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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old September 28th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #21
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in the area of plyos, i have been doing a workout for runners i came across called the Oregon PRoject Stability Program. It's really excellent.
It does require a little surgical tubing or stretch bands for some exercises - i simply use surgical tubing, which is avaailable at my local hardware store, about 4' or 5' needed.
Here's a brief discussion and simple diagrams: http://www.runnersworld.com/race-tra...ne?page=single
and here's what you will need to view to understand each exercise:
http://www.therapeuticassociates.com...ility-routine/
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #22
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Purpose of higher rep numbers isn't leaning or lengthening muscles, but to build endurance in lifts for the muscles. Good for us distance racers who push the same muscles over and over again for 90 minutes plus. I never lift to failure because I don't want to get injured. I am going to check out the band idea, though.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:38 AM   #23
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Donny, I'm no expert... But as I understand the science, it's pretty straightforward. You stress muscles lifting and they breakdown and tear. With rest they heal. They grow with repeated stress to prepare for continued trauma and eventually adapt. If you don't use them they get smaller and atrophy. If you stress them they get bigger. I'm not so sure you build endurance in a way that is different than strength, like making muscles endure more repeated trauma, except that you are making the muscle stronger. You can make the muscle stronger by making it bigger and there are many ways to that end. Bands, weights, water jugs, body weight... Again, ploys are acting on different systems, I'm only talking about picking things up and putting them down. I'm a HIT fan, so I guess that comes through...
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Old September 30th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #24
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Donny, I'm no expert... But as I understand the science, it's pretty straightforward. You stress muscles lifting and they breakdown and tear. With rest they heal. They grow with repeated stress to prepare for continued trauma and eventually adapt. If you don't use them they get smaller and atrophy. If you stress them they get bigger. I'm not so sure you build endurance in a way that is different than strength, like making muscles endure more repeated trauma, except that you are making the muscle stronger. You can make the muscle stronger by making it bigger and there are many ways to that end. Bands, weights, water jugs, body weight... Again, ploys are acting on different systems, I'm only talking about picking things up and putting them down. I'm a HIT fan, so I guess that comes through...
Higher reps deals with different muscle fiber types. Lifting is lifting, and you only get big under the right circumstances. NerdFitness has been a good resource for me on this topic, if you can get past a lot of the fluff in the article.

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2013...-training-101/
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Old September 30th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #25
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From the strength training coach at the university who happens to be my neighbor...

I was whining about my skating and not getting super fast or how hard it was to keep my heart rate down when getting around the 19 mph mark. He recommended lots of squats with dumbells, also lunges. His explaination was and using Joey Mantia as an example, Joey's muscles are so strong that at only 30% effort he is going as fast as I am pushing at 95% effort, therefore my heart rate shoots up and Joey is drinking a rootbeer float. My muscles are pushing at max, Joey's are so strong he is barely using them. So I started working on doing simple squats, lunges, low walks with 25 lbs dumbell in each hand. Well, that hurts! But after a month of doing it two times a week, I was cranking at 19mph and my heart rate was staying down... for a bit. So it does work. I guess that is why Joey does serious leg weight training.

Now you still have to do everything else. Weights, plyo, skate, intervals, slow skating, fast skating, long skates, short skates, breathing, balancing, diet, stretching, and other stuff I haven't thought of.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 12:56 PM   #26
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Higher reps deals with different muscle fiber types. Lifting is lifting, and you only get big under the right circumstances. NerdFitness has been a good resource for me on this topic, if you can get past a lot of the fluff in the article.

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2013...-training-101/
You can certainly use lifting to build Type 1 muscle fibers for endurance. But it's a lot like making toast in your oven. It will work, but there are probably more efficient approaches to getting that job done. In our sport we need (and I use "we" loosely in my own regard) endurance, but we also need strength as Code Monkey just illustrated exactly. You can build strength by different methods, but if you want to take the most direct route, lift heavy weights and low reps. Use skating, biking, running, XC skiing and the lot for building endurance. Unless you need to build very specific, hard to target muscle groups for endurance by using low weights and high reps, but I'm not that sophisticated and it's probably the purview of professional coaches.

Yes, I realize there is a mountain of information and advice out there advocating things like 50-60% max for like 20-25 reps and the claim is exactly the endurance building phase. I'd skip it and use Plyos for this. Use weights to get stronger. Use endurance activities to gain endurance. Folks like Arthur Jones were light years ahead of their time and science has been catching up and proving them right.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #27
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PBLsquad450, there's alot to it. Consider that muscles are made up of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fiber, and each is built in different ways, and each is needed to differing degrees depending if you are a sprinter or endurance athlete. Also consider that you simply do not want to go into the weight room and start throwing around high weight/low reps right off the bat, or injury and setbacks are much more likely.
But in a nutshell, start out slow, building base of low weight/high reps. This builds the endurance base as well, focusing on slow twitch muscle fiber. Then, as recommended by Publow's Speed on Skates, move into adding in some plyos , but only after muscles have built in some degree of strength. And lastly, the workout program may enter the phase of developing fast twitch muscle fiber with high weights/low reps, for explosive strength and sprinting.
So, best to evolve and develop the progression of weight training, as it will develop a necessary base, and also develop abilities for different and specific things, each in turn and at the right time.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 12:38 AM   #28
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PBLsquad450, there's alot to it. Consider that muscles are made up of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fiber, and each is built in different ways, and each is needed to differing degrees depending if you are a sprinter or endurance athlete. Also consider that you simply do not want to go into the weight room and start throwing around high weight/low reps right off the bat, or injury and setbacks are much more likely.
But in a nutshell, start out slow, building base of low weight/high reps. This builds the endurance base as well, focusing on slow twitch muscle fiber. Then, as recommended by Publow's Speed on Skates, move into adding in some plyos , but only after muscles have built in some degree of strength. And lastly, the workout program may enter the phase of developing fast twitch muscle fiber with high weights/low reps, for explosive strength and sprinting.
So, best to evolve and develop the progression of weight training, as it will develop a necessary base, and also develop abilities for different and specific things, each in turn and at the right time.
Hey OI, yeah, I get type 1,2 and 2a fibers and I know we need them all. And I get that there is a long tradition of espousing the model, including Publow... What you mention addresses two separate things, the risk of injury, I have mentioned prior on this thread, lifting low weight is a good way to build up to lifting heavy weight (relative in both cases to the lifter) but lifting low weight lots of times diminishes the benefit to a large extent. You need a level of baseline conditioning to lift with high intensity. No doubt. Even then, it is higher risk, I have mentioned that. The other part of it is the development of type 1, vs. 2 (sometimes called 2b) and 2a swing fiber (very loosely put). Developing muscular endurance is critical, and can be accomplished with weights, but why not use endurance activities to develop endurance muscle fibers? It will work better. And use strength activities to make your muscles bigger (definition of stronger, loosely put, since muscle only gets larger and smaller). If the goal is to get stronger, than you need to make muscle bigger, period. It will do that with lower weight and higher reps but not nearly as effectively. (Again, lifting to failure risks injury in either model. But that is where gains are made) if you lift enough reps you are just doing a different endurance activity and why not just do activities that are more efficient or more specific to your goal like running stairs? For your upper body, with limited exception, does a speed skater need to take time to develop endurance? Do you need to increase type 1 muscle fibers in your upper back? Or would you be better off increasing type 2 and 2a? Do I need endurance in my Trapsezious or strength? I know, you need both to some limited extent...

I'm not saying high reps and light weight is bad. It's just not as effective at developing strength. No, you don't want to go right out and start HIT lifting. Even a seasoned lifter risks injury. But hey, ours a very high risk sport. The danger of lifting heavy is marginal compared to inline speed, that's a key reason we aren't more popular IMO. I really think a lot of the high rep endurance advice out there is just a relic. As I said earlier, I really think the 8-12 approach is a great (and classic) compromise that increase safety while producing gains. With HIT, you can push further and even add in breakdowns and other methods of running your muscles out of gas. Off season is the time. Complex lifts and dynamic lifts are always best of course... But some isolation won't hurt.

I realized starting on this path that it was lightening rod territory. And I don't mean to diminish anyone's approach. I'm no expert. Not by any means. It reminds me of a story one of my dearset friends and most valued mentors told me... She asked a friend at a holiday, as they prepped the meal, why she cut a piece of the roast off before putting it in the oven? Her friend said, because that's how her mom did it... My mentor asked why her mom did that, and her friend didn't know, so they called her. The woman's mother picked up the phone, and upon hearing the question laughed uncontrollably! She told the two women, it's only because she never had a pan big enough for a whole roast.

In my mind, the early part of the off season is a good time to try to add strength. Then move to a middle position, adding in more endurance, and then add in a lot more endurance (rather than strength) right before getting out next spring.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #29
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PBL, i see you are advocating using HIT lifting for building muscle mass, and encouraging using other activities like running stairs to build muscle endurance. I think building muscle mass can actually be detrimental to an endurance athlete, and can actually diminish performance over longer races. Most endurance athletes i know try to stay away from bulking up muscle mass. And most endurance athletes i know that do use weights in their training program do them along with the other cross-training activities like stairs, hill sprints, plyos, bench hopping, etc. The point being, they try to avoid large massive muscles, and one way to do this is higher reps/lower weight, and doing the other resistance workouts you suggest.
Personally, i stay away from weights for the most part, and only use some dumbells to do lunges, a little squatting, etc. That's about it. I can't use large muscles, as running middle distance and long distance doesn't need it. I am much more prone to use resistance bands/surgical tubing workouts, and lunges and squats and plos using body weight only.
These make for great workouts, yielding greater stability in the core and very toned form of strength.
Weights are simply not a big part of most skaters workouts, and even less so for runners. They are used to a limited extent just because they isolate muscle groups so well, and are quick way to build strength. Atleast quicker than other forms of strength building. They are often used as a lead-up to the plyos becuase attacking plyos without some build up of strength can be very stressful to the muscles.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 02:38 AM   #30
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OI and PBLS, I think you guys may be mixing up some important points. When it comes to strength, what matters is the functional resistance the muscle can exert. The different muscle fiber types operate differently to allow the body to perform under different stresses. A better way to look at this discussion is from the perspective of perioditization. Publow discusses this in Speed on Skates, but does so somewhat inartfully. I see it like this: build, base, peak, transition.

Build would be for gaining strength, lifting heavy stuff with your legs and lower string. Lifting works all your muscles unless you are doing something specific, like power cleans or plyos. Like last year, my build phase is just weights, though I am adding some cardio this year to round things out.

Base would be for getting cardio endurance back. Lots of cross training. Get on your bike, run, definitely skate, but still lift. I like to focus on functional lifts with plyos of the same muscle groups in between each lift. This hits all the muscle fibers and accesses the same muscle groups that were just stressed during the lift.

Peak would be that time before the race. Basically sport/event specific distances. So lots of skating, but skating for speed more than anything. Think Fartleks, intervals, hills, resistance skating, etc.

Transition is just what you do after the race at the end of the year before getting back to build.

These are macrocycles. You can, and should, build microcycles into, at the very least, the base and peak cycles. Microcycles can also include rest weeks during the build phase, which is a good idea in the other phases, too.

Cycles matter because you get the complete picture. Strength, endurance, functional translation, etc. In theory, this is what makes you stronger and faster. My buddy who is a personal trainer, and my informal strength coach says that it doesn't matter what you are doing, strength is foundational for performance. You must weight lift to get faster! Well, at least to get faster sooner. You can skate your way to 20+ mph averages, but weights will get you there faster.

Back to my point, OI and PBLS, you are, to some degree, both correct in the sense that this is all necessary stuff. However, how it is implemented is also important. Endurance (cardio or muscular) are equally important, but so is transitioning all that power to its functional equivalent. Weight lifting must be included, but lifting less weight lots of reps isn't going to get you the same benefit as plyo/dryland when it comes to skating. This has more to do with how your body uses the strength created by weight lifting. That said, building cycles helps smooth this process out while making sure you are well rounded. Clearly, I have been reading too much Joel Friel.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 01:42 AM   #31
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Agreed OI, as I said earlier in the string, limited utility to skating... But even less to running middle and long distance. I think for skaters the form required for increasing speed necessitates greater strength in muscle groups not typically conditioned to sit into that form and maintain it for a length of time. Muscle mass for the sake of it, beyond some decent athletic balance, is just excess weight. On the upside, most good endurance athletes have very little to worry about with bulking up... For the very reason they are good endurance athletes! Most people can't bulk up much, which is why gainer products are a billion dollar industry. Remember, we are all born on a bell curve, so most of us aren't likely to be special endurance or strength athletes, we are too close to the genetic muscle fiber mean.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:01 AM   #32
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Donny, I agree with your post, but your opening paragraph blenders up some information. Periodization is crucial to race readiness. But that is very different than my proposed thesis, which is: lifting to increase strength will best benefit from lifting low reps and high load. The waste water, so to speak, in my thesis is that lower weight, high reps lifting is inefficient. Not useless by any means, just a waste of time. OIs last paragraph is great (toned is only a function of bigger, not of some other anatomical reality of muscle development, it really is simpler than all of that) and your muscle adaption to stressors is also great. For developing strength, stress them with shock and awe. For developing endurance stress them with endless demanding torture.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #33
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Hey, great thread.

I'm aiming for some quite ambitious things both on and off skates next year, so will be doing quite a bit more solo training than I have in the past this winter.

My broad plan is:

- Skate when you can. If the forecast tomorrow is for rain, then skate today. I'm aiming for 4 quality sessions a week for base training, with running and gym sessions thrown in. 2 days rest a week.

- Have more than one training venue, perhaps one near work & one near home etc

- Keep it low intensity until February, 75% max heart rate, and focus on improving my form.

- Participate in group skates at least once a week. Keeps things social.

- I will be really focussing on improving my diet. Gonna get back on my low carb diet and get lean and mean.. hope to shed 10% of my body weight.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #34
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Hey, great thread.

I'm aiming for some quite ambitious things both on and off skates next year, so will be doing quite a bit more solo training than I have in the past this winter.

My broad plan is:

- Skate when you can. If the forecast tomorrow is for rain, then skate today. I'm aiming for 4 quality sessions a week for base training, with running and gym sessions thrown in. 2 days rest a week.

- Have more than one training venue, perhaps one near work & one near home etc

- Keep it low intensity until February, 75% max heart rate, and focus on improving my form.

- Participate in group skates at least once a week. Keeps things social.

- I will be really focussing on improving my diet. Gonna get back on my low carb diet and get lean and mean.. hope to shed 10% of my body weight.
Evilzzz, training for the London Inline Marathon next year?

My buddy who is a personal trainer and strength coach suggested I get back to lifting weights during the winter months when we are buried in snow here. I got back to my weight routine in earnest this week. It is 4 days of super sets, and when done right, really get the HR going. I have been adding cardio, usually intervals, at the end of the work out to cover that also. Last year I learned that functional strength is very important for performance. Spending 8 weeks lifting last year really helped my speed, and I have seen an increase in my average pace as well as my top speed this year. Don't discount your time in the gym. Consistency helps, also.

Unless something changes, my first marathon won't be until July 2014, though there is at least one sprint (read 10k) event in June that I plan to use as a tune-up. It is hard to stay motivated when training a lone. Keep it up, and considering posting in the Training Log.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 03:14 AM   #35
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a few thoughts...
Evilzz, sound like a great plan. THat definitely works to grab your skate workouts when the weather allows it.
As for the low intensity until Feb., you might want to try to throw in a little cardio building by occasionally doing a minimum of 20 minutes of fairly hard. cardio takes a long time to build, as does muscle endurance, so working on it now is necessary to have the results you want by spring and summer.
Donnybrook, weights can have a place in the plan, but i would not forget the plyos, and would in fact tend to anchor a program more on plyos, core, abs, land drills, etc, than one grounded on weights. In my mind, weights are perhaps the least beneficial of all the above. I really like your idea of focusing on cardio at every step of the training!
One worry i have about weights is yeah, great, build a big-assed hunk of muscle to hammer your skates into the asphalt. But what is that going to do in terms of range of motion, of your stabilizer muscles, of your skating efficiency? Frankly, i could see it making a skater even slower. Lean muscle mass with a great range of motion, timing, and balance, with a solid, stable core - that is what i see in the great skaters i know of, and even great runners, for that matter.
One way or another, though, give it a go.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #36
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I think at any level lifting has its place. But for a hobby skater like many of us, building and maintaining bone density is a great reason all by itself to lift. Skating doesn't do that too well. Running is a gold standard. But lifting is excellent. Plyos are the bomb, I am doing one day of flexibility and Plyos, they require serious recovery compared to most everything else. I do core work as lifting. And frankly, I am surprised that my core weakened over skating season from where I stopped lifting last year. I have ramped up a focus on core strength in this winters plan. Torso rotators as well for the back. But I like lifting...
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Old November 10th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #37
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OI, since we have already started an argument on the internet, I can't say I expect it to go anywhere, but we can at least try to get some points out and let readers decide for themselves.

Push power is driven by muscle strength. I do not disagree that Plyos are important, which is why I do them, too. However, lifting isn't inherently bad when done as part of a broader training plan. I don't advocate just lifting weights and not doing any other form of training for skating. That would be a terrible mistake. However, in an off-cycle or build phase of a training program where the goal is to build functional strength for the benefit of increasing speed and performance, it is monumentally important and equally as beneficial.

The concept of lean muscle is an incorrect one in the sense that lifting weights won't get you to lean muscle. You build muscle mass by consuming more calories than you burn so your muscles will build up. If you maintain your calorie intake, or operate at a reduced intake for weight loss, you will continue to build strength but not build bodybuilder mass. Also, the notion that weight lifting will reduce flexibility is also not correct. If you are properly stretching and lifting opposing groups, you won't lose range of motion or flexibility.

I agree that stabilizer muscles are important, which is why I tend to spend some time on the balance board during the off season and incorporate ice skating as cross training. There are a lot of benefits to weight lifting, and if you want a tried and true avenue to building speed in skating, you should include weights in your training plan. It doesn't have to be a focus, and shouldn't be the only thing you do, but it sure doesn't hurt.
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Old November 10th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #38
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I think at any level lifting has its place. But for a hobby skater like many of us, building and maintaining bone density is a great reason all by itself to lift. Skating doesn't do that too well. Running is a gold standard. But lifting is excellent. Plyos are the bomb, I am doing one day of flexibility and Plyos, they require serious recovery compared to most everything else. I do core work as lifting. And frankly, I am surprised that my core weakened over skating season from where I stopped lifting last year. I have ramped up a focus on core strength in this winters plan. Torso rotators as well for the back. But I like lifting...
PBLS, plyos can definitely make you and I sore, and at one point, a skater coach even recommended not doing them the day before skate workouts, and as he said, skating is so very reliant on precisely executed form, and plyos can just leave you too sore to position yourself optimally until you adaquately recover.
Core weakening during race season- the same coach advised me to maintain your weights workout during race season on a once per week schedule precisely to maintain the strength you've built in the prior phases. As for me, i drop the weights during race season, but i absolutely never stop my core/abs workouts at any time of the year (i don't use weights for my core/abs). I do more in the winter, but still do atleast a few sessions each week all year long.
DonnyBrook, i think we may be agreeing more than disagreeing. You say:" If you are properly stretching and lifting opposing groups, you won't lose range of motion or flexibility." Yeah, i know that may be true. I am saying that lifting done either in an unbalanced way, or done for any significant amount of time as the sole or primary training component of a program, can very easily slow up a skater. NOt that it will, but it might. In my honest opinion, in my experience, weights can yield good benefits in a well balanced program, but they don't usually play a major role. Please don't get me wrong. THey are good, they help, but so do a bunch of other things, and without those other things, a skater is probably wasting their time. So, let's just say i am advocating using weights judiciously as part of total program. That's as far as i can go. Skating, core workout, cardio workouts, flexibility work, balance work, land drills, cross-training - you name it, i have just seen some athletes get so strong and agile by focusing on these. Weights can, too. BUt it is just part of the recipe, and there are simply some things you can't get from the weights, as you know. So, i've seen skaters hit weights a little bit, esp. this time of the year, but it has been a modest amount and it hasn't been a main focus of their program.
Of course there are exceptions, but i just haven't seen a lot of them. If you have, let me know, i'd love to hear about it, really.
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Old November 10th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by online inline View Post
PBLS, plyos can definitely make you and I sore, and at one point, a skater coach even recommended not doing them the day before skate workouts, and as he said, skating is so very reliant on precisely executed form, and plyos can just leave you too sore to position yourself optimally until you adaquately recover.
Core weakening during race season- the same coach advised me to maintain your weights workout during race season on a once per week schedule precisely to maintain the strength you've built in the prior phases. As for me, i drop the weights during race season, but i absolutely never stop my core/abs workouts at any time of the year (i don't use weights for my core/abs). I do more in the winter, but still do atleast a few sessions each week all year long.
DonnyBrook, i think we may be agreeing more than disagreeing. You say:" If you are properly stretching and lifting opposing groups, you won't lose range of motion or flexibility." Yeah, i know that may be true. I am saying that lifting done either in an unbalanced way, or done for any significant amount of time as the sole or primary training component of a program, can very easily slow up a skater. NOt that it will, but it might. In my honest opinion, in my experience, weights can yield good benefits in a well balanced program, but they don't usually play a major role. Please don't get me wrong. THey are good, they help, but so do a bunch of other things, and without those other things, a skater is probably wasting their time. So, let's just say i am advocating using weights judiciously as part of total program. That's as far as i can go. Skating, core workout, cardio workouts, flexibility work, balance work, land drills, cross-training - you name it, i have just seen some athletes get so strong and agile by focusing on these. Weights can, too. BUt it is just part of the recipe, and there are simply some things you can't get from the weights, as you know. So, i've seen skaters hit weights a little bit, esp. this time of the year, but it has been a modest amount and it hasn't been a main focus of their program.
Of course there are exceptions, but i just haven't seen a lot of them. If you have, let me know, i'd love to hear about it, really.
Both last year and the year before I swore I would keep up workouts 1x week during skating season. I didn't. Once I get outside I just love it and skate and skate. I did over 1K this season and with adequate recovery there just isn't time in my life. I'm going to focus on quality and recovery next year and keep up lifting and core (so I say now). But I am using weight lifting liberally. I use weights and lift but much of my plan is not lifting... 2 days, squat, split squat, leg press (negatives only), and calf machine followed by cable lifts, cable chops and seated row twists... Then adduction, abduction and torso rotator. This strengthens legs and prepares back for skating form (2-3 sets). 1 day is flexibility with 1 set of 14 exercises, 2 sets of pilar bridges (front and side) for 30-45 secs and 2-3 sets Plyos, knee tucks, 1 leg jumps in skating form, leg switches in skating form, lateral bounds with cross over (30 seconds+) and explosive reactive jumps. 2 days, 2-3 sets of bench press, seated row, lat pull, tricep push down, curls, overhead press, upright row followed by: side ups and back ups (roman chair), crunches, leg raises on power tower, and physioball leg curls. 2 days recovery, the day before and the day after Plyos.

I think our sport demands a unique strength factor because proper form is evil. But it is where all speed is derived. I think you need strength training for that. I will begin to take out and combine lifts and start doing interval work on the spin bike in about a month. Slowly, that will become the priority (3X week) and lifting will go to 2X week. Plyos will stay at 1. Plyos will advance through a three phase plan if I can manage it. Free weight squats will remain to the bitter end. This will become a HIT focus. (Donny, you really NEED a cage for squats, getting the weight into position is dangerous otherwise, I've been there. I lifted without a gym membership for years. This was a final factor, but I will say, I do love it. The oly bars, the machinery... It's nice) I row, spin bike or shadow box for 10 minutes with every session depending on what muscles are getting stressed.

The cable lifting sequence is amazing for your back. It will eliminate back pain from skating completely in my personal experience. Stabilizer muscles will get plenty/enough attention. I'm NOT using slide board because it's detractors I have read are REALLY opposed to it. But that would condition stabilizers too. In the lifting universe, if you can swap a cable for a free weight do it, if you can replace an isolation lift with a complex lift, do it. If you can replace a static lift with a dynamic lift do it. If you can replace weights with body weight do it. Range of motion will only be compromised if you blindly pick things up and put them down. Donny is spot on. Push, pull... But I will admit to some isolation work... It's vanity lifting. But arms have such small muscles they respond very quickly for positive reinforcement. I see so many guys in he gym doing nothing but arms and chest though! LOL! I'm doing the opposite. As for bulk, we are too worried about it. The length of your muscles will predict your muscle bulk capacity and most folks that gravitate to endurance sports will not really bulk up no matter what... It's nice to be worried that we will turn into Arnold, but we are just being silly.

And Donny, I don't see this thread as an argument on the internet, I think it's really fun and informative. I have followed your input all season on these boards and benefitted. And OI, well, it goes without saying, I appreciate your feedback immensely! And I use it, all the time. Your input on interval work improved my skating this season like nothing else ever has. Thanks bro!!
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Old November 11th, 2013, 02:05 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by PBLsQuad450 View Post
And Donny, I don't see this thread as an argument on the internet, I think it's really fun and informative. I have followed your input all season on these boards and benefitted. And OI, well, it goes without saying, I appreciate your feedback immensely! And I use it, all the time. Your input on interval work improved my skating this season like nothing else ever has. Thanks bro!!
This is a good point. We are here to help each other. That is one of the things I really appreciate about SLF. We may have different opinions, and we all do things differently, but if we didn't, we wouldn't learn anything from each other. OI, I agree, I am grateful for your input. PBLS, it has been great to watch your training, and pick things up from you, too.

PBLS, have you tried alternating your lifts and your plyo? I did this super set style in January, so a hack squat set followed by 25 fast tuck jumps. It is a new form of pain, but it helps activate all of those muscles you just lifted with in a way that is tuned to performance. I am planning on going back there again next January. Also, I am working on building a squat stand. There is a great website I found that has instructions for building all kinds of fitness equipment. It is more cost effective for me right now to build stuff than to buy it or go after the gym membership. I can't avoid the weights if all I have to do is walk down to the basement.

For now, I think I have found something for the off season that I like.

Day 1: Weights followed by plyo
Day 2: Weights followed by bike intervals
Day 3: Weights followed by slide board
Day 4: Weights followed by bike intervals

Ideally, I can get some skating in (ice or inline) on the weekends depending on the weather and Dome schedule. Otherwise, I will be happy to manage three days a week with the crazy life schedule. The workouts really only take about an hour, as the weight sets are fast, and usually finish in about a half hour.

OI, any tips for working out outside during the winter?
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