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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old March 4th, 2016, 01:16 AM   #1
purlingwood
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Default 220 riedell on sure grip super X outdoor mostly

Am I nuts for putting a sure grip super X 7 inch plate on a riedell 220 boot? Putting atom pulse wheels on.

I got 297 boots with roll line mistral for my indoor skates.

Already ordered the boot. I'd buy cheaper ones for outdoor, but few offer wide sizes at low cost.

Think they'll work ok on tennis courts?

They'll also be my indoor skates when I need more traction at slicker rink floors.

I liked the plates Alot on my huge dominion boots. I like the better stability of the 15 degree truck more, but like those easy edges on the mistrals. I'm a bit speed shy with some moves on those mistrals.

I just spent 1100 on the 297 combo, so a plate 150 or less would be nice.

The super X are free from my dominion boot and I have the better poly cushions on them.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 04:45 PM   #2
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Am I nuts for putting a sure grip super X 7 inch plate on a riedell 220 boot? Putting atom pulse wheels on.

I don't see why you would be nuts.. Not my first choice, but that me, not you.

I got 297 boots with roll line mistral for my indoor skates.

Nice. I had a Mistral back in the day before they got all honked up w/ click actions. I miss those.


Already ordered the boot. I'd buy cheaper ones for outdoor, but few offer wide sizes at low cost.

Yeah, unfortunately wide typically = mo money.

Think they'll work ok on tennis courts?

Depends on the court. I have seen tennis courts that were worse off than a lot of PA back roads. Should be fine on nice smooth ones.

They'll also be my indoor skates when I need more traction at slicker rink floors.

WTF?? You would get shot trying to roll used outdoors outdoor wheels around here. Ya want to swap wheels easy?? Let me put flip axles on yer Mistrals.

I liked the plates Alot on my huge dominion boots. I like the better stability of the 15 degree truck more, but like those easy edges on the mistrals.

I think the Super X is 10 degrees but have never measured.

I'm a bit speed shy with some moves on those mistrals.

So click 'em in a couple and get stable at speed. The start backing them off.


I just spent 1100 on the 297 combo, so a plate 150 or less would be nice.

Man I need to sell you some stuff.

The super X are free from my dominion boot and I have the better poly cushions on them.

Sounds like a plan. Should be fine.. UH what size is your Mistral??
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Old March 9th, 2016, 08:50 PM   #3
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So, the rink called said the plates will fit on the boot, but putting the rear axle on the usual spit on the heel, the front is foward of the ball.

He said it would be hard to steer.

This is a half outdoor, and Hal indoor faster speed and setup with more traction skates. Will put indoor wheels in the winter on them.

Still stick with placement? Or get another plate size and what plates, let's say 150 or less for plates and 30 degree or less kingpin angle. I could see the 45 getting me into trouble outdoor.

Wheels are 65mm atom pulses already bought. Indoor are atom 3.0s, but would love a silicon like wheel like the atom 3.0s, but in regular width. I skate very close and my wheel bite each other with wide wheels.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 11:00 AM   #4
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The mistrals are 170 If I remember right.

Also, for the outdoor saktes plates. I'd like a plate with 8mm axle shafts. I got some good bearing that I cant use anymore on the 7mm mistrals.
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Old March 10th, 2016, 07:02 PM   #5
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So, the rink called said the plates will fit on the boot, but putting the rear axle on the usual spit on the heel, the front is foward of the ball.

And??

He said it would be hard to steer.

Depends on his definition of hard to steer. If you are going outside, a forward front axle is never a bad thing. Don't believe me?? Ask an Aussie. And they do sk8 about on those indoors. I have been sk8ing w/ Scott Corey. He whines about how far "back" my front axles are.
(I won't even get into his sk8s. They terrify me. ) Proper wadjustment of the action should help with hard to steer.

This is a half outdoor, and Hal indoor faster speed and setup with more traction skates. Will put indoor wheels in the winter on them.

Should work.

Still stick with placement? Or get another plate size and what plates, let's say 150 or less for plates and 30 degree or less kingpin angle. I could see the 45 getting me into trouble outdoor.

Uh the DA45 has a 30 king pin Yeah I's stick with the placement. BTW| I would avoid the advice of anyone that gets focused on the back end of the plate.. In my book, these is no such thing as the "usual spit (spot??)on the heel"


Wheels are 65mm atom pulses already bought. Indoor are atom 3.0s,

OK.. I don't pay much attention to Atom wheels. Way too many quality issues over the years and the bang for the buck just is not there. After all, someone has to pay for all the hype..

but would love a silicon like wheel like the atom 3.0s,

Which 3.0?? I had to look that up. And silicone like?? Not following??


but in regular width.

You mean skinny?? I look at regular width as a 42-44mm wheel.


I skate very close and my wheel bite each other with wide wheels.
OH so adjusting to the wheel is the issue. I have more problems with the change in edging behavior than the change in the width.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 03:37 AM   #6
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Which DA45 do you recommend.

-the avenger
-the xk4
-or the avenger

Also, what size do you advise with the Riedell 200 boot in 9W. I like the idea of the bit front forward plate mount.

This guy uses the mounting tool to find where to put the heel. Forgot which one he uses for riedell boots. If you could advise so n so plate size with so n so distance forward of the boot template mark.

If it matters, I tend to be too much on the rear wheels when I skate backwards. So, maybe the rear wheel being a touch forward of the heel more could give me issues, or it could train me to get my weight right...

I have lots of issues with my shoulder twisting too much in relation to my hips, and I bend my hip to compensate too much at times too. Basically I try to keep my head level with the floor, and my hips bend the difference. IF any of these things matter with the decision.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 04:44 PM   #7
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Which DA45 do you recommend.

-the avenger
-the xk4
-or the avenger

Trick question?? Why, the aluminum Avenger will be lighter and it should be fine.

Also, what size do you advise with the Riedell 200 boot in 9W. I like the idea of the bit front forward plate mount.

I wear 9s. I run 160mm (6.3") Avengers, That being said, the 180 (7.1") is what is typically called a "standard" length plate for a size 9 boot.

I just mounted a 7" Pro Line on an old Labeda 377 boot. (Yeah I got talked into it. ) The plate is plenty forward even with the back of the plate @ the edge of the heel, ceement mixer style. The 1/4 in slots in the plate let the owner move it a bit more forward if he wishes..

You mentioned a 170 Mistral?? A 170 Avenger should be fine. What color cushions were in the Mistral??

This guy uses the mounting tool to find where to put the heel.

The Snyder tool will locate the heel on the center line, but has nothing to do with the fore and aft. That is determined by where you want the FRONT axle. Anyone building sk8s that gets all wound up over the location of back end of the sk8 has issues.... and most likely a poor understanding of the whole process.

Here are the instructions from Snyder.

Forgot which one he uses for riedell boots. If you could advise so n so plate size with so n so distance forward of the boot template mark.

The aft location I cannot advise on. It all depends on how far ahead of the center of the ball of the foot you wish to go. The limiting factor on forward will be the relationship between the heel and that rear mounting holes.

If it matters, I tend to be too much on the rear wheels when I skate backwards. So, maybe the rear wheel being a touch forward of the heel more could give me issues, or it could train me to get my weight right...

All of the above. Initially it will give you some issues. You will be able to sort it out. Focus is the key here.

I have lots of issues with my shoulder twisting too much in relation to my hips, and I bend my hip to compensate too much at times too. Basically I try to keep my head level with the floor, and my hips bend the difference. IF any of these things matter with the decision.

Are you looking for top form?? I'm the wrong guy to ask about that. Maybe I can get someone that actually understands that stuff to help. One of our members has experience with art, speed & derby. I'll hit him up and see if he will add his bucks worth.
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Old March 13th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #8
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Doc if hes looking for art skating that would be a good mount, but if he wants the forward mount u are the expert on that. really preference, i never liked the snyder tool as the sides of the boot can alter it as u should use the sole and heel more. hope this helps
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Old March 15th, 2016, 04:50 PM   #9
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Seems like you are looking for the best of both worlds.

I have done some outdoor skating and some artistic. Way more artistic than outdoor. Most of my times has been spent trying to be a speed skater and most recently doing derby stuff for most of the last decade.

I have found that DA45 plates don't really do well outdoors on trails and for distance. This may just be based on my experiences / skill level for outdoor skating. I feel like the DA45's offer too much action and I scrub off a lot of energy due to poor edge control. Maybe more time on them would yield different results. But, for outdoors, I stick with my old school Sure Grip Marathons mounted very forward.

I am not super comfortable with high heel boots like the 297 and 220. I can get by and do OK. For me, deviating too far from a standard mount will land me on my face or on my back. The tall heel requires a form that I am not used to nor super comfortable with. In flat sole boots, I can put the plate just about anywhere and do just fine. I don't know how moving the plate or deviating the mount will affect your skating. With that being said, personally, moving a DA45 plate too far forward makes them feel dead. They become unresponsive and kind of pointless. Other people have the same opinion when they move their very forward mounted 45's to a more traditional location.

Honestly, this may be a case of trial and error as well as a fair amount of patience to take the time to learn how to skate the new setup. You are venturing into uncharted territory for most of us and there aren't many reference points we can use for guidance.

If you go the DA45 route, please go to someone who knows how to build them. Using the Snyder tool gets most plates close enough. But when going to plates that turn with as little input at a 45 requires, the Snyder tool wont quite do the job. IMO, mounting the plates using knowledge and a machinst scale is the only way to go.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 07:27 PM   #10
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I'd call my 2nd pair of skates my outdoor/derby. The nights I am on unsafe places to skate due to low traction and poor other skaters use of the rules of the road. Like a busy sunday afternoon session with those go any direction 6 year olds, or the rink was 2 years overdue on a recoating and 2 months overdue for a good cleaning type of places. Or the nights I want to burn some calories with the shufflers, rather than work on the 3 turns and waltz jumps.

So, what's a good outdoor plate overall then. Lets say I forgot to mention the indoor part at all. The boots is already paid for 220 riedells in 9 wide.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 08:49 PM   #11
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Exclamation Food for thought.

There is an outdoor quad forum. I'd do some snooping around there. Should not take much reading to figure out who knows their stuff.
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Old March 18th, 2016, 03:24 PM   #12
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I'd call my 2nd pair of skates my outdoor/derby. The nights I am on unsafe places to skate due to low traction and poor other skaters use of the rules of the road. Like a busy sunday afternoon session with those go any direction 6 year olds, or the rink was 2 years overdue on a recoating and 2 months overdue for a good cleaning type of places. Or the nights I want to burn some calories with the shufflers, rather than work on the 3 turns and waltz jumps.

So, what's a good outdoor plate overall then. Lets say I forgot to mention the indoor part at all. The boots is already paid for 220 riedells in 9 wide.
It sounds like you want it all.

Id recommend a long ass plate, but get one that has the turning potential to overcome the lengths, which would be a da45.

The probelm with long plates I have skated is that the side to side or toe in toe out starts to matter a lot more the farther the front axle goes from your heel . I positioned my plates for my "all around" style, they work fantastic for me and there is little I cannot do or learn. But even crappy rentals are so much easier to iceberg its ridiculous. They are also easier to balance on 1 front axle and do spins on 1 foot. Less strength and stability required.

The longer a plate is, the less it turns, so the 45deg can be a good friend there. Do not forget that wheels will have a substantial impact on turning and carving. Best example?

Roll a 98A Zombie LOW, compared to a 88A RBT. You will instantly find out what I mean. The lip on a rbt where the hub is not the full width of the urethane allows the wheel to cone some and increases turning potential drastically. The hub being full width in the zombie low makes this coning almost impossible and as such it turns like $#!7 in comparison. But that super firm wheel is faster.

When building an "all around" skate, choose the action you like, the farthest stretches of where you want those axles, and the bias of the plates location to the arch/blade/toe in/toe out.

Ill warn you though, following the "traditional" line too far out the front of the skate without pulling the center of the front in can result in not enough strength where your pinky toe is. Your big toe will have plenty of strength and leverage potential, not so much for that side of your foot when rolling a long plate and say doing the grapevine.


As for traction, that depends immensely on skill as well as maneuverability. We tend to skate ridiculously long plates here on small floors that are fairly loose compared to everywhere else. A few of us skate speed inlines and can keep up with any DA45 on the floor. Our maneuverability is limited by grip available not so much plate length, skate type, etc. There is more to skating than action, footwork is king.

So what plate do you skate best in?
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