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*** The SkateLog Forum Has Been Replaced by SkateDebate Dot Com ***
FROM SKATELOG FORUM HOST KATHIE FRY IN MARCH OF 2020:
NEW FORUM NAME: SkateDebate Forum
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Quad Speed Discussions about speed skating in quad roller skates. |
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#1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 20
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Hi all,
I wanted to get some feedback from experienced skaters about the best plates currently available for speedskating. My main question has to do with the degree angle of the truck and what is best for speed. It has been suggested to me that there is more smoothness in the corner and better, more consistent power on the lower angle (10 degree) of the traditional steel plates. Is this true or will a plate such as the Avenger do well for a speed skater like myself? |
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#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 5,719
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Yogi, welcome to the SkateLogForum! -- and the quad speed section too.
If you introduce your to the website search feature you will likely find much more background info to your question than will be freshly posted here. #1 there are pretty much no steel plates, with a few exceptions, they are all aluminum or plastics. #2 As far as best geometry, you are correct that the steeper (0-20 degree kingpin plates will typically orient their trucks to swing at a more optimally shallow angle and give a better power stroke for speed. #3 The steeper (30 degree) kingpin plates like the Avenger will turn further with less degrees of plate lean than the shallower action speed plate. This means that the track of your arc on turns can wiggle further as your precision of holding the correct plate lean slips off the mark. In addition, the Avenger DA45 type suspension tends to offer less stability near the neutral zone, since it carries much less of the skaters weight on the upper cushion. This causes the resistance to the initial truck swing away from neutral to me much lower than the shallower action typical speed plates - Reactor, Proline, and PowerTrac. #4 Some skaters with good skills can still handle the more responsive DA45 suspension without any stability issues. Some can even get decent speed from them, but they still have built in design issues that make reaching and sustaining maximum speed more difficult for typical skaters. -Armadillo
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Rollin' on AIR |
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#3 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 20
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Thanks Armadillo!
I use to do derby then started speedskating. When our derby team broke up, I stuck with speed as I actually like it better. I was leaning toward the Avenger before, but now that I am in speed, I get mixed reviews on weather I should get it for speed. Every bit of research I do tends to show that a plate like the Proline or something like it would be optimal. I guess I willl have to skate the plastics until I gather the cash for the right purchase. |
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#4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 5,719
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It is fiberglass reinforced and a box channel design similar to the Reactor. For the price you can't beat it for a speed plate. -Armadillo
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#5 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 20
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Thanks, any suggestions for a decent aluminum plate?
I mean, I would love to have a Proline, but is it worth the money? |
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,517
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Proline, Boen, Ultimate 3 or 4, WIP, Galaxy or Powertrack............if speed is your goal get a speed plate.
The king of speed plates is a Boen Speed. |
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#7 | ||
I 'do' Swisher Sweet #143
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: North Los Angeles Quad Speed Skater www.SwisherSkate.com SWISHER Skating Products (coming soon)
Posts: 491
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Just my 10 cents worth ![]() Also... Quote:
And here's something -You can control your speed stability by putting better emphasis on choosing the proper 'Bushing' durometer configurations. Not enough Quad SPeed skaters (or Derby or Artistic or others) put enough emphasis on what type of set-up they have in regards to what bushings lay over their Kingpin. 45* angled KP's are NOT 'unstable' as some is stating, they just provide a much sharper and responsive turn-ability. Now if you're Speed Skating and racing straight-away's or large oval track configurations, then you aren't worried about your cross overs or flex turns as much as if you were racing on standard rink floor specs. In any case, you can help control your stability by choosing the proper durometer rating in regards to your Bushings set-up. I use a higher duro rating Bushing at the base of the KP and a lower duro rated Bushing at the top. Depending on where I'm skating and what type of track, I'll go from a full barrel Bushing /Conical Bushing configuration, to a total full Barrel Bushing set-up (top and bottom) and I may even increase the Duro rating of the Bushings... it all depends, but it works, and it works well(for me at least). I currently race and I win races, period. My Avenger plate, with 45* KP (speaking from direct experience) is MORE responsive than my Reactors, and is extremely stable at Speed!...just as stable as the Reactor plates that I left for my Avenger plates. So Yogi, There's always a personal preference factor(and that's always OK), but considering the technicality of it all, I would reconsider the Avenger as a Speed plate. That's what it was made for. Don't get me wrong; there's many other good plates out there as well ![]()
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BONT QRC/ Swisher 'Super Elite' Avenger Mg/ Aussie Scott S.E./ Bones Swiss Ceramics I <3 Speed Skating & Derby ~ Swisher Sweet#143 (best Jammer EVER) |
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#8 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 5,719
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The mushrooming market for derby skates is more recent. IMO the Avenger is primarily a market driven design targeted specifically for derby. Quote:
The Avengers and other so called "DA45" plates all have 30 degree (measured from vertical) kingpins. The action angle (line about which trucks swing) is, however, very close to 45 degrees, and it is this angle, that affects a plates turning response the most anyway. Both angles do correlate and are somewhat married to each, but one value only affects the range of the other value, not the exact degree. Quote:
The plates that were actually design optimized for speed performance all reflect this reality by having steeper (0-15 degree) kingpins and shallower action angles (closer to horizontal 25-37 degrees) Quote:
However, with errors of weight placement when rolling on the more turn responsive DA45 plates, a GREATER amount of turn deviation from the desired track will result. As plate designs, like the DA45s, go steeper (more vertical) with their action angle geometry, they will always tend to become be more twitchy and less stable at speed. Good skills can still manage this inherent tendency of steep action plates, but they cannot make it disappear. Quote:
It seemed like I had started making better use of my hips and of body twisting and lateral weight shifting to more effectively lay power into my stroke. On top of that, my skating was a lot more fun. Then I started wondering whether I really was going faster on the steep action plates. I started clock testing my speed on a closed loop outdoor course with the both styles of plates. After many time trials, it became very clear that I was slower on the more turn responsive plates. I felt sure that the more turny plates were faster, but the clock don't lie, and for me at least they weren't. I still like to skate the 30 degree kingpin plates for sessions, but for speed skating I am back on true speed plates, Sliders, PowerTracs or Novas. -Armadillo
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Rollin' on AIR |
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#9 | |
I 'do' Swisher Sweet #143
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: North Los Angeles Quad Speed Skater www.SwisherSkate.com SWISHER Skating Products (coming soon)
Posts: 491
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By the way, I privately coach and train Derby players, and I'm very involved with my fiancee's team as a whole(most of you have heard me state this previously) and I 'tech' for her personally(and she's one of their most noted Jammers), and I've seen them ( the team) perform better (especially blockers/pivots) on a wider based plates (Like Artistic plates - i.e. SG Century plates, etc) with a lower degree KP (10*-17*) depending on the plate, and using a conical bushing set up with lower rated duro, than on plates like an Avenger or a Reactor or a Snyder. Just sayin. I think it all comes down to; more than anything, to the personal preference of each skater. And that's really where all the difference lies. IMO Much respect to ya 'dillo ![]() ![]()
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BONT QRC/ Swisher 'Super Elite' Avenger Mg/ Aussie Scott S.E./ Bones Swiss Ceramics I <3 Speed Skating & Derby ~ Swisher Sweet#143 (best Jammer EVER) |
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#10 | |
Ex-Pat Wiganer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,149
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![]() Sure-Grip actually say that the plate (Avenger) is aimed at "speed and derby" - so it isn't being marketed purely as a derby plate. I'm still not set on what plate I'm going to get myself as I do speed and session on my skates and don't really want to switch between skates during an evening (yes... I, and many others I know, speed skate on "ridiculous-looking" hard shell inline hockey boots - both converted to quads and not!) when I get my new boots. Sure-Grip PDF on the Avenger.
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Wigan Roller Rink, The place to be seen ![]() Now with added Daughter! |
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#11 | |
Locutus of QUORG!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,290
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We are the QUORG! You will be assimiskated. Skating Inlines is Futile! Colin Coakes, Wollongong, NSW, Australia |
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