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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old May 10th, 2016, 07:14 AM   #41
jackbkwikn
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I didnt know roll line made outdoor wheels .I thought they made art skating wheels and good plates.

Stick to purpose built outdoor wheels, everyone down here swears by road hogs.....
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Old May 10th, 2016, 07:32 AM   #42
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I didnt know roll line made outdoor wheels .I thought they made art skating wheels and good plates.

Stick to purpose built outdoor wheels, everyone down here swears by road hogs.....
Buying a set soon.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 08:02 AM   #43
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That is exactly the problem with the Hydrogen and Helium wheels → they are just art wheel designs with their 'thane adjusted to be softer and very high rebound. They remain too small diameter. Their narrow width is at least a plus for outdoors

The super thin urethane layer concept may work well indoors for the precision needed by art skaters, but for wheels to do a good job outdoors a minimum urethane layer of about 10mm is needed for the typical kinds of non-perfect asphalt and concrete most of us have to contend with.

If they ever wake up to reality and kick the diameter up to 70mm, I think they could nearly match the Velocity Race level of performance and low weight.

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Old May 10th, 2016, 08:34 AM   #44
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I often see the 65mm old kryptos and tom petersons.
What are they like compared to a new purpose built outdoor wheel.
Old V new.
Not a big outdoor skater but i understand the need for a big soft wheel.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 10:08 AM   #45
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Default 70mm krypton routes

Found the 70mm krypto routes good for skating on pavers, tried some 65mm sure grip motions on a bridge, only issue is skating over the expansion joints.
The 78a wheels without a metal hub seem to give more. I think you can skate any wheel depends on how comfy you want the ride?
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Old May 10th, 2016, 02:29 PM   #46
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If you race quads outdoor's, (why), heliums may not be your wheel, but if you don't race quads outdoors (why would anyone) they are the best wheel available, great hubs very light weight, a 22mm (od) hub so you can use real bearings(ceramic bones), not the 16mm steel suckers, and they are in production.
So, apples and oranges, but why waste time going so slowly outdoors (quads) if you have a need for speed.

Inlines are much faster, and if speed is what you seek,well...
Personally, I prefer a road bicycle, much faster then inlines, no horns growing on the heel, (just making a point, not trying to dis the world class athletes that race quads)
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Old May 10th, 2016, 03:47 PM   #47
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I don't race quads and I will never use another roll line wheel again. I do not trust their urethane for 1, and firmly believe ATOM has better quality. I will say nothing bad about their hubs, nice stuff, but the urethane is too thin, so when it goes to deform at all it reaches its flexibility limit and because of the splines they use in the wheel for bonding, it causes compressive waves as the wheel rotates with no room for the urethane to squirm away so there is virtually no rebound to them, since the urethanes compression is virtually prohibited by the setup its being used in on the heliums. Ursle, they are a terrible wheel, both indoors and out. I highly recommend you get some atom poisons used off a derby girl so you can see the light.

My poisons are beat down pretty bad and as anyone who has skated for a long time knows, after urethane has been abused for a while it does lose some performance. The atoms still trump the roll lines both indoors and out even with the urethane to hub bonding issue, and their less rigid hubs. This just shows that thicker urethane (to a point of course) performs better when wheel compression is part of the rolling equation.

My royal assassins have thinner urethane than the heliums, but they are very hard(95A) and the amount of compression the urethane sees is not the same. This is probably why roll line doesnt know how to make a good outdoor wheel, since most of their wheels are harder.

Also the royal assassins use 16mm bearings, and they work great when on a good axle. The bearings die easily on my arius plate though because it does not keep them lined up. 7.6mm bevel where the outside bearing sits vs the 8mm axle where the inside bearing sits puts a hard bind on such a small part. A 608 has more width, and the hubs they go in are not spaced quite as wide as a bont wheel so they dont experience the same issue, so a wear comparison on that alone is not fair. Also a larger bearing has more room for radial and axial internal clearances. I wont completely discredit micros yet, as I havent had enough time to abuse them on a proper setup, and we have had 608s fail as well.

Inlines really arent that much faster, but energy efficient, you betcha. If the goal is exercise, whay does it matter the speed? Most people at a good clip in inlines or quads cannot stop fast.

Expensive bearings(bones ceramics) are a waste of good money, there is no significant benefits. Better to save money and buy more wheels, that is unless your into wasting money just to claim you have expensive bearings.

Skating is much more (for me anyways)fun than cycling. I can use so much more energy on my skates. I can go harder and get more power and exertion out in a shorter amount of time if I wish, and I dont need miles and miles of road. The only thing I can think of that is capable of being more taxing is sprinting on foot, or swimming freestyle stroke at 100%
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Old May 10th, 2016, 11:09 PM   #48
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Mort, exactly correct → the softer the urethane the deeper it squishes, but if the layer over the hub is too thin, there isn't enough material to allow for the necessary amount of squishing, then rebounding back outward with max energy return.

Instead there is partial squish to the stress limit where rebound efficiency gets compromised, at which point the further squish wastes energy and degrades the urethane's rebound response..

Maybe if you weigh 110 lbs. Heliums could work well for you and last a decent amount of miles, but for more typical weight skaters, they need at least a few more millimeters of material added to get them close to a 70mm OD, instead of 64mm.

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Old May 11th, 2016, 12:49 AM   #49
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Ah, the only perpetual motion couple on the planet(hopefully), I digress, urethane sucks energy, more urethane sucks more energy, and if you think that the wheel squishes giving you more "purchase" and rebound.... multiply the energy loss by two, and then add bearings that aren't optimal, gosh, now you're going backwards.

Obviously, it seems wheels are like art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if the eye thinks perpetual motion is at play, or...the moon is tooo full, let's back up, look at weight and quality of build, and weight, well, if you insist that you surf the urethane between yourself and the hub and it accelerates you, I'm thinking your eyes are influenced by a blue moon, and your opinion is suspect
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Old May 11th, 2016, 03:25 AM   #50
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Ah, the only perpetual motion couple on the planet(hopefully), I digress, urethane sucks energy, more urethane sucks more energy, and if you think that the wheel squishes giving you more "purchase" and rebound.... multiply the energy loss by two, and then add bearings that aren't optimal, gosh, now you're going backwards.

Obviously, it seems wheels are like art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if the eye thinks perpetual motion is at play, or...the moon is tooo full, let's back up, look at weight and quality of build, and weight, well, if you insist that you surf the urethane between yourself and the hub and it accelerates you, I'm thinking your eyes are influenced by a blue moon, and your opinion is suspect
Your a fool man. Not one person here is talking about perpetual motion or any nonsense associated with it.

Even if we made a machine to accurately display the benefits of a proper outdoor wheel which requires more urethane than an indoor wheel, youd come up with some ridiculous ignorance about ants in africa or some crap.

It shouldnt be hard to understand compressive waves and how a thicker urethane can sustain a higher rotational speed with less rolling resistance because the urethane is not working at its maximum potential. Its not squished to the limits. This is what is going on in heliums vs atom poisons. Both have similar ridges inside the wheel, however theres almost no room netween the od of the wheel and the od of the hub for the urethane to deal with the compressive waves. Ontop of that the large hub on the roll line wheel has (or should) more ridges in the wheels hub. This is like the urethane hitting lots of square bumps. Just because the ground is flat does not mean the inside of the hub is.

In effect, since you dont understand urethane and polymers. .., your expecting a spring that is stretched to its max to perform well as its stretched beyond its physical capabilities. Divining boards, trampolines or any device that is capable of storing energy has a prime environment for maximum efficiency. Roll line wheels are WAY behind the curve here. Its ok to be in the dark, just stop talking out your ass if you dont understand.

Wheels are not like art. They have defineable characteristics, and performaces. Roll line heliums fall short of many peoples expectations. Get some better wheels and you'll figure this out, like some atom poison slims or atom road hogs, maybe get off those lame tennis courts since you dont seem to have a concept of "outdoor" skating.
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Old May 11th, 2016, 07:32 AM   #51
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I say we give up on ursle until his Helium infatuation wears off (and they wear out). Until he finally gets a chance to roll on some actually superior performing outdoor wheels, maybe we shouldn't pop his Helium Balloon fantasy.

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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #52
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Aw, Shucks, I really want to hear more about how a wheel without enough urethane to feel a wave "on" isn't a good wheel, even though it's lighter, butt, what does a poison weigh?

I'm excited about getting wheels that will accelerate me just by standing on them and moving in any direction, run it by me again, the urethane pushes back as it moves around and you accelerate? What?
And dinar are ready to take over the world of finance.
And cold fusion is for sale (where?)
And the earth is cooling off (when)
And friction inside a skate boot is good (?)

BTW, mort you bought a set of helium's and hated them why did you buy three more sets?
I paid 54.75$ shipped for a set last month, and IMHO are a great wheel, and the company that makes them exists because people agree, they know what they are doing, as I recall, the hydrogen-helium wheels are the only urethane wheels they produce, the rest are plastic or mixtures of plastic and urethane, but the hub is spot on, and you-all hate them because they are throw away(short life), well, move on.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #53
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,,, and the company that makes them exists because people agree, they know what they are doing, as I recall, the hydrogen-helium wheels are the only urethane wheels they produce, the rest are plastic or mixtures of plastic and urethane, but the hub is spot on, and you-all hate them because they are throw away(short life), well, move on.
If you can't even process what is already posted in this thread only a day or two prior, I worry for you.

Note the DOCUMENTED PICs of the degraded HELIUN WHEELS with urethane at 83A durometer posted above,

On super smooth outdoor surfaces and for skaters under 175 lbs. I think these are great, but on rougher surfaces and for heavier skaters. they perform less well and they die an early death -- as DOCUMENTED ABOVE.

Nobody who has rolled rough asphalt on the many BETTER PERFORMING alternative choices for a premium outdoor wheel will ever be singing the praises of Roll Line HELIUM wheels (except for their hub & very low weight).

After I rolled just one outdoor session on Velocity Race 70mm wheels, I totally dumped my Helium set for outdoor use. I will hang on to one set though for use on super slippery indoor floors, for which they are great.

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Old May 12th, 2016, 03:33 AM   #54
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*snip**


BTW, mort you bought a set of helium's and hated them why did you buy three more sets?
I paid 54.75$ shipped for a set last month, and IMHO are a great wheel, and the company that makes them exists because people agree, they know what they are doing, as I recall, the hydrogen-helium wheels are the only urethane wheels they produce, the rest are plastic or mixtures of plastic and urethane, but the hub is spot on, and you-all hate them because they are throw away(short life), well, move on.
The hubs are great, super snug fit, i was happy upon putting bearings in them, until I rolled them that is.

I paid abour 45$ per set, for 2 brand new sets, and about 20$ per set for 2 pairs of used ones which were almost brand new. I bought the used ones for other skaters in the derby leauge to have a dedicated set of "outdoor" wheels. So they were resold basically at cost, same with the new ones, i have 1 set left my daughter hasnt tried yet, once she does and notices the difference between poisons and those heliums she'll not what "her set" either.

Granted she weighs about 50lbs less than I do, but I have other very experienced skaters in her weigjt range that have tried them and hated their performance indoors and out.

Now I ignored the other banter you always do, it never gets anywhere ezcept repeating the same things and you failing to understanf things

, but really , either try poisons, or wait for a review from me getting these road hogs in. I bought a set earlier today. Ill let ya know how they compare to the other wheels i have used this far outdoors.

I have several places I skate that have varying terrain. Ill give a review.

Atom poisons with spacers weighed in at 130.5G for the wide verson, narrow would be about 112 id guess.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 09:29 AM   #55
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I'm excited about getting wheels that will accelerate me just by standing on them and moving in any direction, run it by me again, the urethane pushes back as it moves around and you accelerate? What?
And dinar are ready to take over the world of finance.
And cold fusion is for sale (where?)
And the earth is cooling off (when)
And friction inside a skate boot is good (?)
So waves are perpetual motion and Newton's Third Law of Motion is cold fusion. This stuff isn't voodoo, it's basic physics... The exact mechanisms behind the physics of deformation, rebound, compression, etc are not trivial to describe precisely, so it's understandable if there's a point of confusion. Though, there are more effective ways of communicating than accusing well respected members of this forum of prescribing to pseudo-science.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:56 PM   #56
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Perpetual motion,
perpetual motion, the action of a device that, once set in motion, would continue in motion forever, with no additional energy required to maintain it. Such devices are impossible on grounds stated by the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

Perpetual motion, although impossible to produce, has fascinated both inventors and the general public for hundreds of years. The enormous appeal of perpetual motion resides in the promise of a virtually free and limitless source of power. The fact that perpetual-motion machines cannot work because they violate the laws of thermodynamics has not discouraged inventors and hucksters from attempting to break, circumvent, or ignore those laws.

And btw, if cold fusion were to exist, it would be breaking Newton's third law, not to speak of perpetual motion being a pipe dream, but I don't mind endlessly pointing out that these pseudo-science seeking people are indeed blowing smoke up yer butt.
Tell me again about the wave of urethane contained energy between the bottom of the hub and the ground accelerating a person, I so love fairy tales, and need convincing that someone isn't outright lying
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:29 AM   #57
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Perpetual motion,
perpetual motion, the action of a device that, once set in motion, would continue in motion forever, with no additional energy required to maintain it. Such devices are impossible on grounds stated by the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

Perpetual motion, although impossible to produce, has fascinated both inventors and the general public for hundreds of years. The enormous appeal of perpetual motion resides in the promise of a virtually free and limitless source of power. The fact that perpetual-motion machines cannot work because they violate the laws of thermodynamics has not discouraged inventors and hucksters from attempting to break, circumvent, or ignore those laws.

And btw, if cold fusion were to exist, it would be breaking Newton's third law, not to speak of perpetual motion being a pipe dream, but I don't mind endlessly pointing out that these pseudo-science seeking people are indeed blowing smoke up yer butt.
Tell me again about the wave of urethane contained energy between the bottom of the hub and the ground accelerating a person, I so love fairy tales, and need convincing that someone isn't outright lying

Why in the hell you keep on this perpetual motion thing, like anyone on here believes it, is beyond me.

The setup on roll line heliums puts the urethane at such a constraint it cannot deal with the compressive wave which occurs when a person rolls on a wheel. This increases its rolling resistance. Take a good look at your wheels ursle(Mike ). Youll see a lot of raised ridges in the hub. This is a necessity of course to have something to lock the urethane in the hubs OD, however since it's so thin its rebound is significantly less. Uea im sure it makes no sense to you, but imagine a trampoline that needs a 10 inch spring that can expand to 2x its length for good bounceing properties. Now you cut that spring in half and expect the same performance from the trampoline. Its not going to happen.


I had a pair of mongoose inlines for my kid, they didnt fit right so I used the wheels for myself. Fairly decent wheels, or so I thought. They were 80 mm with a very large od hub and thin urethane. The urethane quality was good, little suckera would bounce well when dropped from a few inches, but not from a few feet. I figured going from the 72 mm hockey wheels I had on would be an kmprovement. Totally wrong. After about 12 to 15 mph it didnt matter how hard I pushed, the skates just wouldn't go any faster. I couldnt figure out why a larger wheel would be so slow. When I checked tje urethane thickness on them in comparison the 72s had a very small core and almost 1/2 inch of urethane between the hub od and the wheels od. The i0 mm wheels had half that. Only 1/4 inch of urethane around the hub..

What happens here is simply too much strain on the urethane because it is too thin, much like a spring that is too short on a trampoline will ueild a "dead" feeling. We arent talking about making energy from nothing, we are talking about rebound %. And the thinner the urethane gets the hard it has to work and the more likely rebound will drop.

Personally I dont have a problem with the roll line wheels not having good wear characteristics, i wouldnt really know, i did not skate them much, once outdoors for about an hour and for the skate session that night. They felt horrible, like hard plasticy fisher price wheels or something.

Ill get the kids review on poisons vs road hogs vs heliums. We got some rough and smooth asphalt sports right by the house.

If roll line had such breakthrough wheel tech and setuos for quad skates, the longboardwrs would have wheels that looked the same, giant hubs with no urethane. I think we all know that wouldnt work at all, and would be slow as mud. I do have a longboard, maybe ill play around with it soon. Too much OT right now tho :/
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