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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old April 18th, 2018, 04:50 AM   #1
Oicusk82huh
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Default Kingpins and figures

I'm not an artistic skater, but I have a secret obsession with skating figures (ever since figure skating on ice). I could gladly skate circles and 8's all day long. It completes me.

Right now I'm on a 15 degree kingpin. I have loosened the action and it's just right for getting around circles. So smooth.

I want to buy a whole new skate set up because I have SEDS.

What frames do artistic skaters recommend?

I see these frames with 45degree kingpin angles, but do they fare well for figures? How about for one footed spins? Somehow my intuition tells me they don't fare well.

Thanks. I like to obsess before choosing. I've been obsessing for a year now. 15 degree seems absolutely perfect, but difficult to find for a build.
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Old April 18th, 2018, 07:31 AM   #2
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Personally I love the Roll-Line Giotto plate for figures, I'm not exactly sure about the kingpin angle, but it's not a 35-45 degree plate. The Roll-Line Ring plate has a steeper angle, (it's more like a DA45 which is really a 35 degree, but I'm still not sure about Roll-Line's exact angle) and is designed for loops instead of figures. I have both plates and prefer the plate with a 10-15 degree angle for figures because it's more stable and holds an edge easily, but the plates designed for loops are noticeably better for their specific purpose.
As for 1 foot spins, I find them easier on my Roll-Line Dance plates (35-45 degree or so) because it's easier to press and get the edge, but for freestyle skating overall I still prefer the Roll-Line Energy, which isn't nearly as reactive, because it's easier to jump with them. For overall fun skating I really do have to recommend the Roll-Line Dance, it's a great plate.
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Old April 18th, 2018, 09:14 AM   #3
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Thanks Slinkydog, your information is fantastic! Thank you so much. I'm still having trouble deciding, but now at least I have a real starting point!

Ohh, I've been digging in Doc Sk8's threads and look what I've found!!!
This was a quote from Doc Sk8...

Last time I measured, my Variant, Mistral, Driver, Navigator, Raffaello and Giotto were all 15. This is measured with a protractor to determine the angle off vertical of the king pin.

JorisKB (same thread)stated...

Dance, ring and spin have more angle, not 30, but maybe around 25.

This is all really helpful. I hope it helps someone else too. I'd still love to have some other people from the artistic forum chime in on their favorite frame.
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Old April 18th, 2018, 09:59 AM   #4
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check with the figure skaters at the rink you are at. or if any coaches are around, I am sure one of the rolline plates, or the Snyder figure plate would do u well.
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Old April 18th, 2018, 10:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
I'm not an artistic skater, but I have a secret obsession with skating figures (ever since figure skating on ice). I could gladly skate circles and 8's all day long. It completes me.

Right now I'm on a 15 degree kingpin. I have loosened the action and it's just right for getting around circles. So smooth.

I want to buy a whole new skate set up because I have SEDS.

What frames do artistic skaters recommend?

I see these frames with 45degree kingpin angles, but do they fare well for figures? How about for one footed spins? Somehow my intuition tells me they don't fare well.

Thanks. I like to obsess before choosing. I've been obsessing for a year now. 15 degree seems absolutely perfect, but difficult to find for a build.
heres a website for rolline plates. it has a chart when u click on a particular plate and shows u what it is used for. a couple of them have much higher figure use then others.

http://skatesus.com/category/roller/...-skate-frames/
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Old April 19th, 2018, 07:08 AM   #6
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Thanks. You know, that's a good idea. There is one rink about an hour and a half away where they do artistic skating. They're so nice. I'm sure they could probably even put my skates together when I finally decide on a set up.

I think at the end of the day, that will be the real answer. I want it all, a plate that can handle figures, spinning, slalom and rhythm, oh, and sliding! Ha!

Thanks again!
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Old April 19th, 2018, 10:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Thanks. You know, that's a good idea. There is one rink about an hour and a half away where they do artistic skating. They're so nice. I'm sure they could probably even put my skates together when I finally decide on a set up.

I think at the end of the day, that will be the real answer. I want it all, a plate that can handle figures, spinning, slalom and rhythm, oh, and sliding! Ha!

Thanks again!
if u want it to do all of that on the lower end of the cost might be the mariner or variant, on the next level would be the steel energy which I have and is a great plate or the mistral.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 02:55 AM   #8
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Those are actually the ones I've been spending most time looking at. I'll probably end up with the lower end of the cost spectrum (Mariner or Variant). I think they'd suit me fine.

Now that I'm checking out that recommended web site again, I'm noticing that the Giotto is in the same price range, but has no toe stop, I really like that, so that may be in the final line up too. I spend an insane amount of time on my toes, sometimes I catch my jam plug, so that's a thought. I'm guessing the Giotto is pretty much the same as the Mariner. It feels good asking artistic skaters. I really can't thank you guys enough for all this advice.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 06:45 AM   #9
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My dance coach uses the Roll-Line Energy because he thinks the Roll-Line Dance plate turns too much (I don't have that problem, however), and my freestyle coach did dance with freestyle skates, so I think the Energy and its lower end equivalents (which are really just heavier by a small amount) is the best multi-purpose plate. Because you're on your toes so much, the Roll-Line Giotto, which is the exact same thing as the Roll-Line Energy, just without a toe stop option, is probably the best bet if you're not going to do jumps that require a toe stop. Another bonus is that the Giotto is about $100 cheaper even though it's the same plate because it doesn't have the toe stop option! Though if you think you'll ever try toe assisted jumps, get the plate that at least gives you the option to.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 09:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Those are actually the ones I've been spending most time looking at. I'll probably end up with the lower end of the cost spectrum (Mariner or Variant). I think they'd suit me fine.

Now that I'm checking out that recommended web site again, I'm noticing that the Giotto is in the same price range, but has no toe stop, I really like that, so that may be in the final line up too. I spend an insane amount of time on my toes, sometimes I catch my jam plug, so that's a thought. I'm guessing the Giotto is pretty much the same as the Mariner. It feels good asking artistic skaters. I really can't thank you guys enough for all this advice.
either will do but without a toe stop u wont be able to do certain jumps or moves. good luck with whatever u choose
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Old April 20th, 2018, 05:40 PM   #11
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No problems there! I don't do much jumping (only the silly forward landing ones).

There is one more thing though, that does weigh heavily. The cones! I know that this is not the slalom forum, but skating through a line of cones is one of my favorite things. Because artistic skaters are more in tune with the performance of plates, I thought, maybe you could chime in here too. I've noticed that the 15 degree plate can't make such tight turn turns. Do you guys think the dance would be easier to make sharp squirrely turns through cones?

Do artistic skaters have to have more than one pair of skates?

My favorite quad cone skater on youtube uses a Matrix$$$. Why is the Matrix so expensive, is it for landing jumps or something? Does it have a similar angle to the Dance and Ring? Thanks.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 10:55 AM   #12
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No problems there! I don't do much jumping (only the silly forward landing ones).

There is one more thing though, that does weigh heavily. The cones! I know that this is not the slalom forum, but skating through a line of cones is one of my favorite things. Because artistic skaters are more in tune with the performance of plates, I thought, maybe you could chime in here too. I've noticed that the 15 degree plate can't make such tight turn turns. Do you guys think the dance would be easier to make sharp squirrely turns through cones?

Do artistic skaters have to have more than one pair of skates?

My favorite quad cone skater on youtube uses a Matrix$$$. Why is the Matrix so expensive, is it for landing jumps or something? Does it have a similar angle to the Dance and Ring? Thanks.
hard to comment on cones know nothing about them. but softer cushions also help quicker action along with trucks being looser. most cones I seen are inlines.
I would say most art skaters that do more then one discipline have more then I pair of skates and wheels also for the discipline they are doing. but in the old days skaters mostly had 1 set of Snyder plates and just changed wheels.....some might have had 2 if they did figures also.
look at the evo even more expensive, has a lot to do with the material of the plate and engineering of it I would say.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 03:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
No problems there! I don't do much jumping (only the silly forward landing ones).

There is one more thing though, that does weigh heavily. The cones! I know that this is not the slalom forum, but skating through a line of cones is one of my favorite things. Because artistic skaters are more in tune with the performance of plates, I thought, maybe you could chime in here too. I've noticed that the 15 degree plate can't make such tight turn turns. Do you guys think the dance would be easier to make sharp squirrely turns through cones?

Do artistic skaters have to have more than one pair of skates?

My favorite quad cone skater on youtube uses a Matrix$$$. Why is the Matrix so expensive, is it for landing jumps or something? Does it have a similar angle to the Dance and Ring? Thanks.
Yes. The Dance is crazy turn-ey. I love it but you must understand the tradeoff - Less control and less forgiving. 1/2 turn jumps are no problem with the Dance. But don't try full turn jumps as you do not have the stability for takeoff. Go with the recommended cushion with the Dance. Too soft is unstable and not skate-able.

I have Skated EVO, Dance, Energy. The EVO is by far my favorite. The control, precision, and balance are unmatched. It is truly as close to perfection as I have ever felt. The Matrix and EVO are similar. The Matrix will be a little heaver. Until you get into higher end spins the weight is the only difference. The EVO/Matrix have shorter cushions and put you closer to the ground. This is an advantage with stability and performance follows. The turniness of the Evo/Matrix is less then the other plates due to the shorter cushions. However I feel it is a fair tradeoff for the other advantages.

The Energy is a great plate. Much faster-acting and controlled than the Super Deluxe. However, for figures faster-acting may not be preferred.

I no longer skate the Energy as the Dance and EVO cover everything I could want to do. But then again I don't skate figures.

With most plates you can use softer cushions and make them turn more. However with Roll Line I would not go with softer cushions. You might go one level harder and still be fine but softer have never worked for me - too unstable.

If you can at all afford it, stick with Roll Line. Even the cheap $200 model will get you further than the $400 Snyder (my opinion).
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Old April 21st, 2018, 05:30 PM   #14
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If the Evo and Matrix have shorter cushions and put you closer to the ground, does that mean you'd have to get smaller wheels? Just let me know if that is a dumb question. Still a bit new here. I already have a good idea of what I'm gonna get, but can't hurt to learn.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 09:45 PM   #15
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When I was skating here in California, skaters usually used one pair of skates. Those that had two used Snyder Super Deluxe for dance and figures due to superior edge control. Freestyle skaters used Imperials since they could turn tighter which made spins easier and if they landed a jump on a hard edge the skate was less likely to go out from under them and send them crashing down on their hip. These days urethane wheels probably make a difference with jumps since the wheels grip better.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 11:38 PM   #16
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If the Evo and Matrix have shorter cushions and put you closer to the ground, does that mean you'd have to get smaller wheels? Just let me know if that is a dumb question. Still a bit new here. I already have a good idea of what I'm gonna get, but can't hurt to learn.
Good question. Honestly I have not tried the larger wheels so I don't know. I think larger wheels would work as there appears to be enough room. But don't take my word for it. The shorter Roll Line cushion is the same height as the Sure Grip cushion. So you would think there is enough room.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 11:44 PM   #17
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When I was skating here in California, skaters usually used one pair of skates. Those that had two used Snyder Super Deluxe for dance and figures due to superior edge control. Freestyle skaters used Imperials since they could turn tighter which made spins easier and if they landed a jump on a hard edge the skate was less likely to go out from under them and send them crashing down on their hip. These days urethane wheels probably make a difference with jumps since the wheels grip better.
In the Late 80's we skated Super Deluxe for freestyle and figures. We used Imperial for dance. Some of the more advanced skaters may have done something different for figures/loops.

The Snyders are like a Buick. They feel heavy and solid. The Roll Lines are like a Miata. Light and nimble. If doing just figures then maybe pick up a used Snyder plate. There are a lot of these around. I have 2 spare pairs myself if interested in purchasing used.

However technology has changed over the years and the Roll Lines are a better overall design in my opinion because they are more stable.
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 07:50 AM   #18
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Wow, that would be amazing! What size plates do you have? What model? I wear a men's Riedell size 7 boot. It's the 120 model. I'd take a size 160 Roll Line Plate. I haven't looked up Snyders sizing yet. Oh it looks like I'll have to measure my axel distance. Not home right now, but I'll be doing that soon.

Also, you've brought up another great idea. I could buy used! Why did that not occur to me until right now?

Thanks
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 02:21 PM   #19
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Wow, that would be amazing! What size plates do you have? What model? I wear a men's Riedell size 7 boot. It's the 120 model. I'd take a size 160 Roll Line Plate. I haven't looked up Snyders sizing yet. Oh it looks like I'll have to measure my axel distance. Not home right now, but I'll be doing that soon.

Also, you've brought up another great idea. I could buy used! Why did that not occur to me until right now?

Thanks
Well mine won't fit. I have a 170 Energy and my Snyder came off a woman's size 7, so it'll be too small.

The good news is your size is fairly common. So you can post in the Artistic facebook group, or monitor ebay.
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Old April 24th, 2018, 01:59 AM   #20
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Thanks for the offer anyway. Now I've been searching online. A lot of my friends that do dancing tell me I should get a shorter frame, but I'm thinking I'm not sure I'm ready yet. They say it has to do with my double three turns. I feel like I've got them pretty good, but they say it's too forced because the frame is long, and that if I got a shorter frame, it would be "easier."

Which brings up my inline skates. I have been a slalom skater on inlines for many years and my set up is much closer to a pair of Snow White inline boots, in that it's a rockered set up and I demand a MUCH MUCH smaller plate than most inline skaters would feel comfortable on. If I'm not on a super short frame I'll go crazy, they're like skis. But I just can't wrap my brain around toe picks on inline skates! The freedom there is that you can do some really beautiful ballet style toe moves. I get that people want to jump though, and it's totally awesome if that's what you're into. I can totally relate to flying through the air on skates, but I save that for ice skating. I lucked out and got a pair of $800 used figure ice skates for about $80 bucks!!! Again, on my figure ice skates i also actually prefer a shorter frame than is recommended, (only by a 1/4inch) and that was purely by chance, I just took what my coach bought me online for like $40 bucks! It was a really pricey frame, but I totally lucked out. In one single day my skating went from "okay" to "great". It was one of the most memorable experiences for me, how a plate or frame could serve as the catalyst for converting "thought to execution." In that way I was lucky to have a coach/teacher with years of experience.

Since then, I've become completely and totally in love with roller skating and now that I've found perfect slippery wheels, I just would love a frame to match. At this point I feel like I may be outgrowing my frame. I think a great place to start would be the Roll Line Giotto.
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