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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old May 19th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #1
larryoracing
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Smile Acer ceramic bearings? Are they good for freestyle?

I can't find it, but somebody posted a link about the following ceramic bearings. I thought it was a good deal so I bought a set.

But my question is someone who I respect on these boards hinted that for a heavy person. Let's say 300 lbs, that it may not be wise to use ceramic bearing for jumping in artistic skating, because you could possible bend the retainers, which I think are plastic.

Anybody have any thoughts about the following bearings for doing freestyle in...ie...jumping on them?

Thanks for any comments.



Link to roller skating ceramic bearings.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40


627 Ceramic Ball Bearing size 7x22x7mm from ACER Racing's legendary Ceramic Nitride Pro Series bearing material. Perfect for 7mm axles. Incorporates ACER Racing's World Champion diamond polished silicon nitride ceramic balls, dual rubber no-contact seals, high performance nylon cage and German cream lubricant. The best ceramic ball bearing you have ever used or your money back. These are 7mm inner diameter. If you need 8mm inner diameter bearings we also sell those in our eBay store.
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Old May 19th, 2014, 04:33 AM   #2
Sir Aaron
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I believe that with ceramic bearings, they are more accurately described as partially ceramic. I believe the parts in steel and ceramic bearings are exactly the same except for the bearings themselves. I've read threads of freestylers breaking ceramic bearings but, frankly, I'd be surprised to see that given the amount of weight that would be required to crack a bearing.
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Old May 19th, 2014, 10:53 AM   #3
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i wouldnt use ceramics for freestyle,,,,,they have always had problems with cracking and giving in. use for figures and dance only, really just use bones swiss.
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Old May 19th, 2014, 11:02 AM   #4
larryoracing
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Smile Sir Aaron and Rick, thankyou for your answers.

As you can see from my posts I have a lot of thoughts going thru my mind.
And really even though I may never compete in freestyle again, my mind is still thinking about it.

I might try some light freestyle, maybe just some spins and possibly some singles but in general I got a feeling I will not use the ceramics for singles, but since it will be another 10 months before I get serious about skating, I will probably skate on the ceramics to practice dance, spins and rexing.


Sincerely,

Larry O

P.S. The bearings I'm using now are the Bones Swiss, non-ceramic, and they seem like a fine bearing...lol!
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Old May 19th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
As you can see from my posts I have a lot of thoughts going thru my mind.
And really even though I may never compete in freestyle again, my mind is still thinking about it.

I might try some light freestyle, maybe just some spins and possibly some singles but in general I got a feeling I will not use the ceramics for singles, but since it will be another 10 months before I get serious about skating, I will probably skate on the ceramics to practice dance, spins and rexing.


Sincerely,

Larry O

P.S. The bearings I'm using now are the Bones Swiss, non-ceramic, and they seem like a fine bearing...lol!
i hear ya and yes the bones swiss are one of the better bearings for the past 25 years or so
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Old May 19th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #6
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Larry,

If I look at the type of duty to which acrobatic skateboarders subject their ceramic bearings, I think you should feel very confident that the Acer Racing ceramic skate bearings will likely take all the punishment that freestyle jumping on roller skates can dish out too.

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Old May 24th, 2014, 11:01 PM   #7
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i wouldnt use ceramics for freestyle,,,,,they have always had problems with cracking and giving in. use for figures and dance only, really just use bones swiss.
I know people have said this on the forum, I just have trouble believing that.

That being said, I don't see why one would need ceramics anyways for freestyle. I use ceramics for figures, 8-ball for dance, and swiss L2 for freestyle.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #8
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Smile I really didn't know what ceramics were?

Sir Aaron, I didn't know what ceramics were. I just thought they were the best bearings for what????

It wasn't until I learned about them, that I learned ceramic is not as tough as steel.

Then I got to thinking I was out tricking myself and my real intentions for my skates were for freestyle, although I have only done about 10 waltz jumps...lol!

I did notice when I did these waltz jumps, I was making a lot of impact when I hit the floor/landed the jumps. It was like I was dropping 165 lb steel plate onto the floor and noise when my skates hit the floor made a loud noise.

I felt I was really abusing my wheels/bearings, without even trying to jump that hard. Its just the impact of the wheels hitting the floor.

Then I decided ceramic bearings are probably not meant for freestyle.

I could see how some of these elite freestyle skaters, after time, a few months/maybe 6 months, could thoroughly abuse the ceramic bearings and break them.

Especially if they were skating on plastic over concrete...not at all that uncommon. Get the picture???? Get the abuse on the bearings??Understand how the ceramic bearings crack and fall apart.Ending in injury for the freestyle skater.


Larry O


P.S. So it's probably not the wise thing to do, but I bet a lot of freestyle skaters still do it, to get the edge of going faster/speed on skates than from a non-ceramic bearing.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 12:24 AM   #9
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Sir Aaron, I didn't know what ceramics were. I just thought they were the best bearings for what????
The benefits of ceramic bearings are well advertised. The idea behind them is pretty simply. They don't rust, they have no pores or other micro imperfections which means reduction in friction coefficient. This would mean they are better for applications which require absolute speed or for cases where you would prefer better free roll.

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It wasn't until I learned about them, that I learned ceramic is not as tough as steel.
This is debatable. The advertising for ceramic is that they are ten times harder than steel.

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Then I decided ceramic bearings are probably not meant for freestyle.
No, they weren't built for freestyle. They were originally built for bicycles and skateboarders (think x-games type downhill at 70mph) who needed reduced drag. Steel will expand at higher speeds. Furthermore, any imperfections will create friction. At elite levels, this is a big deal. Ceramic will run with no lubrication and withstand high temps much better.

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I could see how some of these elite freestyle skaters, after time, a few months/maybe 6 months, could thoroughly abuse the ceramic bearings and break them.
I can't see it. Even if you don't buy the hype that ceramic are ten times harder than steel, they are certainly extremely hard. So hard that I'm dubious about claims of them cracking, breaking, etc.

Quote:
Especially if they were skating on plastic over concrete...not at all that uncommon. Get the picture???? Get the abuse on the bearings??Understand how the ceramic bearings crack and fall apart.Ending in injury for the freestyle skater.
Yeah, see my previous response. The biggest issue with any set of bearings is that the side to side forces put on the bearings cause a change in the raceways, which increase friction and end the life of the bearing. But I know people here have said they've seen ceramic break. I think I'd have to see it to believe it.

Quote:
P.S. So it's probably not the wise thing to do, but I bet a lot of freestyle skaters still do it, to get the edge of going faster/speed on skates than from a non-ceramic bearing.
I don't think it is unwise, I just think it is a waste of money. No roller skater, dance or freestyle, even comes close to the limits where ceramic over steel would make much of a difference. Furthermore, many "ceramic" bearings have steel raceways which means you can still have problems with rust, dirt, etc.

Where I've seen a real difference in the ceramic is in Figures. There aren't as many rotational forces put on the bearings and you need a lot of roll time with little effort. So even a minor difference is noticeable.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 02:39 AM   #10
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Smile See this interesting table that compares ceramic to steel bearings.

Comparison of Steel and Ceramic bearing Materials


http://www.bearingsworld.com/right_ceramicbearing.htm


The ability of a metal to deform plastically and to absorb energy in the process before fracture is termed toughness. The emphasis of this definition should be placed on the ability to absorb energy before fracture.


From the chart in the above link a steel bearing has a toughness of 25 and the ceramic bearing 6-7. Although the ceramic bearing is harder ( 1500-1800) as compared to steel bearing (700) it is more prone to breaking than the steel bearing. The steel will absorb the shock, ceramic will just crack/fracture.

Larry O
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Old May 25th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Comparison of Steel and Ceramic bearing Materials


http://www.bearingsworld.com/right_ceramicbearing.htm


The ability of a metal to deform plastically and to absorb energy in the process before fracture is termed toughness. The emphasis of this definition should be placed on the ability to absorb energy before fracture.


From the chart in the above link a steel bearing has a toughness of 25 and the ceramic bearing 6-7. Although the ceramic bearing is harder ( 1500-1800) as compared to steel bearing (700) it is more prone to breaking than the steel bearing. The steel will absorb the shock, ceramic will just crack/fracture.

Larry O
Yes, toughness/brittleness is the factor to consider. Harder materials are less "springy" than softer ones, and as a result they cannot deform very much under extreme loading before they may fail.

The more elastic steel balls will however also steal some rolling energy as they deform slightly more under normal loads. So, it is a trade off.

Normally, the bearing balls are not expected to be the "shock absorbers" of your skates. The urethane of the wheels and the suspension should be the primary components handling this duty.

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Last edited by Armadillo; May 27th, 2014 at 02:29 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 06:20 AM   #12
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I love ceramics so far. For me they are smooth and quiet. Theymade a noticeable difference to my Daughters Dances, freestyle not so much.

I got mine from VXB. They are local to me in

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/SB.

Good selection too.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 03:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Comparison of Steel and Ceramic bearing Materials


http://www.bearingsworld.com/right_ceramicbearing.htm


The ability of a metal to deform plastically and to absorb energy in the process before fracture is termed toughness. The emphasis of this definition should be placed on the ability to absorb energy before fracture.


From the chart in the above link a steel bearing has a toughness of 25 and the ceramic bearing 6-7. Although the ceramic bearing is harder ( 1500-1800) as compared to steel bearing (700) it is more prone to breaking than the steel bearing. The steel will absorb the shock, ceramic will just crack/fracture.

Larry O
I believe it. I've seen video tests trying to crack bearings. The problem is that I'm not an expert in metallurgy so a "toughness" of 7-10 doesn't mean anything to me. However, I suspect that whatever the "toughness" of ceramic bearings, it should be plenty to hold up to the stresses of freestyle skating.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 10:13 AM   #14
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I believe it. I've seen video tests trying to crack bearings. The problem is that I'm not an expert in metallurgy so a "toughness" of 7-10 doesn't mean anything to me. However, I suspect that whatever the "toughness" of ceramic bearings, it should be plenty to hold up to the stresses of freestyle skating.
you would think that but they really dont, i seen many of them fall apart and shatter, what exactly does it i am not sure, but the skaters i seen ruin them were wc skaters so maybe the double axles and triples and attempted triples had something to do with it.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #15
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Smile I'm not an expert either. I just have to make up my own mind.

I only glanced at the article about ceramic bearings.

It stated it's really the manufacturing process that determines the toughness of a ceramic bearing. They were talking about ceramics.

They said steel bearings don't have a problem with manufacture. The material itself is very strong. I don't know why but it seems when it comes to ceramics the process is tricky and that's what breaks the bearing.

So, if you are buying a cheaper ceramic, like I did you might have to wondering if something was lacking in the manufacture of the bearing, which would cause it to break.

They also said some bearings are steel in the inside and ceramic on the outside. Hinting if the bearing breaks it is the ceramic coming off the steel bearing inside.

When they break it could be the ceramic coming off the steel.

Also they said the toughness has to do with the crack along a anomalie in the ceramic. If their is flaw in the ceramic that is where the crack will start and break.


Personally for me I don't think it is wise to use ceramics for my jumps. If you feel it is no danger, well then that's your choice. It just scares me to think I could break a ceramic bearing and hurt myself skating. I don't want that risk.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani
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Old May 29th, 2014, 03:20 AM   #16
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Ok, putting aside the issue of breakage for a second, why spend the money for them? I just don't think you take advantage of the supposed benefits of ceramics in freestyle. You aren't skating at high speed (relative to the performance of a bearing) nor do you require extraordinary free roll. I just don't see the value to spending the extra money for this application. I'm also not sure how much less ceramic bearings weigh compared to metal. Perhaps I'll weigh them next time I pull them out of my figure wheels.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 09:12 AM   #17
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Smile Sir Aaron Excellent question!

Personally putting everything else aside. I want to use ceramic bearings, but I know the risks. Why? I'm old, tired and weak and I shouldn't even be skating. I need every advantage I can get to compete with younger guys or gals. I'm competitive in nature...LOL! Even at 59 years old.

Let's face it, Skating is a young man's or woman's sport. At 59 years old you want every advantage you can get to maximize your performance. If you can use a larger wheel, I want it, just to get a little bit better roll or speed in my skating...dance, freestyle or rexing.

I should go for a light skate but, but I didn't.....I sacrificed wt for strength, which I don't need. But that's what I bought... heavy skates instead of a light ones.

I should go for light skates, but I think they might break or wear out faster.

I'm really curious about what Donny Brook uses? I bet he uses ceramics. Why? I bet he wants that little bit of extra edge of speed, good roll that means he has more energy for his jumps and spins. He wants to win.

Hey after skating around a big rink it can get tiring...LOL!


Hey even Rick said the World Class Skaters used ceramics. For the same reasons. They wanted that competitive edge. I bet there are many world class skaters in freestyle that use ceramics. Why..they need every advantage they can get. I hear it's really competitive and many skaters just don't have the content.


I will use ceramics in my skating. Maybe even in my freestyle, but I'm going to be smart about it and cautious. And of course I'm not going to tell anybody for fear of ridicule...LOL!

Sincerely,


Larry O
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Old May 29th, 2014, 10:35 AM   #18
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There are three relevant physical qualities in the substance of a skate bearing. Two of them I consider primary and one secondary. The primary qualities are hardness and elasticity. Hardness is something everybody is pretty familiar with and a good ceramic is harder than steel but then again so is glass. This brings us to the second quality, elasticity. This is the ability of a material to absorb force through deformation and then return to its original shape and give most of that force back. Steel has excellent elasticity, ceramic like glass has virtually none. Ceramics do however do well in the third quality which is the ability to withstand heat. Ceramic tiles were used for the heat shielding on the space shuttle. Ceramics can do fine under a steady force and under high speed conditions like a long downhill run on a mountain. However the material does not tend to do well under sudden stresses like impacts. This is why we have so much broken ceramic pottery.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 10:45 AM   #19
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Larry actually most of the world class skaters didnt use ceramics, only a couple and they didnt have good results with them. for the most part 99% of them use bones swiss, in the old days there were fafnirs. the ceramics are really good for figures, loops and even dance but they arent that much faster to give you an edge or that much lighter. a similar thing happens with titanium, its stronger but more brittle, my son use to snap the titanium kingpins like they were nothing, but they didnt bend as much as the steel or aluminum ones with him. also the lighter axles use to bend much easier.

i am also talking about the most expensive ones and not the cheaper ones.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 05:03 PM   #20
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I will use ceramics in my skating. Maybe even in my freestyle, but I'm going to be smart about it and cautious. And of course I'm not going to tell anybody for fear of ridicule...LOL!
That and bearing spacers, right?

I'm using three different bearings. Ceramics for figures (and for a while dance). Qube 8 ball for dance. Bones Swiss L2 for freestyle. My daughter (7) is using Bones Swiss. My wife is using Qube Gold Swiss. My daughter (4) is using Qube Pink. I've also got a spare set of Qube Juice.

So I've tried them all!

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Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
There are three relevant physical qualities in the substance of a skate bearing. Two of them I consider primary and one secondary. The primary qualities are hardness and elasticity. Hardness is something everybody is pretty familiar with and a good ceramic is harder than steel but then again so is glass. This brings us to the second quality, elasticity. This is the ability of a material to absorb force through deformation and then return to its original shape and give most of that force back. Steel has excellent elasticity, ceramic like glass has virtually none. Ceramics do however do well in the third quality which is the ability to withstand heat. Ceramic tiles were used for the heat shielding on the space shuttle. Ceramics can do fine under a steady force and under high speed conditions like a long downhill run on a mountain. However the material does not tend to do well under sudden stresses like impacts. This is why we have so much broken ceramic pottery.
To be fair, the ceramic being used in bearings is closer to the ceramic being used in armor than it is to pottery. Theoretically, the bearings in skates should tolerate the impacts of skating without any problems (but apparently in the real world they do break).

Hardness is one of the potential major advantages with roller skating. That means ceramic will not pit, scratch, or suffer from micro abrasions which would slow down the bearing. Theoretically, if you were using ceramic bearings with ceramic raceways, you'd not even need lubrication. Rust and dirt would not be a factor. IMHO, this is more of a factor when you need free roll where rolling an extra 2 feet on one push means the difference between completing the figure and not.

Heat isn't a factor in roller skating...assuming one maintains the bearings so they don't run dry. It would be in downhill longboard where speeds get up to 70mph.

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Larry actually most of the world class skaters didnt use ceramics, only a couple and they didnt have good results with them. for the most part 99% of them use bones swiss, in the old days there were fafnirs. the ceramics are really good for figures, loops and even dance but they arent that much faster to give you an edge or that much lighter. a similar thing happens with titanium, its stronger but more brittle, my son use to snap the titanium kingpins like they were nothing, but they didnt bend as much as the steel or aluminum ones with him. also the lighter axles use to bend much easier.

i am also talking about the most expensive ones and not the cheaper ones.
How would be know what they use? It would be an interesting study. But Roll Line claims to dominate the market in plates and wheels. So are they also dominating in bearings?
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