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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old August 17th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #21
Code Monkey
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Hey ajansen,

It was beautiful out today so I went for a good long hard skate. I wanted to write this to you so you could see how difficult it is to figure out your frame.

First part of my skate I was on my 4x110. Did fifteen miles averaging around 16 mph. Legs hitting their exhaustion point. Now I have been on my 4x110 for a solid 8 months. Skating about every day. Then got a call from work and had to go in for a few hours. Then just because I was in a testing kind of mood I went for another skate this time putting on my cado motus 3x110 1x100 13". Well guess what happened? I did another 15 miles but this time actually did it faster. Averaging 18 mph. And thething is my legs could keep going. So for now I am back on my 3x110 1x100. Sure my top speed I don't think is as high but I can not sustain top speed but for a 100 feet or so and then I am beyond spent.

What I think... is my technique is much better on the lower profile setup. This enables me to sustain a much higher speed. The legs not hitting their fatigue point was sort of key for me thinking that. There is so much about technique and if you watch the Joey Mantia videos he says this over and over. He mentions timing and I think for me it is so much easier to control the 3x110 1x100 because of the low profile that I am able to get lower plus control my technique better. More graceful. I think more confident in my "Fall" and able to extend it over further.

Another thing for me... I average on 26 miles, flat course, around 18 mph, sometimes more sometimes less but around that so I spend most of my time in a range where I have read doesn't really fully utilize the 4x110 setup.

Now experimenting is fun, but just wanted to share this info with you.

Have a great time skating.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 04:33 AM   #22
Mr.Auburn
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Shesk8 is completely correct. Technique is everything. Speed is still good to have but if you have no technique then you won't be able to handle going fast or go fast at all. I recommend for learning how to speedskate start with smaller wheels and for little kids to never put them on 110's, it is way to hard on their ankles. They need to be a certain height and size.
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Originally Posted by shesk8 View Post
Q re: 110's - they are harder to push around for many skaters. The speeds you are skating now are less relevant than the technique you posses when answering the Q: "when to step up to 110's?" Any deficiencies you have on 80mm, 90mm, 100m will be surely be amplified on larger wheels. As you go up in height you also increase the bodies lean angles. So, 110's demand very good technique, and the strength to muscle them(maneuver) unless you're immune to the side-effects of bad technique(blisters and boots rubbing, collapsing ankles, etc. ). If you're a pretty solid skater(technically) then up-ing to 110's won't be that drastic of a change, but for many that struggle already just to get on the top of the wheels it will be even more so a battle. Having good technique makes the transition to 110's easier, there is no question. For someone learning on speedskates, even coming from 80's or 90's, the 100's will feel award and tough to manage. Put them on 110's and most of their time will be spent correcting basic skating technique. Certainly one can learn on 110's, but it demands more balance & agility skills and strength, and patience to master good skating technique. I personally feel the time to move to 110's is when the skater is ready technically to make the move, and has achieved the most from their current skate set-up (4x100's) rather than learn to skate 110's and hope they can eventually learn to skate them. I guess my viewpoint would be to omit frustration from the experience. The epxerience will be far more enjoyable and rewarding if the skater making the transition has decent skills, otherwise it just sets them up for more bad technique on bigger wheels, without gaining any real headway, maybe even set-backs when not being able to handle the larger frames due to lack of skills or strength to skate them.

re: 5x90's(14.4") they are heavy, and longer, taking much more strength to turn/maneuver than even the 4x110's - that is due to the longer frame length. 5x84's are easier with a shorter frame length(13.0" / 13.2") - similar to the frame length of 4x110's, but with smaller, lighter wheels & lower wheel base. Someone who possess power, strength and solid technique can pretty much (as commented on) move from any sz frame/wheel combo and be good on them all.

The answer seems more of self-guided analysis - you are obviously free to chose, there is really no right or wrong answer, it's more based more on what you can handle or what you believe you can handle, then achieving it.

14-15mph is not a base pace on 4x100's. I am more about technique than speed, so stepping up in wheels and frame size would be more determined on technique than speeds achieved, unless you're flat-out maxed-out with 4x100's. You ought to be able to push the 4x100's in range of 17-20mph(flats). If you are not reaching those speeds there is either technique or strength, or both, holding you back. In which case work on those things then reward yourself with 110's later on! If you are able to frame-swap with skating buds to test out 4x110's that may help you decide if you are ready for the jump.

And, a reply to fast small wheels (because by nature I am compelled to question).... Hmm, unless you're stichin' behind a car 28-30mph on 4x76 wheels is impossible. Maybe going downhill? Even then I'd fear the deathly wheel wobble of short frames. Elite skaters are hitting average 24-25mph in pace lines on 4x110's(on the flats).

And, deck heights: 110mm - 100mm = 10mm. Some pitches of 4x110's and 4x100's are slightly lower (7mm or 8mm, like some of the CM frames), but the 2nd wheel height guides the overall frame height, and there is typically 10mm of drop between rear and front frame mounts. You can split the difference and run 100's on a 110 frame or opt for a hilo (same effect) to ease your way up.

Keep it vertical!

Last edited by Mr.Auburn; November 5th, 2013 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Forgot to post what I recommend.
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