S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice)
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 21st, 2016, 10:52 AM   #1
EoinCuinn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
Default Roll-line variant M pivot pin adjustment

I've read every thread I could find regarding this adjustment, and I think I have it right, but there is a slight issue I am having adjusting my pivot pins.

I can't rock the truck in enough to tell if it's in right, and try as I might, I can't really ascertain when it goes in properly. The closest I can tell is when there is no lateral play at the end of the pivot.

These are brand new skates with an edea boot on them, and I am going out with them on Friday night to get used to them, so I'll be tweaking the action well before I jump on them or anything. I've read there is generally a specific noise to listen out for when tapping the skates, and I'm pretty sure I heard that yesterday when I tried them out for the first time, the pins were a long way out, but now I can't tell the difference between the wheels hitting the floor, or that noise of the pins being wrong.

Am I likely to cause damage listening for this noise, and adjusting to suit, before I do any serious movement on the skates, jumping etc?
EoinCuinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2016, 02:33 PM   #2
Doc Sk8
Yankee Catfish
 
Doc Sk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Big hill on Mars
Posts: 11,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EoinCuinn View Post
I've read every thread I could find regarding this adjustment, and I think I have it right, but there is a slight issue I am having adjusting my pivot pins.

I'll do my best to help.

I can't rock the truck in enough to tell if it's in right, and try as I might, I can't really ascertain when it goes in properly. The closest I can tell is when there is no lateral play at the end of the pivot.

That is an indication you have the pivot adjusted properly or too tight / too long. I would suggest you back the pivot off until you do feel the gap when you push down on the truck. What color cushions are on your plates?? The stiffer the cushion the harder it is to make this adjustment. Where is you action set?? How many clicks in??

These are brand new skates with an edea boot on them, and I am going out with them on Friday night to get used to them, so I'll be tweaking the action well before I jump on them or anything. I've read there is generally a specific noise to listen out for when tapping the skates, and I'm pretty sure I heard that yesterday when I tried them out for the first time, the pins were a long way out, but now I can't tell the difference between the wheels hitting the floor, or that noise of the pins being wrong.

The "click" is not so easy to hear on a Roll Line due to the nylon pivot cup. That is much more easily heard on a Snyder that has a metal to metal joint.

Am I likely to cause damage listening for this noise, and adjusting to suit, before I do any serious movement on the skates, jumping etc?
I don't think so, but if the pivots are really far out, they are most likely too long.

You can also set them by eye / feel but that takes some practice as well. This is done by backing the pivots off and then closely watching the front of the truck. When you see it start to move up, away from the plate, that is too long. You can feel this movement with your hand as well if you pay attention. Once you see / feel it, back it off until it just stops moving and you will be spot on.

Once you have made this adjustment a few time (Yeah.... practice it, you won't wear anything out) you should be able to feel it in the wrench when the ball touches down. It will start to get slightly harder to turn as the ball seats and starts to lift the truck away from the plate.

I know, it is all finicky... But once you have it sorted you will have you suspension down pat.

The good news is, if you get it right, and don't monkey with the action, you should not need to do it again. I sk8ed a Giotto for several years and never adjusted it again, once I was set up.

Good luck if you still have issues let me know.
__________________
If you are willing to compromise on results, by all means, compromise on equipment. If you think you can get by, you most likely will...Just get by.
Doc Sk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2016, 10:41 PM   #3
EoinCuinn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
Default

Thanks for the reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
What color cushions are on your plates?? The stiffer the cushion the harder it is to make this adjustment. Where is you action set?? How many clicks in??
They have the yellow rubber cushions in them. The actions aren't click actions, they are showing 1 thread. I am fairly certain I am going to run out of adjustment on Friday when I take them out for a spin, and I've already ordered softer urethanes (grey). I was already suspicious it was the firmness of these cushions making it hard to feel the adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post

Once you have made this adjustment a few times (Yeah.... practice it, you won't wear anything out) you should be able to feel it in the wrench when the ball touches down. It will start to get slightly harder to turn as the ball seats and starts to lift the truck away from the plate.
I'm glad I read somewhere these were hard to get undone the first time, I don't know who does them up at the roll-line factory, but I'm not arm wrestling with them anytime soon! I played around with them for another hour this morning, as they are loosening up a bit, I think I am starting to feel where that point is. You can feel it get a bit harder, and then you can literally see the truck start tilting. Pretty cool to watch actually.

These are the best things I've ever owned, before this I had a pair of crazy's which I destroyed in a couple of months, so it's been a huge learning curve reading up on just how adjustable a good pair of skates can be, but with that adjustment comes slight trepidation on getting it wrong!
EoinCuinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2016, 02:11 PM   #4
Doc Sk8
Yankee Catfish
 
Doc Sk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Big hill on Mars
Posts: 11,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EoinCuinn View Post
Thanks for the reply!

You are most welcome.

They have the yellow rubber cushions in them.

I have found those to about the same as the mid range blue urethane as far as durometer goes. Response is different however.

The actions aren't click actions, they are showing 1 thread.

Variant?? Or Blaster??

I am fairly certain I am going to run out of adjustment on Friday when I take them out for a spin, and I've already ordered softer urethanes (grey). I was already suspicious it was the firmness of these cushions making it hard to feel the adjustment.

Good move. Those things are so darn expensive though.

I'm glad I read somewhere these were hard to get undone the first time, I don't know who does them up at the roll-line factory, but I'm not arm wrestling with them anytime soon!

I'd be willing to wager there are pneumatic tools involved, to speed up production. I don't use the Roll Line wrench to break the pivot lock nut the first time. After that the supplied wrench seems to be fine.

I played around with them for another hour this morning, as they are loosening up a bit, I think I am starting to feel where that point is. You can feel it get a bit harder, and then you can literally see the truck start tilting. Pretty cool to watch actually.

Understanding the machinery you roll is very beneficial, I think. Actually doing the adjustments yourself is the way to go. I have never understood the jump on the an roll mentality. Even most inexpensive sk8s have an action adjustment. It reminds me the of the joke about the farmer & the chain saw when I show someone how to adjust their sk8s.

These are the best things I've ever owned, before this I had a pair of crazy's which I destroyed in a couple of months,

Which Crazys and how did they fail?? I have seen a couple of broken Apollos but never any serious Venus failures.

so it's been a huge learning curve reading up on just how adjustable a good pair of skates can be, but with that adjustment comes slight trepidation on getting it wrong!
Now that you have done it, adjusting them is not as scary, is it?? One of the things I teach the local derby league is go ahead and play with them. You won't know what they can do unless you give them a chance.
__________________
If you are willing to compromise on results, by all means, compromise on equipment. If you think you can get by, you most likely will...Just get by.
Doc Sk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2016, 10:50 PM   #5
EoinCuinn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Now that you have done it, adjusting them is not as scary, is it?? One of the things I teach the local derby league is go ahead and play with them. You won't know what they can do unless you give them a chance.
Not scary at all. Well except for thinking I was going to break them getting that locknut undone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
I have found those to about the same as the mid range blue urethane as far as durometer goes. Response is different however.
Better rebound? I'm 74kg, so about 163 pounds, so I'm thinking the greys. Most of the competitors at our rink are on these plates and boots, so I am going to pick some brains this weekend on who is on what, we have some other 6ft blokes on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Variant?? Or Blaster??
Variant M

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Which Crazys and how did they fail?? I have seen a couple of broken Apollos but never any serious Venus failures.
They were the Crazy Arts, 2015. They were on an Apollo plate. It was the boot that failed, completely parted company with the plate. Returned for 100% refund, and then some serious exploration happened for something at a considerably higher price point, but something that I would be far more comfortable in, and would last me a lot longer. Definitely an example of you get what you pay for.
EoinCuinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2016, 10:11 AM   #6
EoinCuinn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
Default

So after a massive run at the rink today with our coach, I'm going to start with clear blues top and bottom, then move to greys bottom, and eventually greys top. She had a look at all of my adjustments, and they were spot on, so happy days.

Thank you for the assistance, greatly appreciated
EoinCuinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2016, 03:43 AM   #7
JorisKB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 213
Default

Doc, you never saw failures on Venus ?
A friend of mine ruined 3 or 4 of those poor things. This is the last one, before he moved on Blasters.
https://www.facebook.com/joriskb/pos...53785853368962


And he has a nice set of bended crazy steel kingpins too.
( oh, yes, these are purple khyros. He likes them hard )
__________________
Passage des Etoiles, Roller Derby shop and café in Paris, France.
www.passagedesetoiles.com
JorisKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2016, 06:16 PM   #8
Doc Sk8
Yankee Catfish
 
Doc Sk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Big hill on Mars
Posts: 11,983
Default Always a first time for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisKB View Post
Doc, you never saw failures on Venus ?
A friend of mine ruined 3 or 4 of those poor things. This is the last one, before he moved on Blasters.
https://www.facebook.com/joriskb/pos...53785853368962

And he has a nice set of bended crazy steel kingpins too.
( oh, yes, these are purple khyros. He likes them hard )
Well, I never said it was impossible. On the other hand, I have seen more expensive plates break doing Derby.

Now, what contributes to all the bendy breaky crap?? Hard cushions sure do not help. The are happy to transmit lots of force to the plates. It's why I advocate softer cushions... that and I don't much like my sk8s holding me upright, or not steering where I want them to go without spraining an ankle.
__________________
If you are willing to compromise on results, by all means, compromise on equipment. If you think you can get by, you most likely will...Just get by.
Doc Sk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2016, 07:13 PM   #9
JorisKB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 213
Default

Well, that Guy is a inline skate cross champion, he is used to lift his feet and have hard response. He is now happily riding roll line yellow thane on his blasters. So far so good.
IMO the skates have to fit the skater, not the other way around.
These Venus were abused, but their design is not good for big sizes. They should have add alloy in the center like on the mistral and energy for more support when reaching 160 or 170 wheelbase.
__________________
Passage des Etoiles, Roller Derby shop and café in Paris, France.
www.passagedesetoiles.com
JorisKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #10
HeBeGB
Member
 
HeBeGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BrisVegas, Australia
Posts: 96
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisKB View Post
These Venus were abused, but their design is not good for big sizes. They should have add alloy in the center like on the mistral and energy for more support when reaching 160 or 170 wheelbase.
Gotta agree here, 160mm and up on the Venus plates should have a design change on the cutout. I have seen a number of failures at these sizes (Bending and breaking of the thin bit of alloy between the slot and the boot)
__________________
I'm not fast, but I make other people faster
HeBeGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2017, 08:29 AM   #11
EoinCuinn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
Default

As an update on where this thread started, to where I ended up.

After lots of adjustments, experiments, a new set of adjustment nuts (wore the nyloc out haha) I have ended up on clear uppers, blue lowers, with the adjustment nut wound all the way out until it hits the locking hex nut.

The main instigator was the fact I was struggling to hold my backwards edges doing figures, no matter what I did. We've also started jumping and turning, and I was having issues landing and maintaining an edge. Our main coach and I had a chat about it one day, I was on clear blue uppers and lowers, and she recommended just swapping the uppers to clear. It made a pretty large different, especially when I combined that with loosening them all way out.

I'm currently saving up for an upgraded plate
EoinCuinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.