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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old July 14th, 2018, 05:18 AM   #1
Oicusk82huh
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Default Roll Line Matrix

I finally decided and bought the Matrix Steel. I thought they'd be heavy, but they are not at all. I was coming from a "package skate" that came set up with a plate and wheels, it was a Riedell 120 boot with a Powerdyne plate. It was very affordable and a great intro to quad skating, but I knew that I was expecting too much from the plate. It did not respond quite as well as I though it should, but there was no way to really tell which plate would be the right one for me.

YOU GUYS WERE SOOOOOOOOOOOOO RIGHT! I can't thank you enough for recommending Roll Line. After watching my favorite slalom skater using the Matrix (on a Risport boot), I kind of always dreamed of that plate, but the price on the titanium was high. I knew that if I went with another plate, I would always wonder what I was missing out on (without the Matrix).

I can tell you that tonight was the best skating experience of my life. The plate made my figures completely effortless. It took curves like butter. Twizzles were effortless (ice skating move, not sure what it's called on quads, maybe loop?). It made power-pulls (ice skating move) so easy that I could get around the skate floor twice on one foot (probably even longer, but I didn't want to burn out my muscles). I've never been great at backward power-pulls on my right foot, but tonight it was simple. I have been attempting spinning on my toes for about 8 months, but somehow I ALWAYS lose my balance mid way, or begin to wobble. Tonight my spins felt like gravity was going directly through my body and pulling me to the floor, I just kept spinning. Holy cow you guys, holy cow. Single tear of happiness. Also made the Grand Volte and Swan (slalom moves) beautiful and sweeping.

Now the not so great part and maybe you guys can help me out here. My double three turns are bad. On my old plate, I actually had to "sort-of jump" a little bit to complete double threes. Now I think my poor technique is showing. I'm gonna work hard to correct it, it needs time. Any advice is welcome.

It came with blue cushions. They feel just right, if anything I'd go one harder, would that be clear? I put the front click-adjustment to 7 and the back to 6. I put my new 7mm bearings into my old wheels (Varsity Radar Plus size 62mm). I used spacers which I never did before. They roll like a dream. I use a jam plug.

I'm on could nine, I just wanted to share. Thanks again. It has made all the difference in the world.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 09:22 AM   #2
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I am very happy for you. It's great and fun when a plan comes together.

On the 3 turns: if you are jumping it (which usually happens when you are learning it) then you are most likely not in the correct lean with weight distributed on the wheels properly AND not shifting your lean properly at the point of the 3 turn. I guess you were on ice before rollers and were able to do it there. On Ice you have a blade and it is more or less a single point to use for edges and balance. On wheels you have 4 points doing the same thing. Wheels complicate things a bit but the technique is the same but spread out more on rollers. Just remember your basics and get your edge and lean with it then tighten the edge before the 3 then shift weight to the center then to the opposite edge and lean equally as deep. I know it is easier said than done and until you get the feel, it is easier to jump, but you have to inhibit the desire to jump or hop it and follow good lean and edge and shift technique.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 10:18 AM   #3
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glad u like the upgrade, rolline has a good plate. not sure on the color of the cushions anymore for hardness as they are always changing them, yellow use to be the hardest before. enjoy them
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Old July 17th, 2018, 05:50 PM   #4
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I had similar experience, moving to the Roll-Line Dance amazing control.
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Old July 18th, 2018, 04:28 AM   #5
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Smile Yep the clear cushions are the next harder...lol!

I have heard excellent reviews on the EVO Plates.

And you just gave a testimonial on the Matrix.

Sorry to say I have not mounted up my Matrix Steel Plates yet.

They are still in the box sitting on the Kitchen Table...lol!

I have not mounted up my EDEA Piano boots either. Someday...lol!

2) I thought Jim gave a excellent review on how to do a "3"/Three Turn.

a) Hopefully you are practicing the "3"/Three turns on the Black Circles painted on the Roller Rink Skating floor.

b) Try to do the turn without throwing the upper body. Ultimately
you will keep the upper body still and do the turn with just the foot/ankle...only.

When you try to throw your upper body into the turn you get off balance and fall off the edge. You want to stand perfectly still and just do the turn flipping the ankle only. That should be the only part of the body that moves.

You can place your hands over the circle and then perform the turn.

The key is to move as little of the upper body as possible and just do the turn by pressing into the three/circle with your ankle...flip the turn with your ankle and then press the exit of the "3" turn with your ankle and come back out to the circle/back to the black line on the exit of the "3" turn.

I checked out those Varsity Radar Plus 31mm X 62 mm wheels. They should be just perfect. I have never skated on them, but they seem to have the same dimensions at my Bones 101 A wheels, which are 30mm X 63mm.

Note: If you want to make the Three turns easier, then Harder wheels like the Bones 103A 63mm wheels are the ticket. Another Hard wheel for doing three turns is the Roll Line, Ghiotto 53D Wheels, but those wheels Roll Line 53D wheels are made for figures only and not for general overall skating.

The key for doing jumps and spins on skates are smaller diameter wheels and the harder the wheel the better. As an example the hardest Free Style/jumping and spinning wheel would be a 57 mmm diameter, and hardness 97A from Roll Line.


We haven't talked about boots. But Freestyle skaters usually have stiffer boots.

But many people like softer boots, like the Riedell 297. Softer boots lead to injuries. Stiffer boots are harder to skate on but force the body to be over the skate and straight up in good body position.

As example Nathan Chan has to change out his boots out every 4 months.
Because they loose stiffness.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and thanks for the review...lol!
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Old July 18th, 2018, 05:48 AM   #6
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Great info! It's interesting you point that out, when I had a 59mm Fomac Harmony wheel on my skates, figure 8's were SOOOOO easy. However, I felt my joints A LOT with those wheels, WOW NO SHOCK ABSORPTION! I looked at the Giotto wheels, but I'm not in love with the compound for all around fun skating. The Roll Line Ice appears to be almost exactly the same compound as my Varsity Plus, but the width is much slimmer. I actually find this compound easier on my joints, and an all around pleasant experience for session skating.

While I do recommend the Matrix Steel for dancing and rhythm skating, it's probably not really the best for figures. It's a little squirrely, but when you compare it to my old plate, it's a dream. Everything is easier.

Ugh, back to the three turns. I don't think I was really doing three turns at all I was basically just hopping double threes and felt great because I could do the length of the rink, and only inside 3 turns. Outside double 3's never happened. So I'm back to square one. I'm gonna try it the way you're saying to. When I'm on my inside edge (inside 3 turn), my free leg feels okay going from back to front, but when I'm trying the outside three turn, I can get from front to back, but then when going from backward to forward, I can't figure out what to do with my free leg. It's so confusing. The figure skaters asked me to come back next week for some proper 3 turn lessons. Their rink is far away, so it is quite a trip but WELL WORTH IT. They have taught me so much and spend so much time with me, I feel guilty that I'm not paying, do you think I should offer? What is reasonable?

Does this look like something you'd recommend for spinning and jumping?
It fits what you said!

http://www.rollerskateusa.com/Roll-l...ustang5797.htm

I'm also interested in a stiffer boot. Tonight was the first time I ever felt this might be an issue. Not too stiff, but has to be stiffer than my 120 Riedell. 297 may be right for me. What do you think? Also, thanks again, I don't mean to be intrusive.

Also, have you guys seen or used these?
https://skatesus.com/product/edea-no...ock-undersoles
They look amazing.
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Old July 20th, 2018, 01:29 AM   #7
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Smile I will comment a little bit...lol! I'm not a figure skater.

Although I do figures in competition. I don't do the complicated stuff.

Three turns and double threes, outer and inner, I don't do in competition. So, I really don't want to comment on them too much. I'm learning those sometimes in my free time. I don't know what I'm talking about, so go to
some Artistic Skaters and have them help you. They will do it for free, gladly.
Everybody wants to help somebody learn. The Free leg is tricky, so have those artistic figure skaters help you where the free leg needs to be when making the "3" turn.

I would assume then you are doing a Forwards Outside "3" turns the Free leg is behind you? Someone who knows what they are talking about please comment....lol??? When doing and Forward Inside "3" turn, I would assume the free leg is behind you????? Please somebody who knows what they are talking please comment!!!!!! I would assume when doing a backwards Outside "3" turn the free leg is in front of you. Please somebody who knows what they are talking about please comment. I assume when you are doing the Backwards inside "3" turn the free leg is in front of you???? Please somebody who knows what they are talking about please comment...lol!


http://www.rollerskateusa.com/Roll-l...ustang5797.htm

The Roll Line Free Style wheels, 97A, 57 mm wheel is a good wheel, but if your boots are not too stiff, you might need the 95A wheel or numeric number smaller than that. As the boots get less stiff, the wheel compound has to be grippier, smaller numeric number to get the proper grip. Stiff boots force you to drive the wheels into the floor. As the boots get softer you put side loads on the wheels and your skates slip out...lol and you fall down. ..lol!

I think the 297 boot would be a perfect choice. I think a stiffer boot, you would not like. I have really stiff boots on my freestyle skates, which I have not skated on in over a year. But the stiff boots force my skate wheels into the skating surface, and force me to jump straight up and down. But they are very difficult to skate in and I would not recommend them for most skaters.

I have not use the undersoles you suggest. I have used many types of undersoles, but not the ones ones especially made to make the landings softer.
I'm sure they are perfect or fine for jumping.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and I hope I have been of some help...lol!
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Old July 26th, 2018, 05:49 AM   #8
Oicusk82huh
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I just wanted to thank you guys, especially Larryoracing for the help with the three turns. The new plate is so responsive that I literally need 1/4 to half the energy to do double threes. Your help was spot-on, specifically when you said not to throw your upper body, but instead to flip your ankle. Tonight I really worked on it. It's such a tiny move on the Matrix, just like you said, a flip of the ankle. It's a squirrely plate, so over-rotating is easy. On my old plates, it really took my whole body. I feel like I'm finally starting to realize all this plate has to offer.

I've got one more question. Do you spot when you spin? The figure skaters are teaching me to spot, but I feel like I have to spin really slow to spot. (By spot I mean choose a spot on the wall and look at that spot while spinning, so your head flips around at a different pace from your body). They say I should spin on one heal and one toe, instead of on both toes, but I like the skill connected to toe-toe spinning, it really looks cool. It's a lot harder than heal-toe. So when I spin it's super fast until I try spotting, then it's slow. What's your take on that?

Also, one footed spins on this plate are much easier. Did you guys have the same experience when you got your first artistic plates?
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Old July 26th, 2018, 08:36 AM   #9
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Hi Larry,


RE: "I would assume then you are doing a Forwards Outside "3" turns the Free leg is behind you?" and "I assume when you are doing the Backwards inside "3" turn the free leg is in front of you????"


Yes, you are correct on the foot position and it typically starts and ends in the positions you described...

PLEASE NOTE:

The FREE LEG doesn't really define a one foot turn (3 turn, rocker, bracket, counter). It is the edge beginning, the edge ending, the direction of body rotation.

The free leg can be an assist and add beauty to any one foot turn, but doesn't determine the actual turn itself. The free leg can be in front, back and along side the employed leg BUT ... BUT ... There are proper aesthetics and form using the free leg.

Typically the free leg should have a toe point (no toe up), and the Toe is slightly pointed out (away from the body not just straight except POSSIBLY in free style). The knee is typically straight and only slightly bent but not always,

With the toe pointed the foot should be low to the ground for figures but for freestyle and dance it can and usually is much higher. I personally like to have my toe plug or toe stop tracing the figure line.

The really important thing on a 1 foot turn is edge, and direction of turn AND that the cusp is the exact center of each turn.





Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Although I do figures in competition. I don't do the complicated stuff.

Three turns and double threes, outer and inner, I don't do in competition. So, I really don't want to comment on them too much. I'm learning those sometimes in my free time. I don't know what I'm talking about, so go to
some Artistic Skaters and have them help you. They will do it for free, gladly.
Everybody wants to help somebody learn. The Free leg is tricky, so have those artistic figure skaters help you where the free leg needs to be when making the "3" turn.

I would assume then you are doing a Forwards Outside "3" turns the Free leg is behind you? Someone who knows what they are talking about please comment....lol??? When doing and Forward Inside "3" turn, I would assume the free leg is behind you????? Please somebody who knows what they are talking please comment!!!!!! I would assume when doing a backwards Outside "3" turn the free leg is in front of you. Please somebody who knows what they are talking about please comment. I assume when you are doing the Backwards inside "3" turn the free leg is in front of you???? Please somebody who knows what they are talking about please comment...lol!


http://www.rollerskateusa.com/Roll-l...ustang5797.htm

The Roll Line Free Style wheels, 97A, 57 mm wheel is a good wheel, but if your boots are not too stiff, you might need the 95A wheel or numeric number smaller than that. As the boots get less stiff, the wheel compound has to be grippier, smaller numeric number to get the proper grip. Stiff boots force you to drive the wheels into the floor. As the boots get softer you put side loads on the wheels and your skates slip out...lol and you fall down. ..lol!

I think the 297 boot would be a perfect choice. I think a stiffer boot, you would not like. I have really stiff boots on my freestyle skates, which I have not skated on in over a year. But the stiff boots force my skate wheels into the skating surface, and force me to jump straight up and down. But they are very difficult to skate in and I would not recommend them for most skaters.

I have not use the undersoles you suggest. I have used many types of undersoles, but not the ones ones especially made to make the landings softer.
I'm sure they are perfect or fine for jumping.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and I hope I have been of some help...lol!
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Old July 26th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
I just wanted to thank you guys, especially Larryoracing for the help with the three turns. The new plate is so responsive that I literally need 1/4 to half the energy to do double threes. Your help was spot-on, specifically when you said not to throw your upper body, but instead to flip your ankle. Tonight I really worked on it. It's such a tiny move on the Matrix, just like you said, a flip of the ankle. It's a squirrely plate, so over-rotating is easy. On my old plates, it really took my whole body. I feel like I'm finally starting to realize all this plate has to offer.

I've got one more question. Do you spot when you spin? The figure skaters are teaching me to spot, but I feel like I have to spin really slow to spot. (By spot I mean choose a spot on the wall and look at that spot while spinning, so your head flips around at a different pace from your body). They say I should spin on one heal and one toe, instead of on both toes, but I like the skill connected to toe-toe spinning, it really looks cool. It's a lot harder than heal-toe. So when I spin it's super fast until I try spotting, then it's slow. What's your take on that?

Also, one footed spins on this plate are much easier. Did you guys have the same experience when you got your first artistic plates?
yes most spot but u wont see it every time its just for your head so u keep it up and in one spot on floor. the spin u do isn't an art spin and has no value for an art skater. they are doing an inside edge one foot spin with the inner front and rear back wheel.....or u can do it outside edge also but kind of ugly and not done that often. a real heel spin is done on both back wheels and usually with your leg free leg straight back in the air. have fun do what u like but learn the real art spins and will be fun and also give u variety.
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