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Quad Speed Discussions about speed skating in quad roller skates.

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Old June 2nd, 2015, 07:13 PM   #1
Chiliphil1
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Default Looking for recommendations for new skates

Hey guys, I'm a new guy. I've been skating for a while and currently run a custom ordered set of skates which I am having a couple of issues with. My current set up is Vanilla boots (can't remember which ones) from about 2007, they were $150 back then, they don't make this model anymore. I am running sure grip nova plates, bones swiss bearings, and black (93a) power plus wheels.

The issues I am having are that the boots rub my ankle very badly, I have tried everything and nothing short of wrapping my ankle in an ace bandage keeps them from tearing my ankle up. The boots are an unlined hard leather, I am looking for something that has nice padding. I am currently looking at Vanilla brass knuckle black outs, sure grip s85, Jackson elite, and the online store I am looking at recommended riedell 965's (but those are pricey)

I am also having an issue I think with the plates. When accelerating from a turn it feels like my skates are binding, I don't know how to describe it but it's almost like I hit something in the floor and the skate just wants to stop. I come close to falling often because of this. I am thinking it is the plate flexing but I am not sure. I kind of want to replace it anyway as I am not crazy about the nylon plate, but it's what I could afford at the time. I am thinking I am going to go with the sure grip power trac.

The final thing is not really an issue but more of a question, I was looking online and found a pre made pair of skates that come with Hyper Shamans, and it got me to thinking, are shamans better than power plus? I'm feeling almost like my wheels are not very fast, almost like they are digging into the floor. These wheels are 93a which is the softest PP they make, the only reason I got them was for the color. I was thinking of going with a harder wheel, maybe a 97a but I am wondering how much better it would be in terms of rolling speed? Would I loose a noticeable amount of grip? The wheels I have hook so well it isn't even funny, the only issue is the rolling which isn't terrible but I notice it.

As with most of the skating world (as it would appear) I am going to have to buy sight un seen and can't return what I get so I am hoping for some recommendations on the boots, plates, and wheels. I think I am pretty happy with the bearings and don't really see an issue there. If there is something else out there that I did not mention but need to look at, please let me know.

If it helps, I am 5'7" 215lbs. Should be loosing some weight soon (had an injury) I skate smooth and I don't really do any tricks, jumps, anything like that. The most I generally do are some rolling 180's but that's about as far as I go, I just like to roll around the rink and try to go fast from time to time.

Thank you for any help.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 08:24 PM   #2
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I'm not a fan of padded skates. They tend to break down sooner, and the padding makes them feel tighter than the actually are when you tighten them, so they end up rubbing. A proper leather boot should fit to your foot and bend with it once it's broken in. Maybe try rubbing some leather conditioner into your boots.

The binding issue sounds like either the trucks are turning too far or the axle is loose in the truck. Can you push the axle back and forth inside the truck? If so you're probably going to have to replace the truck. If not see if you can put on the skate and lean far enough for the wheels to rub against the plate or boot. If that is the case you either want to replace the cushions or tighten the bolt at the end of the kingpin.

Wheels are a personal choice. The white Shamans worked well enough for me, but they wore out too fast. Right now I'm running Cannibals. I like their roll and grip. I have no experience with the Power Plus.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 12:44 AM   #3
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I'm not a fan of padded skates. They tend to break down sooner, and the padding makes them feel tighter than the actually are when you tighten them, so they end up rubbing. A proper leather boot should fit to your foot and bend with it once it's broken in. Maybe try rubbing some leather conditioner into your boots.

The binding issue sounds like either the trucks are turning too far or the axle is loose in the truck. Can you push the axle back and forth inside the truck? If so you're probably going to have to replace the truck. If not see if you can put on the skate and lean far enough for the wheels to rub against the plate or boot. If that is the case you either want to replace the cushions or tighten the bolt at the end of the kingpin.

Wheels are a personal choice. The white Shamans worked well enough for me, but they wore out too fast. Right now I'm running Cannibals. I like their roll and grip. I have no experience with the Power Plus.
Thank you for your reply, I will give those things a try.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #4
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I am built a lot like you. I and 5'9" and 220. I have found that Novas and other plastic plates almost always flex and I catch my wheel on the boot. A decent metal plate will help. The other factor seems to be truck angle. For me, 10 degree trucks is most likely to send the wheel digging into my boot. Many other big guys do not have this problem, so it may just be my perception.

For me, I get the best action (stable and agile) and the least boot bite from 16 degree action plates such as Pilot Falcons or Roll line. I am confident that the Nylon plate is your biggest issue, but the truck angle could be a minor factor.

As for boots, everyone will have their favorites. I generally do not equate padding with comfort in the long run. Good fit and quality leather are for more important. I have many boots... Higher cut Antiks, Luigino Q-4, Roller Derby elite, Bont Hybrid and Quad Racers, Reidell 595, Winner racing boots, and more. Each has their own pluses and minuses. But, for long term comfort, performance, and enjoyment; I would only recommend a good all leather boot with minimal padding. My personal choice for a speed/session skate would be a Reidell 495, 595, or 695. These are tried and true classics. I also recommend getting a custom color because the custom leathers tend to be a bit softer and break in faster. For what it is worth, my 595s were made in 1982 and still feel great. I did replace the tongue padding a few years ago.

Wheels: I like the feel of my Sure-Grip Zombies in 95A. For a grippy floor, I prefer the White Shamans. This is another area where everyone has their own preferences.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 09:22 PM   #5
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I am built a lot like you. I and 5'9" and 220. I have found that Novas and other plastic plates almost always flex and I catch my wheel on the boot. A decent metal plate will help. The other factor seems to be truck angle. For me, 10 degree trucks is most likely to send the wheel digging into my boot. Many other big guys do not have this problem, so it may just be my perception.

For me, I get the best action (stable and agile) and the least boot bite from 16 degree action plates such as Pilot Falcons or Roll line. I am confident that the Nylon plate is your biggest issue, but the truck angle could be a minor factor.

As for boots, everyone will have their favorites. I generally do not equate padding with comfort in the long run. Good fit and quality leather are for more important. I have many boots... Higher cut Antiks, Luigino Q-4, Roller Derby elite, Bont Hybrid and Quad Racers, Reidell 595, Winner racing boots, and more. Each has their own pluses and minuses. But, for long term comfort, performance, and enjoyment; I would only recommend a good all leather boot with minimal padding. My personal choice for a speed/session skate would be a Reidell 495, 595, or 695. These are tried and true classics. I also recommend getting a custom color because the custom leathers tend to be a bit softer and break in faster. For what it is worth, my 595s were made in 1982 and still feel great. I did replace the tongue padding a few years ago.

Wheels: I like the feel of my Sure-Grip Zombies in 95A. For a grippy floor, I prefer the White Shamans. This is another area where everyone has their own preferences.
Thank you very much for all the info! The boots I have I would say are about a mid level boot, not a Riedell by any means but not cheap either. I do think though that the leather is probably sub par, it's very stiff and not "supple" So, I will definitely look into the higher quality leather ones for my next set. I also appreciate your input on the plates, I agree and think that nylon was a bad choice for me but it's what I could afford at the time.. I will have to look at the truck angle on the power trac and see what it is.. I wish I could get some roll line plates but good lord those are pricey! As far as the wheels, I am really happy with the ones I have but I definitely feel that I can do better in terms of speed but wondered how much grip I would give up. The 95a may be a good option because it's in between the 93 I have now and the 97 that I was looking at with the shamans. I'm really just looking for a bit of easier rolling where it doesn't feel like I am skating through sand.

Again, thanks for the reply. I have a ton of options to look at and choices to make.. I sure wish there was a way to test this stuff before you have to commit to buying it!
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Old June 7th, 2015, 10:17 PM   #6
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I doubt that the Nova plate flexing is the primary cause of your issues.

I suggest you get a Bont carbon sole boot with low ankle collar. Mounting the Nova to it will eliminate all flex concerns and probably solve the ankle comfort problem too.

The stock Nova suspension setup with the standard metal trucks can go rather stiff as soon as trucks lean very much away from neutral, even with the dark indigo blue semi-translucent primo quality cushions. If you do not have these kind of cushions, then you need to get them. You indicate wheel bite may be a problem, but if suspension is tweaked and tuned well, this potential problem should be easily eliminated.

Then you need to really seriously consider upgrading the round head bolt kingpin concept to a reversed kingpin concept, preferably using titanium studs (or steel).

Once these upgrades are done you will have a very good speed skate setup.
Further improvement in the freedom of turning action can then be accomplished by replacing some retainers with washers and by reducing the lower cushion diameters from 1.00" to between .950"-.975"

There is nothing wrong with the basic Nova plate design geometry for giving excellent performance results as a speed plate. The PowerTrac is also an excellent box beam style metal plate that's very good for as a speed plate, but the stock PowerTrac suspension setup is very stiff and choked up, unless you do a complete cushion setup makeover which I have documented here in other threads.

PowerTrac with suspension fully optimized for maximum free turning using modified SG lower cone and 2-piece upper cushion scheme:


"SuperNova" plate with reversed kingpin upgrade using titanium stud kingpin and with indigo blue upper barrel cushion and reversed cone lower cushion (which can also be an undersized barrel). Action & wheel nuts 100% nylon locking interference thread fits; titanium fully threaded axles:
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Last edited by Armadillo; June 8th, 2015 at 07:26 PM.
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Old June 8th, 2015, 05:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiliphil1 View Post
Hey guys, I'm a new guy. I've been skating for a while and currently run a custom ordered set of skates which I am having a couple of issues with. My current set up is Vanilla boots (can't remember which ones) from about 2007, they were $150 back then, they don't make this model anymore. I am running sure grip nova plates, bones swiss bearings, and black (93a) power plus wheels.

The issues I am having are that the boots rub my ankle very badly, I have tried everything and nothing short of wrapping my ankle in an ace bandage keeps them from tearing my ankle up. The boots are an unlined hard leather, I am looking for something that has nice padding. I am currently looking at Vanilla brass knuckle black outs, sure grip s85, Jackson elite, and the online store I am looking at recommended riedell 965's (but those are pricey)

If you are having trouble with your boot rubbing your ankle why go with another boot with an akle? I agree with the other people who posted. Padded boots are comfortable, but don't last as long as a good quality leather boot. You may try to condition the leather on the boots you have now that may work. Otherwise you may look into something like a 195 or a Bont.

I am also having an issue I think with the plates. When accelerating from a turn it feels like my skates are binding, I don't know how to describe it but it's almost like I hit something in the floor and the skate just wants to stop. I come close to falling often because of this. I am thinking it is the plate flexing but I am not sure. I kind of want to replace it anyway as I am not crazy about the nylon plate, but it's what I could afford at the time. I am thinking I am going to go with the sure grip power trac.

Nova is a good plate, but flex may be an issue. Or the axel issue listed above. I had a pair of 122s, Laser Slider plates, and full width Hyper wheels back in the day. I would art skate on these along with everything else in these skates. I would get boot bite going into hard turns or some spins. Fast forward to the 21st century. I get mid width wheels on the same pair of skates and no more boot bite. Power Plus wheels are 42mm wide....I'd go for something more narrow if you think you have boot bite. also check the sole of your boot. My 122's had wheel wells dug out of the plastic sole by my wheels.
On the subject of the power trac. It is a good plate, however I would go with the aluminum trucks. At Connies that bumps the price up to $385. For a couple more bucks you could have a Snyder Advantage $425 or a Proline $429. I've skated my proline for a couple years now and find it bullet proof. The Advantage skates very similar, but weighs a bit more.


The final thing is not really an issue but more of a question, I was looking online and found a pre made pair of skates that come with Hyper Shamans, and it got me to thinking, are shamans better than power plus? I'm feeling almost like my wheels are not very fast, almost like they are digging into the floor. These wheels are 93a which is the softest PP they make, the only reason I got them was for the color. I was thinking of going with a harder wheel, maybe a 97a but I am wondering how much better it would be in terms of rolling speed? Would I loose a noticeable amount of grip? The wheels I have hook so well it isn't even funny, the only issue is the rolling which isn't terrible but I notice it.

Hyper makes a good wheel. Here is my 2 cents. See what other experienced skaters are rolling at your rink. Talk to the about what they would recomend. A harder wheel typically rolls with less effort than a softer wheel, with the exception being Roller Bones Turbos. RBTs have a thinner bit of Urathane (think low rider tires) so they roll like a much harder wheel, but stick in the corners like the duro listed. The are a mid width wheel with a lip like a full size wheel. By far my favorite off the rack wheel of all time! Want a special color.....just order the white ones and dye them with Rit fabric dye.

As with most of the skating world (as it would appear) I am going to have to buy sight un seen and can't return what I get so I am hoping for some recommendations on the boots, plates, and wheels. I think I am pretty happy with the bearings and don't really see an issue there. If there is something else out there that I did not mention but need to look at, please let me know.

If it helps, I am 5'7" 215lbs. Should be loosing some weight soon (had an injury) I skate smooth and I don't really do any tricks, jumps, anything like that. The most I generally do are some rolling 180's but that's about as far as I go, I just like to roll around the rink and try to go fast from time to time.

Thank you for any help.
I hope you find just the right set up for you.[/COLOR]
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Old June 15th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #8
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Thank you guys for the replies. I will definitely look into some low cut boots, now that you guys mention it it does sound like a better option. One question on that, does it affect the way I would be able to skate? Strange question but I'm wondering if I loose the ankle support would it make it harder for me to skate?

As far as the wheels, the RBT's do look pretty good, I was looking at them but wasn't sure about the narrow width on there..

Finally on the plates, I looked at connie's but they didn't list any plates at all, perhaps I was looking in the wrong spot? Here are the ones I was going to order http://www.lowpriceskates.com/sure-grip-powertrac.aspx They look to have the aluminum trucks installed, am I right on that?

Thanks again for all the help. It's so nice to be able to ask people who know, the biggest problem with skate stuff is you have to buy it to find out if it works, but once you use it, it's yours
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Old June 16th, 2015, 04:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Chiliphil1 View Post
Thank you guys for the replies. I will definitely look into some low cut boots, now that you guys mention it it does sound like a better option. One question on that, does it affect the way I would be able to skate? Strange question but I'm wondering if I loose the ankle support would it make it harder for me to skate? ...
For speed skaters, only inline skates need some minimum ankle support, not quads.
Optimum speed skating form on quads, holding a very low stance, demands that your ankles can freely bend in a lateral direction. The side-by-side wheels are meant to always stay in full contact with the rolling surface with your weight equally distributed between them.

This is what gives you ankle stability - all four wheels down and rolling in full contact with the floor. Without a low cut ankle collar, the boot can interfere with full lateral flex ankle bending, and this can tip your axles away from staying parallel to the rolling surface.

Getting the most power out of your leg push requires that it be wide, and demands that your pushing leg gets closer to horizontal.
A too "ankle supportive" boot can prevent the necessary degree of ankle flex required for keeping all four wheels down as the push leg starts going closer to being parallel with the floor. This is why the low cut boot is preferred, if not essential, for a quad speed skater.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 02:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiliphil1 View Post
Thank you guys for the replies. I will definitely look into some low cut boots, now that you guys mention it it does sound like a better option. One question on that, does it affect the way I would be able to skate? Strange question but I'm wondering if I loose the ankle support would it make it harder for me to skate?

As far as the wheels, the RBT's do look pretty good, I was looking at them but wasn't sure about the narrow width on there...
Like you, I figured the low cut boot wouldn't provide needed ankle support. All my skating years I had used hi-top art boots. But then, I built these:


Since I built these, I have not skated anything else. I tried my art boot setup again and my feet didn't feel comfortable. Back to the low cut boot! Now I have new skates on order( Snyder Royal plate with Riedell 595 redline boots). Yup, they are low cut boots. The Royal truck angles are not for everyone, but for me - I have skated Snyder Imperials for more than 35 years. So the royal will put more zip in my doo-dah!

Keep rollin
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Old June 16th, 2015, 09:50 PM   #11
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I realize that plate is very light, but ponder that a PD Arius with a 193mm WB is only 60 more grams. Has very good 8mm axles, solid interface with the floor , no power loss from cushions absorbing torque and very precise movements.

If you expect a stiff sole to help the novas twisting it will a bit but not much. Youd have to glue it, which makes a HUGE difference.

The PD Arius plate is not good for outdoors if you ask me. Too rigid, its fast but doesnt deal well with the impacts of cracks outdoors.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 11:24 PM   #12
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I had A LOT of trouble with my new Reidell 595s when they were new... blisters, rubbing til I bled, etc.
So I took them to a shoe repair shop.
The old guy that worked there told me to get a pair of shoe stretchers ($12 at Walmart), some leather softener (cream), and a hair dryer.
Insert the shoe stretchers, rub in the cream, and warm up.the leather with the blow dryer.
As the leather heats up, notch-up the stretcher a bit.
I did this every other day for about two weeks, ESPECIALLY before I went to the rink... no more stiff boots!
Wheels... Thanks to derby, you can now buy wheels in sets of 4.
I would suggest you get four 95s and four 97's, to compliment the eight 93s, and mix-n-match based on the floor you're on... pushers and speed wheels.
I like Roller Bones Turbo's... there's a variety of duros and colors, and the hubs look cool as hell.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 01:04 AM   #13
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Like you, I figured the low cut boot wouldn't provide needed ankle support. All my skating years I had used hi-top art boots. But then, I built these:


Since I built these, I have not skated anything else. I tried my art boot setup again and my feet didn't feel comfortable. Back to the low cut boot! Now I have new skates on order( Snyder Royal plate with Riedell 595 redline boots). Yup, they are low cut boots. The Royal truck angles are not for everyone, but for me - I have skated Snyder Imperials for more than 35 years. So the royal will put more zip in my doo-dah!

Keep rollin
Yes, that's sorta what I have now, I was looking at these

http://www.lowpriceskates.com/vanill...out-boots.aspx

The guys above are steering me toward these http://www.lowpriceskates.com/riedell195-boots.aspx

I have never skated on anything but the "mid cut" boots, the post above does point out a lot of plusses for the low ones, I guess it would just take getting used to.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 05:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiliphil1 View Post
Thank you guys for the replies. I will definitely look into some low cut boots, now that you guys mention it it does sound like a better option. One question on that, does it affect the way I would be able to skate? Strange question but I'm wondering if I loose the ankle support would it make it harder for me to skate?

No, unless you are skating an art boot that actually gives you some support for jumps....chances are good that you will not notice a difference. If you do it will be a good kind of difference.

As far as the wheels, the RBT's do look pretty good, I was looking at them but wasn't sure about the narrow width on there..

To be clear, the RBT is actually a mid width wheel with a lip so that it performs like a wider wheel when you need it in the corners. Highly recomend these. They will stick like their listed duro, but roll like something harder. Nothing but love for these wheels

Finally on the plates, I looked at connie's but they didn't list any plates at all, perhaps I was looking in the wrong spot? Here are the ones I was going to order http://www.lowpriceskates.com/sure-grip-powertrac.aspx They look to have the aluminum trucks installed, am I right on that?

http://www.conniesskateplace.com/Power-Trac-Plates-p/powertrac.htm It's listed under Skate components/plates frames. The one from lowpriced skates is not the aluminum trucks. Doesn't even seem to be listed as an option. Power trac is a good skating plate, but with the added cost of the aluminum trucks you are up to almost the $400 range. At that point you may as well add Proline and Advantage to your short list. I've skated both....about the same, Advantage is a bit heavier. I keep my prolines loose with soft cushions and sometimes get a pivot pin noise. Pivot pins are adjustable on the advantage that may be their "advantage" over Proline in my opinion.....lol

Thanks again for all the help. It's so nice to be able to ask people who know, the biggest problem with skate stuff is you have to buy it to find out if it works, but once you use it, it's yours
Skate people will usually let other skate people try out their gear. You never know, just ask. I figure if I haven't broken my current skates doing what I do there is no one that I can loan them to that will mess them up. You just have to be OK with the name "Fancy" on my speed strap
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Old June 17th, 2015, 05:17 PM   #15
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Yes, that's sorta what I have now, I was looking at these

http://www.lowpriceskates.com/vanill...out-boots.aspx

These boots have a closed toe box. So will not be adjustable all the way down to the front of your toes. These also have a heel, a small heel, but a heel. Vanillas tend to run wider, good if you have wide cave man feet.

The guys above are steering me toward these http://www.lowpriceskates.com/riedell195-boots.aspx

My husband has a pair of these that I have skated. Fits like skate boot should fit. Not too much, just enough to hold the plate on your foot. I love that it has no heel, I love that it laces all the way down. They also look awesome on your feet. No moonboots here. This would be my choice

I have never skated on anything but the "mid cut" boots, the post above does point out a lot of plusses for the low ones, I guess it would just take getting used to.
I went from a Reidell 122 to a Bont to now a low cut Bont....so it has the opening of a 195. Really not that big of a deal, something that you get used to within one session of skating.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 05:35 PM   #16
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The 595 (the picture earlier in the thread) is not a high cut boot. It's actually pretty standard for a speed skate. You'll even see it in the "Low Cut" area of Riedell's website. When we talk about high boots we usually mean mid calf.

I will agree that 595s take a while to break in. Mine took a few months because I skated an easy session once a week on them and didn't bother with conditioners. Once you get them broken in the will probably perform similarly to some of the even lower cut boots because the leather is flexible. The 395 is also a very popular choice for session/shuffle/jam/speed skaters.

Are there any rinks around you? The link you showed is actually $10 more than MSRP. If you buy from a rink they can typically send it back if you try it on before drilling holes to mount the plate. They may also throw in a couple weeks of session if you talk nicely.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #17
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Thank you guys and girls again for all the help.. Everything is starting to make sense now!

So, from what I gather I want Riedell 195's with Snyder advantage plates, and roller bones turbo wheels.. Sounds good to me. Perhaps this time I can get the bones ceramic bearings too, we'll see how much I can spend at the time..

I really appreciate all the advice, it's sort of confusing looking at the skate catalogs and not really knowing what's what.. I knew Riedell was good, obviously the $400 plates would be good, but it's great to have some help sorting through everything.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 04:36 PM   #18
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Unless you're skating outdoor, there's no reason to get ceramic bearings. Good steel bearings will roll better and smother than ceramics. Ceramic bearings are good for wet or very dirty conditions since they don't rust and the hard ceramic balls deal with contaminants better.

Just because they're more expensive doesn't mean they're better for every purpose.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 04:42 PM   #19
Fancy-Kerrigan
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+1
I skate just the regular old Bones Swiss with great success. I just took the rubber shield off and run them with the exposed balls towards the inside.
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Old June 18th, 2015, 05:30 PM   #20
Chiliphil1
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Ok, sounds good to me.. I run the swiss now, I just assumed that the ceramic would be better.. Guess I'll save my money! I do run the seals on mine, but I learned that oiling them is better than greasing, they roll much better.
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