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Old August 11th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #21
PBLsQuad450
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Hey all, just figured I would share 2 things... On NPR today they reported that the number of antibiotic resistant bug transmissions is actually going down. Albeit, I only caught the tail end of the report. The researchers think it is simply a function of better hand washing behavior. And, in support of their claim, about two years ago, I spent months in close contact with someone infected with MRSA and other hospital type superbugs. I was never effected. What did I do? I washed my hands when I changed environments, like when I got to work or got home. That's it.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 12:59 AM   #22
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Hey all, just figured I would share 2 things... On NPR today they reported that the number of antibiotic resistant bug transmissions is actually going down. Albeit, I only caught the tail end of the report. The researchers think it is simply a function of better hand washing behavior. And, in support of their claim, about two years ago, I spent months in close contact with someone infected with MRSA and other hospital type superbugs. I was never effected. What did I do? I washed my hands when I changed environments, like when I got to work or got home. That's it.
Yeah...I heard that too. The increased use of hand sanitizer is a big part of it.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #23
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Yeah...I heard that too. The increased use of hand sanitizer is a big part of it.
Plus the increased use of spleen protection.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 02:29 AM   #24
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Plus the increased use of spleen protection.
Having a spleen is a very good thing.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 04:09 AM   #25
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Bill, the "blue man" was ingesting silver COMPOUNDS, and not properly prepared totally COLLOIDAL silver.

This page debunks the "peer reviewed" papers critical of colloidal silver use:
LINK => http://www.colloidalsilver.cc/oppose.htm

EXCERPT: from "Colloidal Silver Disinformation Page"
Colloidal silver side effects:
The FDA, AMA, FTC and Quackwatch hold out the claim that silver has no proven beneficial medicinal effects and may in fact cause tissue damage despite many peer reviewed silver ion studies which prove silver ions' safety and effectiveness in killing bacterial organisms and regenerating tissue.

These 'gate-keepers', which many Americans rely upon for a fair and balanced recital of accurate health and labeling information have for several years cited a small number of BOGUS studies in an attempt to discredit colloidal silver (Ag+ in colloidal suspension) and the use of silver ions (Ag+) in medicine.

They have in fact discredited themselves as silver is simply the best all around germ fighter we have on planet Earth...PERIOD. No side effects, no drug interactions, safe enough to use as an eye-wash and DEATH to any single celled ORGANISMS. Too much can kill off intestinal flora however we have consumed up to 1 litre per day to kill off water borne organism in India with no intestinal flora repercussions.

Recently the FDA has approved silver nylon dressings including over the counter versions, apparently giving in to the notion that silver kills germs; they still won't allow the manufacturer to claim wounds heal faster which is FACT.

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Old August 11th, 2010, 10:33 AM   #26
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Uh, as I was saying, colloidal silver nitrates are licensed for medically appropriate antibiotic therapies. The FDA does that.

'Colloidal silver' (which is to say elemental silver) you can buy wherever falls under the realm of nutritional supplements/herbal remedies/not-a-clinically-evaluated-therapeutic-agent and therefor the FDA ignores them (and does not regulate dosing or purity) unless they've been shown to kill you (or cause serious side effects).

Furthermore, I find it absolutely frightening that this where you get your information. First of all, he/she refuses to identify himself by name, cites no evidence supporting his claim (I would hope you noticed that too), demonstrates a clear lack of understanding for how even the titles of published, peer-reviewed research are generated, and has a meager (that's generous) grasp of the proper use of the English language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That supposedly informative website
PERFECT EXAMPLE OF DISINFORMATION: This study accuses Ag+ of negative effects on mammalian cells right in the title. However, throughout the study, the authors subject their fertilized egg to AgNO3 which is silver nitrate, not pure silver ions (Ag+). Classic dis-information smoke and mirrors.

Interestingly, the study starts out by informing the reader that the Russian Space Agency uses electrochemically generated silver ions (Ag+) to purify drinking water at the Mir space station and within the Russian section of the International Space Station. Surprised the authors even mention it.

You can use your ionic silver maker to disinfect water anywhere your travels take you; works especially well if you've been food or water poisoned. If your a traveler, don't leave home without it.
My, god. Were he to demonstrate even the slightest understanding of how titles are applied and how papers are structured, reviewed, and published, he could cobble together something vaguely reasonable.

Please note that I am not discounting you or the effects of colloidal silver products on bacteria.

I urge you to at least look at the (abstracts of) the papers he cites before you accept what he says (or even what I say) on face value.

I would happily explain the processes of publication and the validation of studies to you now if I weren't actively trying not to be late. I hope to come back to this in about 5 hours.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #27
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As the Human race gets weaker, the bugs get stronger. My ole Pappy use to say eatin a little dirt was good for ya. Made your body strong. I agree.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #28
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...No side effects, no drug interactions, safe enough to use as an eye-wash and DEATH to any single celled ORGANISMS. Too much can kill off intestinal flora however we have consumed up to 1 litre per day to kill off water borne organism in India with no intestinal flora repercussions...
Nothing on Earth has "no side effects". Even (drinking) water can have side effects! Even thou is pretty much always safe enough to use an an eye-wash...

But leaving aside that, seems kind of hard to reconcile the killing of "any single celled ORGANISMS" with intestinal flora left intact unless if "too much is used". Perhaps they should write "DEATH to any single celled ORGANISMS when TOO MUCH of it is used" - at least that would explain why intestinal flora is not affected.
I also wonder why they drank only 1 litre of colloidal silver in India. In most of India one would need to drink a lot more than 1 litre a day to survive. Perhaps the missing quantity of water was without water borne organisms? Perhaps the 1 litre colloidal silver was killing the water borne organisms from ALL the daily water intake (all of this, of course without touching intestinal flora)?

Perhaps I should not have jumped into beating this (dead?) horse, but those claims are way too hilarious...
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Old August 11th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #29
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Having a spleen is a very good thing.
I like mine a lot. I even know where it is now.

Last edited by Bill in Houston; August 14th, 2010 at 02:24 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 09:03 PM   #30
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Armadillo, I have no question as to the fact that silver will work. I have even used it and can attest to that, but to claim that ingesting heavy metals is perfectly safe is not responsible. I believe strongly in your right to do it, but please accept that heavy metals are dangerous in high enough quantities. Because they stay after ingestion high quantities can be achieved by long term low dose usage or short term high dose or a combination. I get the AMA and big pharma spending fortunes to support their industry and to discredit all others but Myuu makes a very important point point about scholarship. Millions of people have been hurt by exposure to heavy metals, mostly children. Silver is a risk to reward proposition just like many drug choices. Just keep it away from children and pregnant women or those who will be.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:17 AM   #31
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As the Human race gets weaker, the bugs get stronger. ...
i guess that's why life expectancy has doubled and so have the profits of all those bio-tech wonder-drug companies.

No, really. Have you studied history? Have you ever heard the god-awful health standards of bygone civilizations? The mortality rates? The kind of ailments that wreeked huge losses on large percentages of their population?

I kind of think we've improved in terms of health, for the record.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:02 AM   #32
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LOL. I have a Bowflex, I work out at home. Bacteria eating sweat, bodily secretions, mmmm, tasty stuff. Colloidal Silver?? Come on. Just how tough is it to wash your hands and take a shower once in a while?
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Old August 12th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #33
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There is such a thing as being too clean/ afraid of germs. Constant attempts to de-germ, un-bacterialize and anti-biotic every aspect of life lead to allergies against everything and the rise of 'super bugs' no medication can kill.

Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.

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Old August 12th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #34
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There is such a thing as being too clean/ afraid of germs. Constant attempts to de-germ, un-bacterialize and anti-biotic every aspect of life lead to allergies against everything and the rise of 'super bugs' no medication can kill.

Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.
I don't have my own lap swimming pool.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 07:52 PM   #35
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...
You can go run anywhere...
You are wrong twice here. Replace "You" with "Some" as some people cannot run (in my case a torn knee ligament still gives me a lot of pain when running, but no problems at all on an elliptical machine or skates). Next, replace "anywhere" with "sometimes". Here a quite significant part of the year temperatures are well below -20 (Celsius!). While "you" might find possible to run at these temperatures (neglect here the snow and ice that come with them), I highly doubt that would be more healthy than working out in a gym. At least for quite a significant proportion of the population.
Just be happy about the fact that you can run anywhere and please do not generalize so casually to others.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 12:21 AM   #36
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...Having said that, the only reason why anyone would need to join a gym is if they lack self-motivation and need the group dynamics and 'commitment' that comes with paying monthly fees for silly stuff like treadmills.
You can go run anywhere and a set of weights plus bench shouldn't cost more than $ 100 max.
In all due respect, why don't you confine your comments to things you know something about?

Frankly, i can list dozens of athletes who use the gym to hone their skills, their capabilities, their strength, and their sport to a level where someone would actually bother to know or care what they do, and why they do it. And they go there because it is a place that has most of what they need without having to acquire it themselves.
I am already mad at myself for honoring such a stupid comment with a response. I find it neither funny, intelligent, fair, nor even moderately thoughtful. If you were trying to provoke people, couldn't you pick something a little more interesting than going to the gym?
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Old August 13th, 2010, 03:30 AM   #37
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Default Colloidal silver exits the body via the kidneys/urine

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Originally Posted by PBLsQuad450 View Post
Armadillo, I have no question as to the fact that silver will work. I have even used it and can attest to that, but to claim that ingesting heavy metals is perfectly safe is not responsible. I believe strongly in your right to do it, but please accept that heavy metals are dangerous in high enough quantities. Because they stay after ingestion high quantities can be achieved by long term low dose usage or short term high dose or a combination. I get the AMA and big pharma spending fortunes to support their industry and to discredit all others but Myuu makes a very important point point about scholarship. Millions of people have been hurt by exposure to heavy metals, mostly children. Silver is a risk to reward proposition just like many drug choices. Just keep it away from children and pregnant women or those who will be.
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Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
I like mine a lot. I even know where it is now.

If you think that there is a difference between silver compounds and colloidal silver for more than 15 seconds after the stuff hits your stomach acid, then you've drunk the kool-aid.
Bill and PBLsQuad450 both your your comments clearly indicate how very little you each actually know about colloidal silver. Perhaps you can begin to educate yourself at this link=>

http://www.candidacurezone.com/collo...r-candida.html

EXCERPT => ... Colloidal silver is not approved by the FDA. When taken internally, the most well known [suggested] side effect is argyria, the bluish gray tinting through depositing of sliver salts in the skin, eyes, and internal organs, which can occur in less than a year with frequent use. However, the study was paid for by pharmaceutical interests and the type of silver this individual ingested was a homemade silver chloride (a silver component not associated with colloidal silver), with salt added to the brew. He then applied this brew topically before sitting in a tanning bed to "fix" the silver into his skin. There is a great deal of misinformation caused by the media these days and one need only investigate a little bit to uncover the truth.

If a person is wary of prescription pharmaceuticals, colloidal silver can be a worthwhile and more natural alternative for common cases of Candida such as Candida thrush of the mouth, jock itch or yeast infections. For those concerned about the side effects of colloidal silver, it's recommended as a topical treatment, rinse or mouth wash. Colloidal silver naturally leaves the body via the urine so that there is no buildup in the body. It is one of the oldest forms of medicine that our civilization has used to treat a myriad of health issues. ....

COLLOIDAL SILVER DOES NOT ACCUMULATE IN THE BODY!!!

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Old August 13th, 2010, 04:49 AM   #38
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Hi ALL, Online inline,

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From the NY Times Online Edition, an interesting article on skin infections you might pick up at the gym: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/03/he...WT.mc_ev=click
One of the jobs of journalism is to report on conflict. Sometimes they make conflict because it sells. We love our fears...

In a far worse setting than public gyms, i.e. prisons, MRSA a few years ago was a big concern, and yes there were bad cases. Yet after the sensation, bits of protection like alcohol wipes resulted in MRSA receding below other issues. BTW, Hospitals in some cases did horrible on protection of patients.

In fact I would worry about a Hospital more than a Gym

I did read and save a lot on MRSA since I had a stake interest.

Yours in Skating, Scary-News, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old August 13th, 2010, 04:59 AM   #39
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That website cited even less clinically defensible information than your last link, so I found you a paper that reported a positive outcome with use of small amounts of colloidal silver.

Emphasis is mine.

Quote:
Silver is a xenobiotic absorbed from skin and mucous membranes of the gastrointestinal and urogenital tracts and lungs. It is excreted from the body in the urine and faeces. It was one of the first ‘antibiotics’ in medicine and remains in use in the treatment of burns and wound care. It is also a constituent in heart valve, orthopaedic and dental prostheses. Colloidal silver use declined markedly following the discovery of penicillin and sul- phonamides, reports of argyria (i.e. staining of the skin with silver sulphide and silver selenide) and questionable efficacy. Case reports have described possible nephrotoxicity and neurotoxicity,1 but these have not been substantiated by studies in animal models.2 It has been superseded by silver sulphadiazine and sustained-release dressings in wound care.
Silver is freely available via the Internet and health food shops as an oral preparation. The actual dose in preparations that are available is unregulated and there are continuing risks of agyria. A recent case report has described skin discoloration in an 11-year-old boy with CF following ingestion of colloidal silver to facilitate limit of normal. Fortunately in this case the discol- oration was transient and the silver level normal- ized following discontinuation of therapy.3 In our case we have documented significant improve- ments in well-being that were temporally associ- ated with the use of the drug. However, this is a single anecdote and caution should be used in interpreting the significance of these observations. If there was a direct clinical effect of the silver we speculate that this might have been as a result of a bactericidal action on CF pathogens, as suggested
by the decreased occurrence of B. multivorans on sputum cultures.
Researchers in Denmark have shown that silver is highly effective as a bacteri- cidal agent against biofilm and planktonic models of Gram-negative organisms, including P. aerugi- nosa.4 Currently there is no evidence to support the use of silver products in CF but their potential benefits might be worthy of further exploration. An American study has shown benefits for silver in the treatment of Burkholderia dolosa infection in a murine model of severe lung sepsis.5 Further in vitro studies of the effects of silver on the organ- isms within CF sputa and a better understanding of safe dosaging are essential first steps in explor- ing the potential for this use of this treatment option.
And since you're so insistent that silver won't ionize in a highly acidic environment (i.e. the stomach, which has a pH of ~2), have an abstract for another paperdiscussing the possible therapeutic benefits and concerns with colloidal silver remedies. Note, however, that ingestion risks are relatively low, barring the ingestion of large quantities of silver.

Quote:
Silver has a long and intriguing history as an antibiotic in human health care. It has been developed for use in water purification, wound care, bone prostheses, reconstructive orthopaedic surgery, cardiac devices, catheters and surgical appliances. Advancing biotechnology has enabled incorporation of ionizable silver into fabrics for clinical use to reduce the risk of nosocomial infections and for personal hygiene. The antimicrobial action of silver or silver compounds is proportional to the bioactive silver ion (Ag(+)) released and its availability to interact with bacterial or fungal cell membranes. Silver metal and inorganic silver compounds ionize in the presence of water, body fluids or tissue exudates. The silver ion is biologically active and readily interacts with proteins, amino acid residues, free anions and receptors on mammalian and eukaryotic cell membranes. Bacterial (and probably fungal) sensitivity to silver is genetically determined and relates to the levels of intracellular silver uptake and its ability to interact and irreversibly denature key enzyme systems. Silver exhibits low toxicity in the human body, and minimal risk is expected due to clinical exposure by inhalation, ingestion, dermal application or through the urological or haematogenous route. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to deposition of silver metal/silver sulphide particles in the skin (argyria), eye (argyrosis) and other organs. These are not life-threatening conditions but cosmetically undesirable. Silver is absorbed into the human body and enters the systemic circulation as a protein complex to be eliminated by the liver and kidneys. Silver metabolism is modulated by induction and binding to metallothioneins. This complex mitigates the cellular toxicity of silver and contributes to tissue repair. Silver allergy is a known contra-indication for using silver in medical devices or antibiotic textiles.
And while we're at it, here's a third one that has some information on argyria (or argyrosis).

Quote:
Silver does not pose the toxic threat to humans that is normally present with other heavy metals. It is taken up in the intestine and passed through the blood, liver, and bone marrow, and, ultimately, is excreted in urine. Silver and compounds containing silver (like colloidal silver) can be absorbed into the circulatory system and become deposited in various body tissues. This can lead to argyria, which results in a blue-grayish pigmentation of the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Although this condition does not harm an individual's health, it is disfiguring and usually permanent. Argyria is rare, and mild forms are sometimes mistaken for cyanosis.
What would be really helpful is:
Burrell RE. A scientific perspective on the use of topical silver
preparations. Ostomy Wound Manage. 2003 May;49(5A Suppl):19-24. Review. PubMed
PMID: 12883161.
...but I have to be physically in the library to gain access to it.

This has some nice histology slides if you'd like to actually see what silver deposition looks like.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 01:15 PM   #40
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.

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