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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old September 18th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #1
newellcr
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Default Packaged outdoor skates

Hello Folks,

I'm new to the forums but have been kicking around the archives for about a week. I made my first post in the intro section, http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...p?t=81&page=51. Hopefully the link works.

I spent a lot of time digging in the archives and there are some great posts in the new outdoor quad section. I have a question about purchasing outdoor quads. The outdoor quad setups seem to be indoor quad boots and plates that have outdoor wheels on them. I understand the concept of moving the plate forward or mounting a larger plate on the boot so that more weight is behind the front wheel.

My question, what manufacturers (and model numbers, please) make outdoor skates with the 'proper' plate placement?

Here is more info about me and my potential skating areas.

I cracked over 200 lbs recently. This gets carried by size 8's. The neighborhood is flat and has concrete sidewalks and concrete streets that are in very good shape and don't have heavy traffic. I have access to asphalt trails and school parking lots. I like the low cut boots. Having my ankles locked in the inline boots was something I always disliked. I'd like to keep the purchase under $200, if possible.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris
riding silver and black Labeda G80's indoors
Sterling Heights, MI
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Old September 19th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #2
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Default Here is my only "off-the-shelf" suggestion

If you are not willing to assemble your own skate, there are few off-the-shelf choices out there. This is the only one I know of.

This skate looks strange, but is actually rather strong and well engineered for outdoor skating, since the front axle can be adjusted through a 1" range.
It also has Twister wheels - the best wheels I have ever skated outdoors. They are a Hi/Lo (70mm/65mm) scheme though, and it rolls better with the 70mm up front (not the 65mm as they build it).
With front axle in full forward position the "traction control" bar may need to be removed, as it only lines up right in one of the many possible front axle positions, but it really doesn't do much anyway.
The proprietary toe stop sucks and has to be filed a bit if the 70mm wheels are in front, but since they don't work well outside anyway, I would scrap them in favor of a clamp-on heel brake (2nd PIC), as seen in this Aerial high top version of the same skate.
The trucks are aluminum and axles are 8mm solid with ends tapped for button head wheel retainer screw.

On sale online here:
http://www.skates.com/roller-derby-q...es-p/u-347.htm





-Armadillo
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Last edited by Armadillo; September 19th, 2009 at 04:19 AM. Reason: spell
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Old September 19th, 2009, 12:44 AM   #3
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since the front axle can be adjusted through a 1" range.
I've been meaning to ask you about that. What is adjustable? Is it the kingpin angle? The truck height? I'm not sure I get it.

Also, it will not take a normal toe stop?
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Old September 19th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #4
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I've been meaning to ask you about that. What is adjustable? Is it the kingpin angle? The truck height? I'm not sure I get it.

Also, it will not take a normal toe stop?
The entire front hanger is re-positionable. Notice the "teeth" at the bottom of "plate"? These are serrated grooves that run left-right across the ball of foot.
Above these serrations is a slot with a flat "slot nut" captured inside.
Behind the urethane-kingpin the hanger has a single screw that engages the slot nut.
There are mating serrations on the top of the truck hanger. After loosening the adjustment screw a few turns the serrations separate enough to slide hanger to front or rear & then you re-tighten screw until serrations re-engage.. Travel is limited to about 1", and the hokey "traction control" bar is NOT adjustable, so it only lines up at a single position - which depends on what size you buy too. It could fit in the full forward for outdoor or full rear for indoor. Where it fits is a crap shoot. the size 11W/10M bar fits with full forward, which was good for me, but size 10W/9M bar worked only with hanger near all the way back. It skates fine without the bar anyway.

As for the toe stop, notice how close it is to the inside edges of the front wheels? It is sculpted to have clearance from wheels rubbing. It is so close that just swapping the 70mm wheels to the front demands more rubber be removed.

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Old September 19th, 2009, 02:48 AM   #5
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Armadillo,

Thanks for the reply. $60 skates and an $18 heel stop (sure grip back break http://www.skates.com/Roller-Skate-T...s-s/244489.htm), thatís a fairly low risk adventure. Iíve seen pictures of the grey and white boot in the forum before. Is it available too? I like the shoe style, but figured that Iíd ask.

Great description on the plate sub assemblies. I have a pretty clear idea of whatís going on.

Kind Regards,

Chris
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Old September 19th, 2009, 03:56 AM   #6
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Default Not sure on other colors for the boot - you can dye it though

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Armadillo,

Thanks for the reply. $60 skates and an $18 heel stop (sure grip back break http://www.skates.com/Roller-Skate-T...s-s/244489.htm), that’s a fairly low risk adventure. I’ve seen pictures of the grey and white boot in the forum before. Is it available too? I like the shoe style, but figured that I’d ask.

Great description on the plate sub assemblies. I have a pretty clear idea of what’s going on.

Kind Regards,

Chris
Any other color may be a different model skate from the Alpha1.
BTW, the boot is RIVETED to the plate and the zone of contact is fully contoured, not flat. Plus there is at least 3/4" heel elevation.

One BIG concern is that the SINGLE screw holding the front truck hanger onto the skate. You really do not want this screw to be coming loose while you are skating.
I am not so sure how well this scheme can handle all the shock and vibration without it gradually working loose. I would be checking that screw EVERY TIME I skate!

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Last edited by Armadillo; September 19th, 2009 at 04:02 AM. Reason: added thought
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Old September 20th, 2009, 11:32 PM   #7
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Armadillo,

Thanks for the reply.

Chris
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Old September 25th, 2009, 02:56 AM   #8
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Hey Armadillo,

The alphas are coming next week. I want to ride them at the rink before I introduce them to sweet smooth, concrete in the neighborhood. Then I'll introduce them to the acorns. I need some indoor skating reference points wrt wheel hardness, front truck placement, etc. These will help.

Just some comments. I looked around and your link had the best price that I found. But, oddly enough, when I ordered the back brake, the shipping went way up. Rather than opening the corner of the skate box and tossing in the brake, the brake was shipped by a different carrier, obviously separately. I did search and found a coupon link that saved me 15% on the skate. The store facebook homepage had an outdated coupon. Again, just comments, not complaints. I await the skates with baited breath.

I found a posting by you under another thread about 'how fast do you skate outdoors'.

"Interesting observation. This confirms my theory of training - that the WARM-UP lasts until you start to feel tired, and the workout is when your primary muscle groups (that get over used) start to be pooped out.
This is when you start to better coordinate your secondary muscle groups into more balanced & efficient integration of effort with your primaries. Often your style improves and seems more relaxed too, and because the overall muscle recruitment is better, you feel like you get a second wind. "

Oh, yes. I've noticed this several times. I'd add that my right lower leg would cramp on the outside, halfway down from knee to heel - from this point to the ankle. It was during the workout before the primary muscle groups got pooped. As far as I can tell, this was from the turning left crossovers in addition to the scissors workout from the enjoying the funk of the music... Ouch!!! I found how to stretch this after the fact, and tried to stretch the same muscle group prior to skating several times but have the problem frequently. I skate thru it, sometimes with several brief stops, and it fades, but I'd like to figure out how to avoid the cramp altogether.

Thanks for your informative posts.

Kind Regards,

Chris
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Old September 25th, 2009, 05:33 AM   #9
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Default Wheel Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by newellcr View Post
Hey Armadillo,

The alphas are coming next week. I want to ride them at the rink before I introduce them to sweet smooth, concrete in the neighborhood. Then I'll introduce them to the acorns. I need some indoor skating reference points wrt wheel hardness, front truck placement, etc. These will help.

Thanks for your informative posts.
Kind Regards,

Chris
Your welcome, glad if I can help. Thanks for confirmation of my training theory.

As to the wheels TWISTERS are firm enough to skate OK indoors, but you will need to work a bit more to hold some speed. If you shift the front axle back under the ball of your foot, you may want to leave the 70mm wheels at the rear too, as this will let you lean back more and reduce the chances of front wheel squish/bog effect that soft wheels often give when too much weight goes onto the front ones.

Hope they work well and you enjoy them BOTH Indoors & Outdoors.

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Old September 25th, 2009, 03:30 PM   #10
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Hope they work well and you enjoy them BOTH Indoors & Outdoors.

Armadillo
Armadillo,

The rink I skated at as a kid had a policy against outdoor skates. They wouldn't allow any skate that was skated outdoors to come in the rink. They said outdoor skates would bring grit onto the floor. They would check the wheels on the way in and they were serious about it.

My thought was to skate a couple times indoors and then take them outside. I guess that I'll have to ask at the rink if outdoor skates are ok.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old September 26th, 2009, 03:03 AM   #11
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Default They ARE indoor wheels until you've skated the wheels outdoors

Chris,
Why bother asking if you haven't skated the wheels outdoors yet?

It's not the SKATES that are the issue - it's the wheels.

You really should look at having two sets of wheels anyway, but with the Twisters being black, they are not going to show much of their outdoor history.

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Old September 26th, 2009, 04:29 AM   #12
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Hello Armadillo,

Because I may not wait to skate them indoors first

I have a pair of Labeda G80's that I ride at the rink, occasionally I might want to bring the Alphas inside too. So, I'll ask.

I'll let you know how I make out with the Alphas.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old September 26th, 2009, 04:50 AM   #13
Skateguy
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
If you are not willing to assemble your own skate, there are few off-the-shelf choices out there. This is the only one I know of.

This skate looks strange, but is actually rather strong and well engineered for outdoor skating, since the front axle can be adjusted through a 1" range.
It also has Twister wheels - the best wheels I have ever skated outdoors. They are a Hi/Lo (70mm/65mm) scheme though, and it rolls better with the 70mm up front (not the 65mm as they build it).
With front axle in full forward position the "traction control" bar may need to be removed, as it only lines up right in one of the many possible front axle positions, but it really doesn't do much anyway.
The proprietary toe stop sucks and has to be filed a bit if the 70mm wheels are in front, but since they don't work well outside anyway, I would scrap them in favor of a clamp-on heel brake (2nd PIC), as seen in this Aerial high top version of the same skate.
The trucks are aluminum and axles are 8mm solid with ends tapped for button head wheel retainer screw.

On sale online here:
http://www.skates.com/roller-derby-q...es-p/u-347.htm





-Armadillo
OK, come clean. admit it. You just love those polymers don't ya??? I have to admit, at first glance I was impressed by these skates. but I have to be honest, not so much after I looked at all the pros and cons a little more carefully. But hey, that's just me. and I sure don't know it all. I just play a guy who does.
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Old September 26th, 2009, 06:29 AM   #14
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Default Know any other skates with adjustable front axle position?

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OK, come clean. admit it. You just love those polymers don't ya??? I have to admit, at first glance I was impressed by these skates. but I have to be honest, not so much after I looked at all the pros and cons a little more carefully. But hey, that's just me. and I sure don't know it all. I just play a guy who does.
I will be glad to review your candidate for an adjustable front axle position skate. Not too many out there and NONE at this price.

Considering what this skate delivers for its price, the positives outweigh the negatives.

-Armadillo
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 12:45 AM   #15
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Hello Armadillo,

I tried the Alphas outside today. They are pretty rough on the wide sidewalk cracks, but should be very skatable on the roads in the sub division. It was a bit of an adventure learning to use the back brake after having problems with the plastic toe 'stop'. I didn't swap the wheels back to front yet. I didn't have enough daylight to rework the skates entirely AND skate.

There are two screws holding the front truck. The screw that's easy to see and an additional one under the truck. The adjustable front truck isn't very adjustable using both screws - it's about 1/4 inch additional from where the trucks are set at the factory. Again, I didn't have enough time to fiddle too much with them tonight. I wonder if both screws are necessary.

I did ask at the rink about outdoor skates. They said that if the toe stops are in good shape and there isn't noticeable grit and dirt, it's no problem to skate them inside.

Overall, I like the Alphas. The boot is a little cheapish, but they seem skatable. It will take me some time to get used to them.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 09:29 PM   #16
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Default I assumed Alpha1 and Aerial were same plate design

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Originally Posted by newellcr View Post
Hello Armadillo,

I tried the Alphas outside today. They are pretty rough on the wide sidewalk cracks, but should be very skatable on the roads in the sub division. It was a bit of an adventure learning to use the back brake after having problems with the plastic toe 'stop'. I didn't swap the wheels back to front yet. I didn't have enough daylight to rework the skates entirely AND skate.

There are two screws holding the front truck. The screw that's easy to see and an additional one under the truck. The adjustable front truck isn't very adjustable using both screws - it's about 1/4 inch additional from where the trucks are set at the factory. Again, I didn't have enough time to fiddle too much with them tonight. I wonder if both screws are necessary.

I did ask at the rink about outdoor skates. They said that if the toe stops are in good shape and there isn't noticeable grit and dirt, it's no problem to skate them inside.

Overall, I like the Alphas. The boot is a little cheapish, but they seem skatable. It will take me some time to get used to them.

Thanks,

Chris
My Aerials have only one screw at the rear of the front hanger to position the front hanger location on the plate. When it is fully loosened, the hanger can move about one inch along the adjustment slot. Best if you don't let the nut come off the adjuster screw inside the nut slot, as it can be hard to re-engage it when it is flopping around inside the slot.

If the Alpha1 has TWO screws for adjusting the front truck location, then it is different. What is the point of an adjustment design if will only move 1/4"??

-Armadillo
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Old April 29th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #17
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Armadillo, I am considering picking these up for outdoor trail endurance practice. I know I am dragging this out of the depths a year later but I was hoping you could answer a few questions.

1) You mention putting the 70mm wheels up front. Are you saying to buy an extra set so that you have 70mm front and back? Or are you saying to just swap and have 70mm front, 65mm back? If you meant the latter, would it be better to have 70mm/70mm instead?

2) Would I notice a big difference between moving the front truck into the fullest forward position and ditching the traction control bar versus just leaving it where it comes right out of the box? If yes, what would the difference be?

My friend just bought outdoor wheels for his indoor skates and he said the trail was vibrating his feet to death. I was thinking that these would cost about the same as outdoor wheels and might be more cushioned. I also wouldn't have to mess with changing out my wheels. I wish I were more mechanically inclined, you guys have made some killer looking outdoor skates from the posts I have seen.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #18
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Default You don't have to make them yourself

There are people on this site that are great at mounting plates. It is well worth the money to buy the correct plate and the boot/shoe that works best for you and pay them to mount it properly.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #19
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Default I doubt these outdoor skates are still availabe

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Originally Posted by Jakelin View Post
Armadillo, I am considering picking these up for outdoor trail endurance practice. I know I am dragging this out of the depths a year later but I was hoping you could answer a few questions.

1) You mention putting the 70mm wheels up front. Are you saying to buy an extra set so that you have 70mm front and back? Or are you saying to just swap and have 70mm front, 65mm back? If you meant the latter, would it be better to have 70mm/70mm instead?

2) Would I notice a big difference between moving the front truck into the fullest forward position and ditching the traction control bar versus just leaving it where it comes right out of the box? If yes, what would the difference be?

My friend just bought outdoor wheels for his indoor skates and he said the trail was vibrating his feet to death. I was thinking that these would cost about the same as outdoor wheels and might be more cushioned. I also wouldn't have to mess with changing out my wheels. I wish I were more mechanically inclined, you guys have made some killer looking outdoor skates from the posts I have seen.
Good luck finding these skates anymore! If you can, let me know where please. [ ***WOW I checked LINK and they are still out there!]
You are correct that these skates come with a Hi/Lo wheel setup with 70mm in the rear and 65mm up front. The suggestion to swap wheels however demands that you either remove the toe stops or file them away where the 70mm wheels will rub against them (not a simple task).

Yes, for outdoor skating, dumping the bar and moving front truck full forward is the way to go. You will notice a big reduction in the tendency of your front wheels to stick in cracks or on surface debris. This is also why the 70mm wheels belong in the front.

BTW, I am also offering to do custom outdoor skate builds mounting any style of shoe/boot to any suitable plates (preferably NYLON), at any position that is workable for outdoor use (preferably reversed for heel stop). I especially advise people to find their ultimately comfortable well cushioned sport shoe, and then have it glue mounted to the nylon plate of their choice (screws can work - just not as well).

-Armadillo
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Old April 30th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #20
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That Alpha 1 sure is one crazy looking skate.
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