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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old June 18th, 2010, 07:12 AM   #1
AceGTX
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Default Seba KSJ vs. Seba High (deluxe)

Hey all,

I'm a long time skater/beginner slalomer and I'm deciding on whether to buy KSJ's or High deluxes. I was wondering if anyone had some experience comparing these two skates.

Originally, I was pretty set on buying a pair of deluxes from skatecrazy and getting them shipped to Canada (where I live), but incidently I'm China at the moment, and I really want a pair of slalom skates asap I found some Seba KSJ's for sale on this chinese website called taobao.com selling for about 2800 RMB (about 400 dollars - which is around the price of deluxes). So, in addition to my KSJ/High deluxe comparison question, I'm wondering if anyone also has any experience buying KSJ's in asia/from taobao (I'm not sure whether the KSJ's in China are the same as the original)

Thanks in advance!
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Old June 18th, 2010, 06:52 PM   #2
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I'm guessing the KSJ's sold there are 1st gen.
So basically:

KSJs:
Pros - light, top of the range, high performance.
Cons - expensive (but cheaper in china), non replacible liner, wears out 3x faster than High's.

Highs:
Pros - replacable liner, last longer in durability, great skate in general.
Cons - heavier than KSJ, uses cheaper parts if made in China, but still great skates.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #3
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Thanks! very useful info.

I think I'm gonna stick with the Seba Highs then cause I wanna keep them for as long as possible.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 04:45 PM   #4
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I think Seba High Deluxe would be a good choice as well. The first generation KSJ had a problem with a weak support bracket that could break. I saw the next generation KSJ's last weekend at BattleUS in San Francisco and they look much more sturdy. And from what I heard from people using them, they really like the new skate.

I saw a ton of Seba Igors at BattleUS, so that appears to be the more popular skate in the US at the moment. Both Igors and KSJ are similar in that they will be lighter and narrower and stiffer than the Seba Highs, and neither have a liner. As Infinity says, however, they will probably not last as long as the very durable Seba Highs.

From my conversations at BattleUS, it would appear the Igors provide more control for technical tricks than the Seba Highs, but they are not as comfortable, so you are less likely to want to wear them all day.

One note - you might want to be careful about buying the skates in China, as I believe I've heard that there are cheaper Asia versions of the skate, fitted with less expensive parts to accomodate the local market (though I could be wrong about this). $400 sounds like a lot for skates, but that is pretty low for a pair of KSJs.

As you are a beginner, I would recommend the Seba Highs. You could go with the Carbons, but I think the normal boot should be fine. If you have the extra cash, I would definitely recommend the "Deluxe" version, which is the same as the Seba High, but with the upgraded Deluxe frame. The standard frame is fine, but I looove (love love) the deluxe frame. Butter.

I also recommend you buy at SkateCrazy, as they will walk you through a process of precisely measuring your feet to ensure you start with the correct boot size. Other shops will just give you a chart to match shoe size to skate, and that can often be a big mistake. Proper (and tight) fit for a slalom skate is very important.

And be ready for 1 to 1.5 months of break-in pain as the stiff memory liner molds to your foot. The stiffness of the liner makes break-in unpleasant, but you should be rewarded with an excellent, tight, comfortable, and durable fit for a long time afterward.

good luck.

Last edited by GregT; June 22nd, 2010 at 04:47 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 05:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
$400 sounds like a lot for skates, but that is pretty low for a pair of KSJs.

As you are a beginner, I would recommend the Seba Highs. You could go with the Carbons, but I think the normal boot should be fine. If you have the extra cash, I would definitely recommend the "Deluxe" version, which is the same as the Seba High, but with the upgraded Deluxe frame
KSJ's sold in China are the same you buy anywhere else except it's that much cheaper. But you are right, some High models are cheaper made.

The Deluxe frames arn't any different to the standard 7000 except that it's more stiff so it feels easier to do some techincal wheeling tricks.
Weight wise it's lighter but you won't feel any difference.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 09:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity View Post
The Deluxe frames arn't any different to the standard 7000 except that it's more stiff so it feels easier to do some techincal wheeling tricks.
Weight wise it's lighter but you won't feel any difference.
I agree that the difference in weight will probably not be noticeable. And yes, the stiffer frame helps (to me, it just feels better, even for non-technical stuff).

One other advantage, though, is significantly beefed-up support arches on the frame. Originally, I had the standard frames on my Seba Highs. Unfortunately, I broke some of the support arches on both of the 7000 frames while doing off-label tricks (stalls, jumps). The frames were still useable, but considerably less stiff after the support structures were compromised.

On the Deluxe frame, the support arches have been strengthened considerably. This would lead me to believe that the Deluxe frames are much more durable. And my experience has born this out, as I've had no problem with the frames since switching to the upgraded model.

Anywho, the 7000 frames are still fine for slalom. Just don't treat them like an aggro skate.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #7
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Thanks for the replies guys.

I think I'm pretty convinced in getting the deluxe frames at this point, as I've heard a lot of highly positive comments about it, like what GregT said. Can't wait to try them out!

Currently, I'm using these old K2 recreational skates with a flat setup,heel-brake, and plastic frames. I haven't tried slaloming on cones yet, but I recently discovered that I can do some of the basic slalom tricks decently even with those skates (I've been skating self-taught ever since I was kid and have never tried to do any tricks before)

Hoping to enjoy more ease in slaloming with the new freestyle blades, full-rockered setup, and no heel brake!
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #8
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Cool. Good luck with it. I imagine slalom will get easier with rockered wheels and without the heel brake.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 10:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
I saw a ton of Seba Igors at BattleUS, so that appears to be the more popular skate in the US at the moment
Don't forget that a lot of Europeans who where there where wearing these skates aswell, not just US skaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
From my conversations at BattleUS, it would appear the Igors provide more control for technical tricks than the Seba Highs, but they are not as comfortable, so you are less likely to want to wear them all day.
You clearly didn't talk to me about them... I'd love to wear them all day, for me, they have a better fit then the highs, and they had no break in period at all! I love them, since day 1
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Old June 25th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowry View Post
Don't forget that a lot of Europeans who where there where wearing these skates aswell, not just US skaters
Yes, I noticed that too. But I was expecting that, as I'd like to think that European skaters are better than US skaters solely due to superior equipment. And not due to more practice, better training, more talent. But, jees, the whole Seattle crowd was wearing Igors too (except Jeremy in his KSJs)! SkateCrazy must have been giving them away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowry View Post
You clearly didn't talk to me about them... I'd love to wear them all day, for me, they have a better fit then the highs, and they had no break in period at all! I love them, since day 1
No, I forgot to ask your opinion. I'm really glad, though, to hear they were comfortable for you at the start. To be honest, I've shredded the liner on my old skates, and Naomi says I need 243 frames, so I'm thinking of buying a new pair. The Igors sound promising, but I do so love love my Seba Highs. Oh, decisions . . .
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Old June 26th, 2010, 11:44 PM   #11
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Hello!

Ok, so there is little to add to this discussion actually, because all the advice is totally spot on. The Seba High Deluxe are spot on what I would recommend for all the reasons already given. The frames really are to die for.

Greg, just FYI, Igors are not usually kept in general inventory in the US - they are usually ordered in especially. Just be aware of that and speak up the moment you've decided, if you do decide to get the Igors.

Regarding comfort, the Igors are commonly regarded as being very comfortable. I unfortunately went for ones which were too small for me so my feet didn't fit, but that aside, they were the most comfortable skate I've owned in years.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 07:29 AM   #12
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went to try a seba high
OMG, my feet is no painful!

how you guys get use to it?
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 11:49 AM   #13
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By being a man and sucking it up
No way around the pain of the break-in period

~~~Ron
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 12:04 PM   #14
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Seba High have liners that are designed to take form of your foot as you use them. This feature is especially pronounced with Highs if compared to FRs, Igors etc. The good skaters I know after buying a new pair of Highs suffer from a "mandatory wear-in" period which is about a couple of weeks and during which the liner becomes thinner and fits the foot. The less experienced buy a greater size but in a couple of months in this case the boot will get too loose for slalom/shuffles.
But there's also another reason why they can be too stiff: the shell itself is relatively narrow and low. Not every foot can fit such dimensions painlessly. For example, the width is ok for my foot, but instep is so low, that the smallest Seba High I can insert my foot in is 3 sizes bigger than Seba Igor I use, and 2 sizes bigger than my FR1!
At the time of it's introduction it was a controversial approach to produce such stiff skates. Back then the most popular skates were high end Salomons (which had very wide last) and Twisters (which were wider than Highs), the difference was really vast. Later Universkate modified High's last a bit (actually since 2009 there's a single Deluxe last with a bit higher instep for both Deluxe and Highs).
So actually the question is more about if a foot fits the boot at all in the beginning and less about how it gets fit later
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Old September 26th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoRon View Post
By being a man and sucking it up
I've never been a man, and will never be one... I was still sucking it up
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Old September 26th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomi View Post
Regarding comfort, the Igors are commonly regarded as being very comfortable
Update - I just got iGors and take back my comment about them being considered less comfortable than the Highs.

Actually, my iGors were comfy right out of the box. And quite (quite) stiff, which is great for freestyle.

I do seem to have a bit of rubbing on the inside left heel (but no blisters). I need to see if I can do anything lacing-wise differently to address that. Also, I feel some of the hardware through the thinner, built-in liner. Its a bit like the feel of a good speed skate than a rec skate. If you've never used speed skates, it might take a little time to get used to, but its still quite comfy.

And noooooo break-in period!
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Old September 27th, 2010, 12:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowry View Post
I've never been a man, and will never be one... I was still sucking it up
Ah, then you ACTED like a man .
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Old September 27th, 2010, 03:18 AM   #18
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if u are in china
u can get
ticoo.com skate.come with rocker set up
or
Radius skate, come with rocker set up
and much cheaper than Seba FR1

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceGTX View Post
Hey all,

I'm a long time skater/beginner slalomer and I'm deciding on whether to buy KSJ's or High deluxes. I was wondering if anyone had some experience comparing these two skates.

Originally, I was pretty set on buying a pair of deluxes from skatecrazy and getting them shipped to Canada (where I live), but incidently I'm China at the moment, and I really want a pair of slalom skates asap I found some Seba KSJ's for sale on this chinese website called taobao.com selling for about 2800 RMB (about 400 dollars - which is around the price of deluxes). So, in addition to my KSJ/High deluxe comparison question, I'm wondering if anyone also has any experience buying KSJ's in asia/from taobao (I'm not sure whether the KSJ's in China are the same as the original)

Thanks in advance!
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Old September 27th, 2010, 07:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by KryptoRon View Post
Ah, then you ACTED like a man .
Hmm... this could be true...
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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregT View Post
I do seem to have a bit of rubbing on the inside left heel (but no blisters). I need to see if I can do anything lacing-wise differently to address that. Also, I feel some of the hardware through the thinner, built-in liner. Its a bit like the feel of a good speed skate than a rec skate. If you've never used speed skates, it might take a little time to get used to, but its still quite comfy.

And noooooo break-in period!
Here's my experience with Igors. I bought them in March, after a week of "measuring" use exchanged them for a lesser size. Their inside length is definitely longer than nominal. Also they seemed unreasonably wide in the middle, but still low for my instep elevation, so I thermo-moulded them a bit in that part. The heel in the left boot pressed a bit on the heel in lower part of achilles, and more to the sides. It was especially pronounced if you performed back movement of that foot with a bit of inverse. Inverse back shoppingcarts (nelsons) and even simple forward nelsons became quite painful after a month of use. Then a knob grew on my achilles thus making the foot length got greater and making the pressure increase. I was unable to thermomould that part of the shoe (the shoe is not designed for that and is mouldable only in some parts). Actually the pressure comes from carbon edge at the heel.
A couple of weeks ago the glued-in upper part of the right shoe broke off the carbon base at the heel when I was practicing stretches. Apparently that is because their forward-bending is not optimal. Pro-riders who tested Igors in fall 09 told me back then that it was difficult to bend them forward. I never suffered from that much and could not confirm it by the time, but the fact it now got broken when bending knee in forward direction proves that. Seeing something good in everything I used the freshly-made hole to find out how the part that pushes on my heel is made. So I dismantled the left shoe (it was difficult because I glued it myself after my molding attempts and the glue was really good). Then I used my heat canon (I bought one in my previous attempts to thermo-form it) and back side of medical scalpel to straighten the carbon on the edge. This time that had some effect, though I don't feel it's enough.
Despite it all , Igors are the best and the most controllable skates I tried.
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