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Old June 17th, 2017, 12:15 AM   #1
galacticat
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Question Stuck hardware - locknut, kingpin

Hi all!

I am a n00b and my skates are not new but they are now my skates. High-boot Dominion boots with original Marathon plates, standard kingpins.

I have been trying to spruce them up for my own use and thereby learn about my undercarriage. To that end, I acquired new bushings as the old ones do not look proper, they look old and cracked and they are probably not good anymore.

Lo and behold, the hardware is firmly attached to the plate. It moves not. I'm actually concerned about breaking something, maybe the wrench, maybe my hand.

I have had Liquid Wrench recommended to me, but I thought I would also ask this skate-specific hivemind.

P.S. Dear Mods, if this is the wrong forum please feel free to delete or move as appropriate, thank you.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 03:48 AM   #2
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So, can we get a little more detail?? I'm familiar w/ your plates. Have you managed to loosen the lock nut between the cushion and the plate?? Pix will help too.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 07:23 PM   #3
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Hey, thanks for hearing my pleas!

The lock nut will not move. i can move nothing in the kingpin set up. All is in stasis. I had only the most minor problems with the axles and toe-stop screws but I suspect that whoever in the Long Long Ago last tightened these pins, they were made too tight then and now with age the problem has compounded. I will attempt to take pics. Please stand by.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 08:25 PM   #4
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Pics are coming albeit slowly. If I use WD40 on it will I be cursed by the skate deities? Will my name become a swear on your lips?

What I'm asking is, is it safe?
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Old June 17th, 2017, 08:50 PM   #5
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Since it was not stated explicitly by Doc: You want to try to loosen the nut first. Then unscrew the kingpin.

You can try WD40. Just clean it up before putting the skates back together. You really don't want it, or any oil, on your wheels. There are other penetrating nut-removal liquids that some people use. Try industrial supply stores or the auto-parts store if you want to go that route.

FYI: WD40 is not a good lubricant for bearings.

Another trick I use is to tap the bolt of nearby location while un-tightening. You have to be very careful doing this with skate plates since you can mark the plate easily.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 09:22 PM   #6
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Penetrating solvent... I use Kano Lab's Kroil. Other folks prefer other things. Rumor has it a 50/50 blend of ATF and acetone is the best thing going. I will most likely never find out. I think my Kroil will last longer than I will.

You may want to remove the plates from your boots and apply the penetrating solvent to the back side of the king pin holes. With the plates removed, it is possible to screw them to a piece of 2X4 with deck screws and then put the wood in your vise. (Find a friend that has one if you do not. I have used this technique to pull stubborn king pins in the past and it works very well.. The boot will not provide an adequate work surface to accomplish what you need to do if the are really stuck.

Once you get them apart you can certainly upgrade some of the components. Just be wary, Marathon plates (and parts most likely) are no longer available in the US.... Maybe they still are in Canada??
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Last edited by Doc Sk8; June 17th, 2017 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Wasn't bold enough!!
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Old June 17th, 2017, 10:26 PM   #7
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Smile

Thank you for the very useful advice. I do not see any way I can personally take the plates off so if it gets to that I'll have to take them to a shop or person.

Yes, I am taking the 'no WD40 on bearings' very seriously so thank you for reaffirming that. Should I just take the wheels off while I do this stuff?

I have been trying to loosen the locknuts as per maintenance instructions but they don't want to move, hence my requests for loosening agents that are safe for skates. I really appreciate the info. I will try a little bit of WD40 and see if that works then get progressively crazier I imagine.

If necessary I can indeed get replacement Dominion parts up here in Canuckistan - www.rollerskatin.ca carries trucks, bushings [cushions], cups and pins.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:20 AM   #8
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Default Counter intuitive advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galacticat View Post
Thank you for the very useful advice. I do not see any way I can personally take the plates off so if it gets to that I'll have to take them to a shop or person.

Yes, I am taking the 'no WD40 on bearings' very seriously so thank you for reaffirming that. Should I just take the wheels off while I do this stuff?

I have been trying to loosen the locknuts as per maintenance instructions but they don't want to move, hence my requests for loosening agents that are safe for skates. I really appreciate the info. I will try a little bit of WD40 and see if that works then get progressively crazier I imagine.

If necessary I can indeed get replacement Dominion parts up here in Canuckistan - www.rollerskatin.ca carries trucks, bushings [cushions], cups and pins.
Try turning the lock nut clockwise, if possible. I've often been successful removing stuck fasteners my doing so. Just a fraction of movement will often break a fitting loose.

And to address the issue of a 50/50 mix of transmission fluid mixed with acetone - works extremely well. Just look at some of the youtube videos comparing the home made stuff with the major brands of penetrating fluid. Just remember, it is not a lubricant.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 03:26 AM   #9
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I honest to goodness think I just warped my wrench. Will continue letting stuff soak in I guess, get more tools tomorrow.

I will keep the clockwise nudge in mind for the morrow too, thank you.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 11:01 PM   #10
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Just take the wheels off (you can't do any serious work with them on) and use a proper wrench.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:05 AM   #11
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Relax, take a picture, post it, WD40 won't penetrate 30 year old rust, the parts are metal, they will assimilate
A picture may show something that sticks out to others that have been adept with metal, relax, if something is frozen and requires 180' pounds of torque to loosen, well, you've opened a dialogue, an easy solution is forthcoming.
Include the wrench in the picture.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:06 AM   #12
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Default Wrenches

You may have to go to a shop and get some thin wrenches to have enough force to break the locknut loose. I had to go to a couple of pawn shops befoe I found a thin wrench that fit and was a name brand. If you use typical skate wrenches your wrench may fail before the nut will break loose. Some of the old nuts are on very tight.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #13
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Liquid Wrench acquired. Wheels coming off. I know you guys want pics but til I have re-registered or remembered my old photobucket password you'll have to wait i'm afraid, but I can tell you that the bushings appear to be under some great pressure due to the manner of their warping and i have grave doubts as to my or anyone's ability to remove the hardware as is (but I am not giving up and do plan to post pics). A small amount was applied to the skates a few hours ago but i plan to add a bit more now.

The wrench in question was a skate-specific 'elephant tool' that I imagine is ordinarily fine for regular skates but not designed for moving stuck hardware as it is relatively thin material.

I am glad of everyone's suggestions, I really am.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 03:54 PM   #14
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For pics just use imgur
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:26 PM   #15
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got one skate photographed. if you'd like to see the other i'll do it up but they appear to be identically over-tightened.

Note: wheels have since been removed (if anyone wants to know, they're Sonar Zens with Mini-Logo bearings.

Right skate front pin/cushions:


Right skate rear pin/cushions:


If you need different angles or you'd like to see the other skate let me know and I'll make more pics.

Yes the wheels are off now.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 10:45 PM   #16
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The nut between the plate and the top cushion needs to be held in place. Apply clockwise force to it while you rotate the kingpin head counter clockwise to loosen it. In your picture it appears to be a hex head. All you need is two wrenches, or a wrench and socket, etc..

If I'm wrong, the sperts will let us know.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk84luv View Post
The nut between the plate and the top cushion needs to be held in place. Apply clockwise force to it while you rotate the kingpin head counter clockwise to loosen it. In your picture it appears to be a hex head. All you need is two wrenches, or a wrench and socket, etc..

If I'm wrong, the sperts will let us know.
The top of the king pin bolt Is locked in place by the lock nut, the lock nut is the one on the bottom, it needs to be broken free, simply a torque move, don't try to turn the top nut until the locking nut is unlocked, your trucks are not rusted in place, just locked by grease or oil, the king pin is the adjusting nut, or to be precise, bolt, the lock nut locks The KP where you want it to stay, after installing new urethane cushions, tighten the kP bolt until the cushions "just" turn in your fingers, they won't bind or slap around, and you will have maximum action from the truck.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 12:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galacticat View Post
got one skate photographed. if you'd like to see the other i'll do it up but they appear to be identically over-tightened.

Note: wheels have since been removed (if anyone wants to know, they're Sonar Zens with Mini-Logo bearings.

Right skate front pin/cushions:


Right skate rear pin/cushions:


If you need different angles or you'd like to see the other skate let me know and I'll make more pics.

Yes the wheels are off now.
You just need a bigger tougher wrench. Some people torque these nuts down hard and never adjust them again.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 02:25 AM   #19
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yep. Bigger, tougher wrench is in process. Will notify.

Awesome tip on retightening with the turning cushions, thanks!

Thank you everyone for your help.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 12:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk84luv View Post
The nut between the plate and the top cushion needs to be held in place. Apply clockwise force to it while you rotate the kingpin head counter clockwise to loosen it. In your picture it appears to be a hex head. All you need is two wrenches, or a wrench and socket, etc..

If I'm wrong, the sperts will let us know.
Yeah, you have it backwards. First step is to turn the jam nut counter clockwise. Quarter of a turn or so is all it takes.

To adjust the kingpin to put more or less pressure on the cushions, then you hold the jam nut still and turn the kingpin.

To tighten, hold the kingpin still and turn the jam nut clockwise to snug it down.

Righty-tighty, lefty-loosey.
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