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Old November 4th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #21
ursle
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If that's the way it's going to be so be it, it can be changed as needed

I think the ask doc forum should also be closed, pm doc a question and he can post it or not, his choice, that way NO one will make any posts in the WRONG forum causing dispute and uncertainty...
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Old November 4th, 2009, 02:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
If that's the way it's going to be so be it, it can be changed as needed

I think the ask doc forum should also be closed, pm doc a question and he can post it or not, his choice, that way NO one will make any posts in the WRONG forum causing dispute and uncertainty...
I disagree with closing Doc's Forum, I like ready and learning about all of the different skates, opinions, adjustments and knowledge that Doc shares.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 03:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
If that's the way it's going to be so be it, it can be changed as needed

I think the ask doc forum should also be closed, pm doc a question and he can post it or not, his choice, that way NO one will make any posts in the WRONG forum causing dispute and uncertainty...
I think that the Ask Doc forum is pretty self explanatory. If you don't happen to be Doc, don't post there unless you are the one asking the question.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #24
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I think that the Ask Doc forum is pretty self explanatory. If you don't happen to be Doc, don't post there unless you are the one asking the question.
+1
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Old November 4th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #25
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I'm thinking about making the advertising forum threads "one post only" and requiring that all discussions between buyers and sellers be done via private message or email. Sellers would be allowed to edit the body of their posts to change prices or add information and they could also edit their subject lines and mark items SOLD, but no one (including the seller) could reply to any of the "for sale" posts.
Makes sense to me.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
I'm thinking about making the advertising forum threads "one post only" and requiring that all discussions between buyers and sellers be done via private message or email. Sellers would be allowed to edit the body of their posts to change prices or add information and they could also edit their subject lines and mark items SOLD, but no one (including the seller) could reply to any of the "for sale" posts.

What do you think?

- Kathie
I think it may be better just to make the advertising threads automatically retire (automatically delete). This way decreases administration time and the number of posts in the thread would not be a factor in the overall database because the entire thread would retire. If the items that were posted to be sold do not sell, the thread originator can always re-post the thread after it has automatically retired. This way you get the thread originator to administer their own thread by checking it frequently to update it and/or re-post the items if necessary.

I think being able to post to a thread that has items to be sold in it is critical in terms of the forum application. I prefer to read the questions people have already asked and the answers to those questions, which keeps me from asking those questions again. It prevents multiple PM questions to the thread originator about the same thing...as viewers of the thread can read questions that have already been asked and can ask new questions that everyone viewing the thread can read. Limiting the thread to only one post will increase the number of PMs...multiple PMs asking the same question to the thread originator. Also, the database doesn't differentiate a PM post from a thread post except that data is placed in different tables...but the database doesn't delineate the data. So limiting the threads to one post doesn't save you anything in terms of database capacity...and you would have to compensate by increasing the number of PMs allowed in which case, in terms of database capacity, you may be doing more harm than good. I think the best way, or the most efficient way, is to allow the threads to function as is and have them automatically retire and explain to everyone posting items to be sold that their thread will automatically retire after _____ days. Also, there would be no need to maintain a specific number of pages of items to be sold because having them automatically retire, the number of pages of threads, would manage themselves.

The thread posters should also post the "SOLD" word in the name of the title of the thread once the items that were posted are sold. This is a courtesy that lets everyone know the item has sold without clicking the link.

My 2 cents...
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Old November 4th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #27
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I think that sounds like a good idea. Other forums that I am on function the same way. The post is active for 2 weeks then it is automatically deleted. I would think 2 weeks is plenty of time to sell most any item.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 05:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
I'd rather see discussions about the pros and cons of skates and bearings in our regular forums, not in the advertising forum, where threads are deleted when items are sold. As long as you are not buying, selling, or advertising, it's fine to compare skates and skating products in our regular forums. I wouldn't want to see those discussions start moving to the advertising forums.
I certainly hear what you're going for, but consider this: if there's no discussion about an item for sale in it's own thread, items for sale will end up being discussed in the open forum. And while there are lkely to be some good discussions regarding what's good or not about that item, fact is it ends up moving sales talk out of the sales forums. It's just human nature.

If it matters, none of that bothers me. Nor do thread bumps. If it's an item I'm not interested in, I ignore that thread anyway. Forum members are generally pretty good about following posted guidelines and policing each other. I'd rather see some basic and simple guidelines published and give forum members a chance to adhere to those before just lowering the boom.

A lot of the problem, frankly, comes from new members who haven't been here long enough to get the lay of the land. Much of the noise floor in the sales threads lately has revolved around new members who don't know the rules and didn't bother to look. That generates a lot of negative feedback from members who have. There is a deep feeling of community here and new members have a tendency, whether intentional or not, to infringe on that, and that gets others stirred up and, well, you know too well.

I'm not sure what the answer is, exactly but it would be nice if there had to be some level of investment in this community on the part of new members before being able to fully realize the benefits of that membership. Not sure what the forum software allows you, but perhaps a system requirement that members read certain stickys before being able to post in certain forums. Maybe a time requirement where a new member has to be a verified member for x time before posting privileges are enabled in certain areas. I hate to get into the whole "minimum post count" thing because that's just as apt to generate a lot of noise as well with people artificially inflating their post counts. This is a situation where for every 100 new members who join and become valuable and active participants, there's one who just comes along and wee-wees in everybody's Corn Flakes and we end up stuck with shotgun policies. I've seen it more times than I can count.

I think Edward is on to something with posts that automatically delete after a certain time. That keeps the clutter managed without a lot of hassle for Jessica or you. Once a post deletes, the OP can relist and go again if his item is not sold. It could well be that the item comes back at a different price or with options, and everyone benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
My suggestion: Before anybody buys anything in the advertising forum, they should search the entire SkateLog Forum for discussions and opinions about that product. You can either use the built-in vBulletin Search Engine or the Google SkateLog Forum Search. We have discussions in our forum about nearly every skating product ever made.

- Kathie
Very true, and with rare exception, it never happens that way. Why? Path of least resistance. It's just too easy to start a new post and ask it again. It either gets answered again or someone else does the work and digs up the old thread. Human nature again.

Thanks for all you do and all you endure to do it.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MFND View Post
I think that the Ask Doc forum is pretty self explanatory. If you don't happen to be Doc, don't post there unless you are the one asking the question.
He's pretty good at managing traffic there and rebuffing it when it isn't welcome. So much of the information in that forum would just get buried in the clutter of the other forums if it were not segregated into its own space, and there's just too much good information there for that to happen.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 08:45 PM   #30
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I have to express that I have learned much from many of the back and forth discussions. While sometimes off topic there are very often bits of information about items for sale that are very good to learn and came out in a reply where as I doubt there would be a post somewhere on the difference between whips or wips, will a 190 work for this or that set up, dubz vs white shamans, etc...

I am sure each item could be reviewed somewhere but the info that is trigered by a post for sale is quick and nice to see. Definitely posts should auto delete after a couple weeks.

Thanks,
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Old November 5th, 2009, 02:06 AM   #31
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I don't care if there is a 50 post to sale rule or not. Just so it's the same for everyone, whatever is decided. But what rule infractions gets one persons post deleted, should get the rest of them doing it deleted too, regardless of how long you have been a member, or how many posts you have. I could see where trying to sort through all this mess and trying to be fair to all could be a real nightmare to administrate though. You could always put forum rules out there on the email when they get their account validated, if you don't already. You probably do that, I don't remember.

I like reading some of the chitchat that goes on in the sales listings too, but I can see where the only way you can be sure it's not being done to bump the item is to not allow replies there at all.

Maybe people that want to sale multiple items could go in the skate shop listings but stay indefinately in their one thread, and have individual listings retire in a couple weeks, and you get to list in one or the other but not both. That way, regular skaters with their one item aren't always competing with the shops and people who constantly buying and resaleing stuff. I don't know, just some ideas.

We do appreciate what you admins do to keep the lights on here! I bet you hear at least 3 complaints to every thank you.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 02:28 AM   #32
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Default I see more good than bad in For Sale allowing replies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh Eddie Fresh View Post
I sort of like some of the discussion that goes with some of those threads... it is sometimes helpful when someone chimes in and says, "those were mine," or "those sometimes have bent axles," etc.

I don't think I would have tried NMB bearings if it weren't for discussion in the for sale section, but everyone seemed to say nice things about them, and now I have a bunch of sets!

Just my two pennies....
+1 on that point.
I learn a lot about older & no longer in production items from the For Sale threads. Even comparisons with other purchase options, or price evaluations & opinions. Often people offer positive info that the seller did not even know or post about the product they are selling.
Suppose someone wants a Laser Slider up for sale but wrong size steel bar. If I have come spare bars for sale and could reply, this helps everyone get what they want with least effort.

If there were no replies, I doubt I would visit this area much in the future.

-Armadillo
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Old November 5th, 2009, 04:15 AM   #33
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I am sure that one or even a few of us would be willing to step up and mod the B/S/T forum if it would help take some of the work load off of you two.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 04:46 PM   #34
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Is it possible to have the threads sorted by original post date and not sorted on reply date for the sale/wants section? This would stop bumping and still allow discussion, then auto delete after 30 days to reduce maintenance.

Personnally, I'd be very leary of buying from a no-reply setup. The other forums would be cluttered with "can I trust John Doe to deliver?" posts and you just shift the fake reply and other issues there.

Thanks for the hard work. I've been enjoying the forums and have already purchased equipment posted for sale.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old November 6th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #35
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I just cut down on the number of for-sale subforums by combining quad skates with quad plates and combining inline skates/frames/wheels. There were very few posts in some of those subforums, so it made sense to combine them. We still do need a separate forum for quad wheels though, because that subforum is our most active

I also made another change... items in each subforum are now ordered by thread creation date, not by post date, so hopefully the bumping wars are a thing of the past.

As long as the buyers and sellers are not insulting each other in these forums, I'm fine with continuing to allow replies for now. But serious disputes between buyers and sellers need to be taken offline.

- Kathie

Last edited by Kathie Fry; November 9th, 2009 at 02:36 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:11 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
I also made another change... items in each subforum are now ordered by thread creation date, not by post date, so hopefully the bumping wars are a thing of the past.
- Kathie


:-) thats perfect
thx kathie!
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Old November 6th, 2009, 02:28 AM   #37
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Thank you kathie!!
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Old November 6th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #38
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just so everyone knows and if they like it better that way if you press the last post colum up top it will put them in the order they use to be in... you have to do it every time you go into a sub forum but i like it better thay way because all the threads that have been posted in are in order and i like to see what people are saying
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Old November 8th, 2009, 02:12 AM   #39
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Kathie, first off thank you for letting me be a small part of this site. I appreciate the fact that something like this exists.

Being new to this, I actually like the comments others make related to an item listed for sale. I have lost the last 20 years of product knowledge, but I am in awe of the others on this site who have the knowledge I am searching for.

I can see where someone who is well established in the skating world may get frustrated by comments, but those of us who are new really apprecaite the comments - good and bad. We use those comments to make purchasing decisions which adds to our enjoyment of the sport.

Again, thank you and either way I will be a fan of the site.



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Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
I'm thinking about making the advertising forum threads "one post only" and requiring that all discussions between buyers and sellers be done via private message or email. Sellers would be allowed to edit the body of their posts to change prices or add information and they could also edit their subject lines and mark items SOLD, but no one (including the seller) could reply to any of the "for sale" posts.

What do you think?

- Kathie
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