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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old April 5th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #1
Rox'n'Roll
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Default Arius toe stop

Hi DocSk8

I've got a new arius plate...problem is I can't get the toe stop to tighten at all. I don't want to over tighten it as I am afraid I'll strip the thread. Any idea why this is happening? Is there any way to safely tighten the toe stop as much as possible without stripping the thread?

Many thanks

Rox
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Old April 6th, 2014, 02:25 AM   #2
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Default ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rox'n'Roll View Post
Hi DocSk8

I've got a new arius plate...problem is I can't get the toe stop to tighten at all. I don't want to over tighten it as I am afraid I'll strip the thread. Any idea why this is happening? Is there any way to safely tighten the toe stop as much as possible without stripping the thread?

Many thanks

Rox

Interesting. I don't use a toes stop but I will try some of the ones I have in the shop in my Arius and see if I have that issue.

Something else to consider. The shank on the stop may be @ (or below) the minimum standard engineering specification for the 5/8-18 UNF thread. Pretty easy to check with a caliper or micrometer.. I don't know the class of fit the manufacturers are aiming for, but if the diameter of the threads on the stop are less than 0.6105, they stop is most likely to blame, especially if the threads in the plate ar @ the large end of the tolerance.


If ya don't have access to precision measuring, try some other stops. It may not be a plate issue @ all. Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #3
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Hi again Doc

I've tried moonwalkers, gumballs, canberra's (?) and rx toe stops - all did the same thing. I'd tighten and tighten but could easily twist round the toe stop with my hand.

HOWEVER...

I've actually managed to find someone else who's had the same problem. They've put me onto a local (NZ) skate mechanic who explained the problem to my husband while I was at training...sooo this is 3rd hand information but it did work! (That is I didn't speak to the skate mech directly)

Apparently there is a design fault with the Arius plate's toe stop hole thread in that it is too shallow. Wiggling the actual toe stop slightly while tightening and also putting a bit of lubricant on the base of the head of the plate bolt that tightens the toe stop somehow does the trick. The skate mech. explained it all but my husband; BUT he was more focuses on getting the toe stop tightened so I would stop nagging him than the actual mechanics of the thing Maybe you can shed some light on why this is cuz I'd like to know...(please)
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Old April 7th, 2014, 06:35 PM   #4
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Default Language barrier??

I was not even thinking about what you seem to be describing in your second post. So, let's clarify.

1) The first one told me the clamp did not tighten the stop once it was in the plate.
2) Your second post tells me you could not screw the stop into the plate until the last sentence.

Then you jump back to the clamp screw.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #5
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Default Only one pair.

I just checked mine. I had no issues installing or removing several different stops. The clamp screws worked fine.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 03:53 AM   #6
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Hi Doc - must be a language barrier because I don't understand your point number 2...! The toe stop could screw into the plate but the clamp wouldn't tighten it (AT ALL!) Maybe the defective ones get sent to NZ :P
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Old April 8th, 2014, 05:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rox'n'Roll View Post
Hi Doc - must be a language barrier because I don't understand your point number 2...! The toe stop could screw into the plate but the clamp wouldn't tighten it (AT ALL!) Maybe the defective ones get sent to NZ :P
OK now I think we are on the same page. I had no issues getting the clamp screw to work..
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Old April 15th, 2014, 09:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I had no issues getting the clamp screw to work..
I have had some difficulty in this area myself.

I only use gumballs so no others to compare but the toe-stop boss on mine seemed loose tolerance at first. I did have to tighten them what feels *almost* excessively hard to get the screw to fully lock the stopper.

I thought they where just stiff (the plate felt like the metal of the boss is very stiff and was resisting the pressure from the screw). I am however able to get them locked down without applying any more force than I can apply by hand on the provided allen wrench so I thought nothing of it.

Doc, your are not like that?
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Old April 16th, 2014, 04:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by llama of death View Post
I have had some difficulty in this area myself.

I only use gumballs so no others to compare but the toe-stop boss on mine seemed loose tolerance at first. I did have to tighten them what feels *almost* excessively hard to get the screw to fully lock the stopper.

I thought they where just stiff (the plate felt like the metal of the boss is very stiff and was resisting the pressure from the screw). I am however able to get them locked down without applying any more force than I can apply by hand on the provided allen wrench so I thought nothing of it.

Doc, your are not like that?

Not particularly.. I really did not notice anything unusual.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 06:30 AM   #10
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I have plugs in mine. Today I'll stick some toe stops in there and report back how my toestop boss feels.

I think we are just worried about breaking our new expensive plates so we tend not to tighten sufficiently in fear of over tightening.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #11
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Pinch bolts breaking under the head and pinch bolt threads stripping out of the plate are not that uncommon.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #12
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Nothing has striped yet, and the bolts appear to have a torque sensitive head which is suppose to fail before breaking the plate (or I assume so from its design).
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Old April 21st, 2014, 07:33 PM   #13
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Update, I have continued to have the stop come loose, under what feels like a lot of tension on the screw.

I finally overtightened last-night and the bolt head, as designed, broke away saving the plate from damage. I as annoying as it is it saves the $350 plate which is nice.

Short term I have thought to perhaps use Teflon tape to make the fit tighter though that may not solve the problem. (I have heard from several people to try thread lock, THIS IS A BAD IDEA! I am nearly certain we would regret using even a blue temporary thread lock on the stopper.)


I am in contact with my point of purchase and Riedell about the problem and some possible short and long term solutions. (I have yet to hear back from Riedell but it was the weekend.)
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Old April 21st, 2014, 07:40 PM   #14
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There is an updated replacement screw that Riedell should be able to provide for you, that is supposed to solve this problem (that's if you had the old version which I'm assuming you probably did based on your difficulties tightening them).
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Old April 21st, 2014, 09:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live2sk888 View Post
There is an updated replacement screw that Riedell should be able to provide for you, that is supposed to solve this problem (that's if you had the old version which I'm assuming you probably did based on your difficulties tightening them).
Updated screw? For the Arius? It's less than 6 months old, no?

*edit 4/21/14 3:30pm* you are correct. They apparently now ship the plates with an updated bolt. Got word back from Riedell and they are shipping the new bolts tmrw morning.

Great service, great plate, very happy customer here.

*supposedly the older design screw was shearing at too low a torsion. The new ones don't have that problem, I am told.*
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 07:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llama of death View Post
Updated screw? For the Arius? It's less than 6 months old, no?

*edit 4/21/14 3:30pm* you are correct. They apparently now ship the plates with an updated bolt. Got word back from Riedell and they are shipping the new bolts tmrw morning.

Great service, great plate, very happy customer here.

*supposedly the older design screw was shearing at too low a torsion. The new ones don't have that problem, I am told.*
I highly doubt the original ones were 'designed' to shear as a method of preventing damage to the plate. Seems more like the hex was punched too deep into the head.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 05:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I highly doubt the original ones were 'designed' to shear as a method of preventing damage to the plate. Seems more like the hex was punched too deep into the head.
Sorry, Doc I am derailing your threads again.

Kennedy, I am moving this tangent to a new thread.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llama of death View Post
Sorry, Doc I am derailing your threads again.

Kennedy, I am moving this tangent to a new thread.
No sweat. Anything of factual technical value is fine here, this was all good..
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Old April 28th, 2014, 10:02 PM   #19
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Default Final update

Kennedy, you where correct the bolt was over drilled on manufacture. The odd flanges I mentioned are in reality burrs left from cutting a round hole to be hexagonal. They are not/where not designed to fail at any specific torque, though I swear I have seen this done somewhere before.

The axis-pin still has an oddly placed groove at the base of the head which still looks like a shear point to me but I am no longer holding onto this accretion.

Wishful thinking on my part. Though I still feel the pressure required to fix the toe-stops into the plate is excessive. I am accustomed to the feel of tightening a toe-stop screw on cast alum SG Competitors. This difference, I suppose, could be chocked up to harder heat treated 6061 Alum resisting bending more than the softer cast alum.

Any sense in that last statment Doc?
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Old April 29th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by llama of death View Post
This difference, I suppose, could be chocked up to harder heat treated 6061 Alum resisting bending more than the softer cast alum.

Any sense in that last statment Doc?
I would say that has some validity.
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