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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old February 18th, 2018, 06:38 AM   #1
Oicusk82huh
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Default Another king pin question

I skate on a 15% kingpin angle (the Riedell Juice-stock skate). My main skating is cone/slalom skating and rhythm skating. I absolutely adore this skate. But when I got them, they seemed stiff (like they couldn't cut deep enough edges).

By loosening the trucks, I got it just right, they are soooo amazing.

What happens when you change the king pin angle? If I went to a 10% angle, would it feel stiff, or could I just loosen the trucks, and then it would feel the same as the 15% angle?

I'm not saying I want a new plate, but I think at some point I'd like to build something.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 01:29 AM   #2
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I skate on a 15% kingpin angle (the Riedell Juice-stock skate).

Actually the Competitor is a 10 plate. (num lock on. D&H alt while typing 176 on the keypad. = ) That is not a Riedell sk8 per se. The boot is, the sk8 is a Sure Grip Competitor. So it's really a "custom" build. In other words, it was neither assembled by Sure Grip or Riedell.

My main skating is cone/slalom skating and rhythm skating. I absolutely adore this skate. But when I got them, they seemed stiff (like they couldn't cut deep enough edges).

Are the cushions black?? If so get some SG Super Cushions. They are far more resilient. The purple ones are close to the black ones on you sk8s but are much more fun to sk8.

By loosening the trucks, I got it just right, they are soooo amazing.

Yeah, isn't it?? And you have just scratched the surface. The aforementioned Super Cushions and a set "Harry's Stud" reverse king pins will greatly simplify your life. In fact, changing the cushions closest to the ground to cones will really liven things up.

What happens when you change the king pin angle? If I went to a 10% angle,

Remember you are @10 already...

would it feel stiff, or could I just loosen the trucks, and then it would feel the same as the 15% angle?

You are confusing 2 different aspects of the machine. Loosening the action means you need less force to turn the sk8. Changing the king pin angle on a conventional DA plate changes how much lean is required to achieve a particular turning radius. The two interact because of the way the weight is distributed on the action. Personally, I run my 15-30 plates with really soft cushions as the weight appears to be split between the pivot pin and truck yolk. 5-10 I run stiffer because of the way the weight appears to be almost exclusively supported on the cushions. My preference, YMMV...

I'm not saying I want a new plate, but I think at some point I'd like to build something.

BWAhahaha!! Of course you don't... SEDS is gonna get ya!! Hope this helps.

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Old February 20th, 2018, 09:30 AM   #3
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Thank you so much for responding. Changing the cushion sounds like a great idea! My plate is called the Powerdyne Rival. It says in the specs 15 degree kingpin angle...(they changed it to 10 degree on the newer Juice model). Here's mine...

https://www.devaskation.com/PowerDyne-Rival-Plate

The cushion is olive green. How do I know what cushion color would be good for me? Is it a weight thing?

I looked up those Harry Studs....um........wait, can I put those on my plates????

Sorry if I sound confused. Now back to the other question, will a 10 degree king pin angle feel to stiff? I worry because of the cones skating. But if I go too steep I'm afraid my spinning will suffer. Do I sound crazy? Sorry about that.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 07:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Thank you so much for responding. Changing the cushion sounds like a great idea! My plate is called the Powerdyne Rival. It says in the specs 15 degree kingpin angle...(they changed it to 10 degree on the newer Juice model). Here's mine...

https://www.devaskation.com/PowerDyne-Rival-Plate

The cushion is olive green. How do I know what cushion color would be good for me? Is it a weight thing?

Nope it's a personal thing. Weight is used as a starting point but invariably the manufacturers think every one needs a much stiffer set up than I like. Strangely, most of my customers seem to agree w/ me more than the manufacturers.

I looked up those Harry Studs....um........wait, can I put those on my plates????

They would have worked on the version I saw when I looked up the name. Your plates are already configured that way, so no need to worry there.

Sorry if I sound confused. Now back to the other question, will a 10 degree king pin angle feel to stiff? I worry because of the cones skating. But if I go too steep I'm afraid my spinning will suffer. Do I sound crazy? Sorry about that.

Not @ all. I personally really cannot tell the difference between a 10 and 15 plate. I do know sk8rs that spin like tornado on 30 actions however. It's all a combination of how the suspension is set up vs how skilled the sk8r.

Now, back to your green cushions. I have no idea what that durometer (hardness) is. That model came and went before I really got a chance to check it out. See if your dealer has an idea. Riedell used to list 4 different replacement cushions for that sk8. They only list one now. If you don't have any luck sorting this, let me know I have some folks that most likely will know.

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Old February 21st, 2018, 12:54 AM   #5
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Actually, my current set up is (in my eyes) pure perfection. I'm in love with my skates. All I had to do was get a harder wheel for sliding and spinning on one foot (and loosen the action).

The TRUTH is that I'd LOVE a pair of Riedell 172 boots, solely because they look sooooooooo cool. Some of my favorite skaters skate on those, and we skate similarly. They bought their boots and frames separately. Most of them (on that boot) have Snyder plates. So I've been looking at those Snyder frames. Here's what I've found....
https://www.skates.com/Snyder-roller...s-s/520390.htm
Most of those are either 10 degree or 45 degree. I believe my friends have the 10 degree, but they don't do cones. Also I have a jam plug. My friends don't have any toe stop at all. Do you have an opinion on that?

My real dream was the Roll Line Matrix, but then I saw that $800 price tag! Plus I don't see anyone on 172's with Roll Lines. It looks like at the rinks I frequent, they mostly have the Roll Line's on an art-type boot. So I think I've narrowed it down to a 172 Riedell boot with some type of Snyder plate. I'm thinking a 10 degree plate with soft cushions and I'd loosen the action.

Do you have any opinion on jam plug verse no stopper at all? Have you ever made that switch? I do a lot of spins where I put my right toe down on the floor while I sit and spin my left leg around and vice versa. Is my jam plug crucial for that?

I'm only asking you because you seem like a great resource. Again, I'm sorry if I'm making you nuts. I'm dying now because I didn't know what you were referring to SEDS! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA...... IT'S SOOOOOO TRUE

I come from 30 years of slalom inline skating (that's why I always call the plate a "frame"). I thought I was having fun until I made the transition to quads. Now I know true love. HA!
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Old February 21st, 2018, 04:56 AM   #6
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Actually, my current set up is (in my eyes) pure perfection. I'm in love with my skates. All I had to do was get a harder wheel for sliding and spinning on one foot (and loosen the action).

OK... I have always found the Power Dyne line kind of boring out of the box. I have a couple of sets of Reactors. Neither are stock.

The TRUTH is that I'd LOVE a pair of Riedell 172 boots, solely because they look sooooooooo cool.

They do.

Some of my favorite skaters skate on those, and we skate similarly. They bought their boots and frames separately.

Most sk8 builder like me see that as the way to personal perfection. The stuff that come already built is typically assembled to a generic recipe and you get a generic sk8. It may work well for you, it may suck..


Most of them (on that boot) have Snyder plates. So I've been looking at those Snyder frames. Here's what I've found....
https://www.skates.com/Snyder-roller...s-s/520390.htm

Pretty much covers the like. There are a couple off cool ones that are no longer made not shown any more, but the page you linked to is pretty complete.

Most of those are either 10 degree or 45 degree.

OK lets sort actual measurements from "advertising". Snyder plates are either 15 or 30. No 10s no 45s. They are all either based on the Super Deluxe action or the Imperial action.. They may have other names but when the DNA is traced back, those are the parents.

I believe my friends have the 10 degree, but they don't do cones. Also I have a jam plug. My friends don't have any toe stop at all. Do you have an opinion on that?

If a plate comes in an NTS version it is what I have. If it does not, Then it gets a plug. Some Jam Sk8rs do "plug spins" I don't get into that. The plugs just fills the hole so I don't wreck someones floor.

My real dream was the Roll Line Matrix, but then I saw that $800 price tag!

And?? I have built a few pair on speed boots. (not much into high tops) In most cases you get what you pay for however I am NOT a fan of the Matrix.. Without getting into a crap ton of details, it does not sk8 like any other Roll Line due to the shorter barrel cushions. Cool plate but needs the Energy suspension.

Plus I don't see anyone on 172's with Roll Lines.

I have done it. Put Energy's on 172 in North Carolina years back. Pro tip. Figure out what you think you would like, then find an expert and discuss it w/ them. Just because you don't see it does not mean it is not a good combo. You are just seeing the flock all rolling the same stuff. Not because it's the best either.


It looks like at the rinks I frequent, they mostly have the Roll Line's on an art-type boot.

And the 172 evolved from??? Arty boots. When you get right down to it all of Riedells line evolved from art boots. The first speed boot just had a shortened cuff. The shorter heels. Then they figured out that different types of sk8ing needed different details to get max performance.


So I think I've narrowed it down to a 172 Riedell boot with some type of Snyder plate. I'm thinking a 10 degree plate with soft cushions and I'd loosen the action.

Amusing concept... loosening the action. All my Snyder have the actions set to zero pre load. Any looser and you get rattle. That loose introduces a dead band in the middle which makes it really hard to roll straight.

Do you have any opinion on jam plug verse no stopper at all? Have you ever made that switch?

I spelled that out above..

I do a lot of spins where I put my right toe down on the floor while I sit and spin my left leg around and vice versa. Is my jam plug crucial for that?

I suspect having the plug keeps one from spinning on the toe of the boot..

I'm only asking you because you seem like a great resource.

Pro Tip. Go back and read my stuff. Pages and pages.. over 12000 posts.. Here, in the quad forum and the derby forum.... You may find many of your questions answered.

Again, I'm sorry if I'm making you nuts.

You're not. I do see I have to help you past some misconceptions, but I have made a career of that...

I'm dying now because I didn't know what you were referring to SEDS! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA...... IT'S SOOOOOO TRUE

Word on the street is I'm patient Zero. I have 3rd stage SEDS or I am immune. I am never sure which.

I come from 30 years of slalom inline skating (that's why I always call the plate a "frame").

Figured as much. My daughter was a national level inline speed sk8r.. I cross vocabulary accidentally from time to time.


I thought I was having fun until I made the transition to quads. Now I know true love. HA!

Yeah I know that feeling. Look, shoot me a PM.... I'll be frank, I'm tired of typing. Maybe we can find another way to do this.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 05:46 AM   #7
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Amusing concept... loosening the action.
Ah, don't ya just love it when they find the light on their own? Satisfying.

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Word on the street is I'm patient Zero. I have 3rd stage SEDS or I am immune. I am never sure which.
Who are you kidding, you're a carrier.
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 01:19 AM   #8
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then wait until he figures out the differences that cushions can make
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 07:09 AM   #9
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Ahem.....She, not he

Okay. Basically I want to try different things, but without money mistakes. You've been very helpful.

I'll PM you when I'm finally at that point. Thanks again. I'll be sure to bug ya soon.
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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Default Sorry about that.

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Ahem.....She, not he

Hmm maybe I need to request gender IDs of posters so I do not make those mistakes.


Okay. Basically I want to try different things, but without money mistakes. You've been very helpful.

I try, as do most of the other folks here.


I'll PM you when I'm finally at that point. Thanks again. I'll be sure to bug ya soon.
@ your convenience...
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