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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old August 13th, 2010, 02:28 PM   #41
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This reminds me of the book Natural Cures "They" don't Want you to Know About by Kevin Trudeau. It came out in 2004 and sold a zillion copies. The basic premise of the book is that there is a conspiracy by big pharmaceutical companies to cover up legitimate alternative health remedies. Here is and example:


Quote:
Did you know that the natural herb ephedra was banned by the FDA, but a court in Utah said the ban was illegal? Ephedra has a track record of over 3,000 years of usage. Pseudo-ephedrine, a man-made, patented chemical that acts similarly to ephedra, has never had any restrictions placed on it until now, when--with the ban on ephedra in place-pseudo-ephedrine can be used to manufacture "illegal" drugs. The natural ephedra cannot be used to manufacture illegal drugs and is perfectly safe when taken as directed. The baseball player who died, supposedly from taking ephedra (along with sports supplements), was also drinking diet sodas--which are still totally legal to drink.
People buy into it because they love conspiracy theories.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 06:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.
This may be the dumbest statement I have ever read.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 06:36 PM   #43
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Did you know that the natural herb ephedra was banned by the FDA, but a court in Utah said the ban was illegal? Ephedra has a track record of over 3,000 years of usage. Pseudo-ephedrine, a man-made, patented chemical that acts similarly to ephedra, has never had any restrictions placed on it until now, when--with the ban on ephedra in place-pseudo-ephedrine can be used to manufacture "illegal" drugs. The natural ephedra cannot be used to manufacture illegal drugs and is perfectly safe when taken as directed. The baseball player who died, supposedly from taking ephedra (along with sports supplements), was also drinking diet sodas--which are still totally legal to drink.

The baseball player that died was an idiot-like any type of "drug" if you abuse it or don't know what you are doing-you will pay the price.

I have taken ephedra in some way shape or form, off and on, mostly on, for 22 years now.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #44
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I have taken ephedra in some way shape or form, off and on, mostly on, for 22 years now.
Why do you take it?
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Old August 13th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #45
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Why do you take it?
I guess I should go back.......

Back before it was "banned" I took it in some way shape or form (either pill or drink) about every day, sometimes twice a day, and depending on the workout in big doses.

Since "the ban" I take it for about 3 months generally before we take our fall vacation so I can lose additional lbs both so I can look good for the Ms. and because when November and December get here it is my busy time and I don't get to the gym as much so I gain the weight back. Sucks but it is what it is.

To directly answer your question.....

I take it for additional fat loss and the amped up feeling you get before you train.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Malcom View Post
I guess I should go back.......

Back before it was "banned" I took it in some way shape or form (either pill or drink) about every day, sometimes twice a day, and depending on the workout in big doses.

Since "the ban" I take it for about 3 months generally before we take our fall vacation so I can lose additional lbs both so I can look good for the Ms. and because when November and December get here it is my busy time and I don't get to the gym as much so I gain the weight back. Sucks but it is what it is.

To directly answer your question.....

I take it for additional fat loss and the amped up feeling you get before you train.
Not sure why you're using quotation marks, as its use is actually prohibited by the FDA since 2004.

Also, please be aware of the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptodate.com--awfully handy, though I'm not sure what the general public has access to...
Pharmacology Ephedra contains the alkaloids ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, which are routinely isolated and used in OTC products as decongestants. Ephedra is a potent sympathomimetic that stimulates alpha-, beta1-, and beta2-adrenergic receptors, and the release of norepinephrine (Langwinski, 1972). Its activity on the sympathetic nervous system causes vasoconstriction and cardiac stimulation. It is a sympathomimetic and produces a temporary rise in both systolic and diastolic blood pressure, causes mydriasis, produces bronchial muscle relaxation, and is a vasoconstrictor.

Warnings and Interactions Ephedra has been shown to cause hypertension, palpitations, arrhythmias, tachycardia, myocardial infarction, cardiac arrest, and sudden death. CNS events may include stroke, seizures, and transient ischemic attacks (Haller, 2000; Traub, 2001).
While we're at it, here's the FDA's statement on it.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:26 PM   #47
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If colloidal silver is such a good thing, maybe Armadillo should glue some on?

Don't know much about any ephedra conspiracy, but I knew a woman who died from fen-fen. Screwed up her heart valve and turned her off like a light switch.

But on the subject of conspiracies, I think THC, or marijuana gets a bad rap. It is a lot safer than barbituate drugs as it is not addicting when used to ease pain. The thing is, is does not really ease pain, you just don't care about the pain so much. It is also good for recreation. It can grow cheap almost anywhere. So that is why drug and Liquor companies don't like THC. If legal, it could really cut into their profits. Folks like to throw out the accusation of "habit forming" because they cannot honestly call it addicting. Oh, and gateway drug. Like that has any meaning. Probably better used in a non-smoking fashion, like in cookies. Cook in water and oil. The water takes out all of the unwanted gunk, the THC will bond with the fat. Then use in cooking. Thats what I would do if I had some. Haven't been high in a LONG time. But I remember I liked it, and it was not too different from being drunk. If I were in chronic pain, I would use THC before I would get hooked on pain killers, thats for sure.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:30 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Myuu View Post
Not sure why you're using quotation marks, as its use is actually prohibited by the FDA since 2004.
Why-because it is a f...ing joke. One, two, or a handful of people die from it over the course of years and there is some big hoopla made about it. I would almost be there have been more people killed in 10 years, let's say from 1994-2004 since it was "banned" then, by bad sushi as opposed to ephedra.

How many people are killed by alcohol every year? I can 6 ephedra tablets and be fine to drive a car, and perform whatever physical and mental task I need to. I can take 6 shots of tequilla and be the total opposite.

Which is worse for you?
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Old August 13th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Don't know much about any ephedra conspiracy, but I knew a woman who died from fen-fen. Screwed up her heart valve and turned her off like a light switch.
Yeah, it can really mess up the way your heart does business. Sympathomimetics are not to be toyed with.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 12:44 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaterdog View Post
This reminds me of the book Natural Cures "They" don't Want you to Know About by Kevin Trudeau. It came out in 2004 and sold a zillion copies. The basic premise of the book is that there is a conspiracy by big pharmaceutical companies to cover up legitimate alternative health remedies. Here is and example

People buy into it because they love conspiracy theories.
Part of becoming an intelligent human being requires learning how to navigate the transitions from "conspiracy theories" to => CONSPIRACY FACTS!

Much of what has happened throughout history was orchestrated by people working within conspiracies to foist their agendas on others by gaining enough power over them to produce the results they wanted.

Those who can't seem to wrap their minds around these very many and clearly PROVEN conspiracy facts, would rather just dismiss them by slapping the "conspiracy theory" label on everything contrary to their own narrow and cozy little world view.
In fact it is the very mainstream media that uses and promotes this term the most, and all the trusting sheeple then parrot the term endlessly to avoid having to seriously evaluate or to face any truths that might shatter their personal reality.


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Old August 14th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
Putting your stuff in bold underlined caps doesn't make it right. People have been trying to tell you that for years.

Any kind of silver, no matter the form, when it hits the hydrochloric acid in the stomach will basically become silver chloride. This reaction occurs even if you really believe that it doesn't. This reaction occurs even if you type in bolded underlined caps that it doesn't. This reaction occurs even if you find a website that says it doesn't.

You are a relatively smart guy. Don't let yourself be fooled by people who don't really know what they are talking about. This is like all the people who claim to see hundreds of stones in their poo after reading a website and drinking mass quantities of olive oil and epsom salts. Someone tells a good story. Someone wants to believe it. Suddenly it's a fact.
Maybe if you quit posting outright LIES in lowercase, I wouldn't need to use so much UPPERCASE.
Colloidal silver does not accumulate in the body, regardless of your imagined stomach chemistry theories.

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Old August 14th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #52
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Last edited by Bill in Houston; August 14th, 2010 at 03:26 PM. Reason: still scraping.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
...
Colloidal silver does not accumulate in the body...
Obviously you did not care at all about what Myuu posted regarding this issue. Or you will have to accuse Myuu or the authors of that paper for lies/imagined theories too.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 02:25 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.
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Originally Posted by Malcom View Post
This may be the dumbest statement I have ever read.
That's exactly what i thought, too.
Really, the issue is that views like this are perfectly fine if they are posed as one's own personal preference, but are totally our of line when they are projected onto anyone who has a differing attitude.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 02:37 AM   #55
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That's exactly what i thought, too.
Really, the issue is that views like this are perfectly fine if they are posed as one's own personal preference, but are totally our of line when they are projected onto anyone who has a differing attitude.
LOL I would love for him to bring his 150lb a.. to the gym I train at and tell us that "we lack self-motivation".
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Old August 14th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #56
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Hi Bill in Houston,

I don't want to enter into the Ag (Silver) debate. I see no merit.

Yet in working on Lead Free Solders in electronics caused by the EU (European Union) faulty science, my study with help from others in my field, yielded some interesting things that happen when foreign metals entered into our digestive tract.

The use of some of these metals historically was quite interesting. In addition precious metals like Gold and Silver in tiny slices have been used for centuries in places like India. It is an Industry that you can read about in a quite old National Geographic. I guess if it costs money it has got to be good to eat.

What seems to happen is that the body's rejection mechanism casts this foreign stuff out and the process of removal is seen as GREAT/GOOD. This idea has been with us for more than 1000 years.

Cheers Bill,

Yours in Skating, Engineering, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old August 14th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #57
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Last edited by Bill in Houston; August 14th, 2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: scrape, scrape, scrape
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Old August 14th, 2010, 03:30 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Malcom View Post
Why-because it is a f...ing joke. One, two, or a handful of people die from it over the course of years and there is some big hoopla made about it. I would almost be there have been more people killed in 10 years, let's say from 1994-2004 since it was "banned" then, by bad sushi as opposed to ephedra.

How many people are killed by alcohol every year? I can 6 ephedra tablets and be fine to drive a car, and perform whatever physical and mental task I need to. I can take 6 shots of tequilla and be the total opposite.

Which is worse for you?
Well now, that isn't exactly a fair comparison. If we're talking about the direct pathophysiological effects of alcohol use, chronic abuse may result first in steatosis of the liver which impairs function and then to cirrhosis or go straight to cirrhosis, which more or less means that you're in need of a new liver.

Now, all of that happens over a long time and up to a certain point is reversible.

With pseudoephedrine, aka ephedra, we're talking about a sympathomimetic agent, which is to say that is an activator of the sympathetic nervous system. That means we would be dealing with increased heart rate, increased contractility, increased speed of transmission of nerve impulses, and therefore increased stroke volume. The overall effect being that your heart is working extra hard with nerve impulses all over the place.

You know what that leads to? Tachycardia. Arrhythmia. Cardiac fatigue. Cardiac ischemia. Heart attack. Death.

And that one's pretty quick.

So. Knowing the possibilities and forced to choose (in this ridiculous binary) a "therapeutic" agent, I can either let you have the slow-acting agent that does reversible damage that won't be fatal for years and years or I can give you the fast acting unregulated (which is to say that it's production processes are not overseen and it's purity anything but guaranteed) agent that Could kill you on the spot.

Tough choice. If you don't mind sudden death, I guess.

Note: This information is not given nor should it be construed as medical advice.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 03:48 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.
I'm only there becuase i like to look at myself in all the mirrors. That's a good reason, isn't it?
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Old August 14th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #60
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I'm only there becuase i like to look at myself in all the mirrors. That's a good reason, isn't it?
You're not vain, you just have high self esteem!
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