Plates for Speed?

[SwisherTONE]

OK, I kinda chimed out of this thread already. Said my piece about the DA 45 conversations (as an experienced Avenger owning speed skater), but....

I skate a DA 45 chasis(the Avenger) several times a week (most weeks) and competitively at that.

I have nooooo flippin idea what is being talked about when it's described as twitchy geometry. I skate a very light weight solid alloy plate with DA 45 trucks and I skate them fast and hard. They're solid, ultra-responsive, 'stable', and sharp. Twitchy is not a word that I would even remotely consider using to describe them. (5'11" / 180lbs)

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by SwisherTONE

OK, I kinda chimed out of this thread already. Said my piece about the DA 45 conversations (as an experienced Avenger owning speed skater), but....

I skate a DA 45 chasis(the Avenger) several times a week (most weeks) and competitively at that.

I have nooooo flippin idea what is being talked about when it's described as twitchy geometry. I skate a very light weight solid alloy plate with DA 45 trucks and I skate them fast and hard. They're solid, ultra-responsive, 'stable', and sharp. Twitchy is not a word that I would even remotely consider using to describe them. (5'11" / 180lbs)

It is relative... I tune my truck action, it can be slowed even more. I use cones instead of barrel cushions. The plates are machined in the cushion area for more cushion height. This lets me use a very soft cushion setup, no increase in pressure when leaning the plate over(no cushion bind), lets the wheels stick to just about any floor(Anabolix, the Tire). If the wheels don't stick, time to change wheels. Response is set to my preference, not too little and not too much. So when comparing stock to tuned, there is a big difference in reaction of the trucks/skates.

[SwisherTONE]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

It is relative... I tune my truck action, it can be slowed even more. I use cones instead of barrel cushions. The plates are machined in the cushion area for more cushion height. This lets me use a very soft cushion setup, no increase in pressure when leaning the plate over(no cushion bind), lets the wheels stick to just about any floor(Anabolix, the Tire). If the wheels don't stick, time to change wheels. Response is set to my preference, not too little and not too much. So when comparing stock to tuned, there is a big difference in reaction of the trucks/skates.

Exactly! and I've been preaching "Bushing Science" for the longest time... people don't put enough emphasis on their bushing set-up. Kudos to you fierocious1 !!

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by SwisherTONE

Exactly! and I've been preaching "Bushing Science" for the longest time... people don't put enough emphasis on their bushing set-up. Kudos to you fierocious1 !!

The cushions are only part of it, changing the trucks angle is more important. But it goes hand in hand to make a skate work the way you want it to.

[SwisherTONE]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

The cushions are only part of it, changing the trucks angle is more important. But it goes hand in hand to make a skate work the way you want it to.

Well, I know this. I was just emphasizing that you gave regard to the configuration of your bushings being a logistical part of setting up the stability of your skate properly. And I would say that changing the angle of your trucks is 'equally' as important. I wouldn't have said 'more'. But, anyway..

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by SwisherTONE

Well, I know this. I was just emphasizing that you gave regard to the configuration of your bushings being a logistical part of setting up the stability of your skate properly. And I would say that changing the angle of your trucks is 'equally' as important. I wouldn't have said 'more'. But, anyway..

That's right ,you got it!

[Elysarian]

I've tried to stay out of this thread due to it's resemblance to a pissing contest... but feel that I must now comment.

What is good for one skater isn't necessarily good for every skater, I agree that a 45 degree KP angle (or action angle, whatever is actually being measured) will give more turn for a given amount of lean (I don't need a diagram to know this, it's simple trigonometry) but surely suck a plate will offer more flexibility overall?

If you want it to be less turny then run the action tighter or fit harder cushions, more turny then loosen up or fit softer cushions - these are just two massively simplified tuning options of course - mixing cushions offers much more flexibility.

I'm not going down the road of "DA45 is all the plate you'll ever need" but it may be close - I know I've hit the limit on my 15 degree DA plates (they're so loose now that my wheels cut into my boots) and need to up the angle some to get the turning aility I crave so I will be getting a set of Avengers in the next few weeks, if I don't like them (after giving them a couple of months tweak time with the cushions I already have in purple yellow and blue) I'll sell em on and revert to something shallower - perhaps a 20 degree plate.

I know I'll have to adjust my style, to lean into the corners I will have to tilt my ankles more to put less lean into the plate for example but I'm a quick learner

The above is just my ramblings of course and should not be takes as gospel or as support for any particular poster on this thread or others

[princessfluffhead]

Originally Posted by SwisherTONE

Exactly! and I've been preaching "Bushing Science" for the longest time... people don't put enough emphasis on their bushing set-up. Kudos to you fierocious1 !!

I have to say thanks. After reading some of your posts I changed out my bushings and did some tweaking on my DA45s and had a better result than I could have imagined. I saw significant improvement in speed last night at session with improved stability. I know some people hate the DA45s, but I am hooked. I no longer like skating anything else.

[SwisherTONE]

Originally Posted by princessfluffhead

I have to say thanks. After reading some of your posts I changed out my bushings and did some tweaking on my DA45s and had a better result than I could have imagined. I saw significant improvement in speed last night at session with improved stability. I know some people hate the DA45s, but I am hooked. I no longer like skating anything else.

Hey Fluff! Thank you. I appreciate that, and I'm glad you're experiencing much better skating. a 30* degree kingpin (DA 45's) is def the way to go IMO

[Armadillo]

Originally Posted by JandKLarson

I disagree with you assessment of the Advantage. I raced on quads "back in the day," on a Proline and had National medals. I decided to race Quads again last year. When I asked the person building my skates, dvw, what can I get, similar to a Proline, at a lower cost, but similar to a Proline, the answer was an Advantage. I won a National title on these plates last year (Classic 2-man relay). Like everything else in skating, and especially when talking about equipment, it is subjective and all about what works for any particular individual. But to flat out say that the Advantage is not good for speed??? You are wrong. It's a great plate for indoor speed. How about you come to Indoor Nationals in Lincoln this year and we put your theories to a test.... Again, I disagree with your opinion. But it's that, your opinion.

I just noticed that I confused the "Advantage" plate with the "Avenger" plate in an earlier post way back in this thread exposing the downside of exaggerated turning plate designs.
My criticisms were meant for the Avenger NOT the Advantage - which is a great speed plate and many derby jammers love it too. Thanks for defending the Advantage and waking me up to my error.

-Armadillo

[chuckboucher]

Originally Posted by Yogi Bear

Well guys, I broke down and bought the Snyder Advantage. It is now mounted 2 my used 395's I bought(which say 11.5, but fit smaller unfortunately) and I have skated on them about 1 hour.

Let's just say that I almost broke my neck at first. They are super responsive compared to the Riedell plastic plates that were on my R3's. We tightened the action and I am picking things up quickly. I will keep on them and speed skating practice is tomorrow.

I will keep you updated on the progress I make on them and if I like them. I do at this time.

Are you using the stock cushions? If so, hit up the Doc here for some urethane cushions. They really make a difference. I also run an Advantage and they're as close to the holy grail as I have ever skated. (Disclaimer, I haven't skated a whole lot: Ranalli Rocket, XK-4, Satellite, Laser Hardnose, Ultimate III, Roll-Line Mistral, and Advantage, so YMMV.)

[Gee]

I have a pair of magnesium plates. They are the lightest plates I have. They are not Sure-Grip. I can not remember who made them and there is no printing on the plate. I was at a competition many years ago when someone was looking for feedback on the plate they were attempting to bring to market. I remember they also gave plates to Scott Cohen and Tara Lipinski.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by Gee

I have a pair of magnesium plates. They are the lightest plates I have. They are not Sure-Grip. I can not remember who made them and there is no printing on the plate. I was at a competition many years ago when someone was looking for feedback on the plate they were attempting to bring to market. I remember they also gave plates to Scott Cohen and Tara Lipinski.

Take a few pictures then post in Doc's forum for an identification. results will likely happen .

Now, out of curiosity, what is the fully assembled plates weight (grams)?(trucks, cushions, nuts, and without toe stops) also what is the wheelbase? (center of axle to center of axle)