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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:02 PM   #44
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Hey Mort, slowsk8, et al... good technical discussion about frame size, speed, form, etc... but it is significantly off topic. Maybe we should move it to a thread of its own so this tread can remain about "interest in events"?
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:05 PM   #45
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I wouldn't call my form toe flicking, and i take longer strides than probably even seasoned skaters on 110's despite me being on 80mm wheels.
I don't mean to badger you, but you seem genuinely interested in speed skating, and you seem to have the physical ability to do well. It's hard to help someone like that over the internet without seeming a little bit confrontational. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I looked up an older thread that had a picture of you (picture). If that is still your form, there is no way that your strides are longer than most. In order to lengthen your stride, you have to get down in skater position. The lower you are, the further you can stride. Not that you should stride as far as possible; once you leave your "power box" you throw your hips out of alignment.

In that picture, you actually look a lot like a converted hockey player. I have known several who are very fast, usually in the sprints when quick foot turnover is more prevalent. Invariably they have gotten faster once getting into skater position and adjusting to the new form, although they do end up taking 1-2 fewer crosses per corner.

If that picture is not representative of your form in general, I guess you can dismiss this comment.

EDIT:
For comparison, a picture of me from Nationals. I don't know how long until they remove this from their website. Yes, my toe is pointed. This is as I begin the recovery, but it is the best picture of my fully extended stride I could find.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:50 PM   #46
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Hey Mort, slowsk8, et al... good technical discussion about frame size, speed, form, etc... but it is significantly off topic. Maybe we should move it to a thread of its own so this tread can remain about "interest in events"?
. I agree we should, useful information for people to read.

A little back on topic!

The speed event I'm about to talk on was awesome. The best thing about it was everyone's sportsmanship. So many people had a great attitude win/lose and would congratulate all the skaters and such. It really was a great time with great skaters and great people. Last night at Neville was no different.

Sorry for the hijacked thread man. Lol.



Its cool man, and its also hard to believe someone talking about how hard they can go in sports, cause everyone i know from here that says they can skate... lol i chuckle to myself in inner dialogue, and say "you got no idea!" In my head.

Check out Scotty Thompson's underpush which i think is in the same thread. Hes pretty short and he's on a proline with some crazy sick ankle bend going on, anywhoo..
Well let me tell you what you don't know/cant see, about that picture. You couldn't lean in that corner on that floor. At least 4 skaters fell there earlier. I was also too tired at that point to get low and make a really long push, so i had to stand up a bit more. If memory serves me right, that was the last race of the day and we had already been to 3 or 4 session skates that weekend, plus speed practice with Roll Arena.

I tried to get low last night at Neville, and wiped out, burnt my left hand a little on the palm. So remember that i skate 80mm wheels, which you cant lean as much on without booting out. To make this worse in that race, those were 76mm wheels

Keep in mind you were at NATIONALS and had pristine floor conditions, larger wheels that lean much better than the hockey wheels i was on, a boot that isn't wide as all crap. Those 2 pictures are like apples to oranges.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 01:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mort View Post
. I agree we should, useful information for people to read.

A little back on topic!

The speed event I'm about to talk on was awesome. The best thing about it was everyone's sportsmanship. So many people had a great attitude win/lose and would congratulate all the skaters and such. It really was a great time with great skaters and great people. Last night at Neville was no different.

Sorry for the hijacked thread man. Lol.



Its cool man, and its also hard to believe someone talking about how hard they can go in sports, cause everyone i know from here that says they can skate... lol i chuckle to myself in inner dialogue, and say "you got no idea!" In my head.

Check out Scotty Thompson's underpush which i think is in the same thread. Hes pretty short and he's on a proline with some crazy sick ankle bend going on, anywhoo..
.

lol, me too brother.....me too
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