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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old December 22nd, 2015, 10:46 AM   #1
1204RDsk8ter
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Default Plate mounting question ---

My local skating rink did a pretty horrible job of mounting my 400$ prolines to a brand new pair of 395's --- They scuffed them all to hell and didn't even bother to get the plates lined up correctly on my boot --- Not to mention (not even installing all of the bolts that are supposed to be there) ---


So I decided I'm going to buy a new pair of prolines and re mount them myself ---

I have three important questions ---

1. What drill would you recommend best for the job? Hand drill, drill press, etc...

2. What are the best hand tools I can buy to do the job? (The skate currently looks like it was put together with rusty lawnmower tools)

3. Also, what problems will I run into by mounting a slightly smaller plate to a boot that already has mounting holes in it? (For instance I have a 775 Proline and I'm down sizing to a 750 Proline)

Any advice would be appreciated ---

Thanks
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 04:43 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 1204RDsk8ter View Post
My local skating rink did a pretty horrible job of mounting my 400$ prolines to a brand new pair of 395's --- They scuffed them all to hell and didn't even bother to get the plates lined up correctly on my boot --- Not to mention (not even installing all of the bolts that are supposed to be there) ---

Yeah, I looked at yer pix. I'd be all about getting the rink to buy you a replacement set of plates, and then finding someone that actually knows how to do this to get the job done. I have a friend in Hendersonville that is an absolute wizard @ mounting sk8s.

So how many mount screws is the right number?? There are huge number of plates that only have 4 mount holes in them. My Pro Lines (and the various clones) typically only get 4 and those are in the slots. I do my customers the same way. That gives you some latitude to move the plates while you are sorting them out. Once you are happy with where you have the plates, you can drill the 2 front holes and lock the mount in.

So I decided I'm going to buy a new pair of prolines and re mount them myself ---

Heading for a big adventure??

I have three important questions ---

1. What drill would you recommend best for the job? Hand drill, drill press, etc...

Uh, I have 2 hand drills, a drill press, a lathe, a mill, and a Foredom flex shaft grinder. I have never tried to mount plates with a hand drill. Typically I use a 3/8 12 volt Li battery drill, but that grinder sure does come in handy. Especially on remounts.


2. What are the best hand tools I can buy to do the job? (The skate currently looks like it was put together with rusty lawnmower tools)

The tools will depend on the hardware. To be honest, I have never really thought about exactly what tools to use as I have a huge selection and it varies somewhat from job to job.


3. Also, what problems will I run into by mounting a slightly smaller plate to a boot that already has mounting holes in it? (For instance I have a 775 Proline and I'm down sizing to a 750 Proline)

Out of idle curiosity, what size shoes are these going to go on. I have never put a 775 on any pair sk8s. In fact in the last 6 or 7 years a 7.25 was the biggest I ever mounted, on a size 14.

Now as far as the holes?? You will need to fill them if you are going to use conventional hardware, so don't.... use conventional hardware. You really don't want to be rolling with yer nutz hanging out, do ya??

Do some research on Skatelog and find out about tee nut mounting. Tee nuts will let you deal with "extra" holes with a minimum amount of fuss. The only time I fill old holes now is when we are going for a pretty sole and will by dying the end product to cover up all the stains etc.

You should not have any real issues with holes and just dropping one size. The issue is going to be where the old holes are. Just for arguments sake, lets say the front location is fine. Then all you have to deal with is the back holes. 1/4 reduction in size should move the mount holes 1/4 inch in the back. IF the mount screws were in the front of the slots, they would now be in the middle, so no drilling or anything else is necessary. Based on your pix however, you will have some work to do.

Any advice would be appreciated ---

Thanks
Minimum tools: A 6" machinist rule to measure and align the plates, a ball point pen to mark the location of the slots in the plates on the soles. An automatic center pinch to locate the hole location in the marked area. I typically drill the holes @ the front end of the slots, as I seldom move plates backwards. The electric drill and at least 3 bits in stepped sizes to do the holes for tee nuts. Start off with a very small one then increase the hole till you get to the largest. For conventional hardware, a very small bit and a #10 bit (Clearance hole for the 10-32 screws in the usual hardware.) to finish.

The nuts take a 3/8 socket or other wrench. Then you need some way to break off the excess length of the mount screws. The industry actually has a "breakoff" tool. Don't need this stuff it you are doing tee nuts.. Typically you need a 1/8 Allen wrench to drive the screws in and you need the correct length screws.

Note, if this seems complicated it is because I was trying to ensure you had all the details (and most likely missed a few of them) I do this so often I don't really think about all the fine points and I have enough tools to work on much more than roller sk8s. If a tool I have in front of me is not the best for the job, I just go get the one that is.

I have been working on mechanical things since I was 9.. so that would be 1961. I have accumulated a serious tool set over the decades since.

Food for thought. You have a very expensive set up there. Are you sure you are ready to tackle this?? If you are buying tools from scratch, I'm wondering if this is really a good first sk8 project.. There are things hiding in the soles that can be a real pain to deal with. Like the nails in the heels. I have been doing this since 1999 ?? ( I don't really remember any more ) and still have issues with Nails. I really think Riedell has someone in the family making them.

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Old December 24th, 2015, 10:01 AM   #3
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Minimum tools: A 6" machinist rule to measure and align the plates, a ball point pen to mark the location of the slots in the plates on the soles. An automatic center pinch to locate the hole location in the marked area. I typically drill the holes @ the front end of the slots, as I seldom move plates backwards. The electric drill and at least 3 bits in stepped sizes to do the holes for tee nuts. Start off with a very small one then increase the hole till you get to the largest. For conventional hardware, a very small bit and a #10 bit (Clearance hole for the 10-32 screws in the usual hardware.) to finish.

The nuts take a 3/8 socket or other wrench. Then you need some way to break off the excess length of the mount screws. The industry actually has a "breakoff" tool. Don't need this stuff it you are doing tee nuts.. Typically you need a 1/8 Allen wrench to drive the screws in and you need the correct length screws.

Note, if this seems complicated it is because I was trying to ensure you had all the details (and most likely missed a few of them) I do this so often I don't really think about all the fine points and I have enough tools to work on much more than roller sk8s. If a tool I have in front of me is not the best for the job, I just go get the one that is.

I have been working on mechanical things since I was 9.. so that would be 1961. I have accumulated a serious tool set over the decades since.

Food for thought. You have a very expensive set up there. Are you sure you are ready to tackle this?? If you are buying tools from scratch, I'm wondering if this is really a good first sk8 project.. There are things hiding in the soles that can be a real pain to deal with. Like the nails in the heels. I have been doing this since 1999 ?? ( I don't really remember any more ) and still have issues with Nails. I really think Riedell has someone in the family making them.

Thank you very much for the reply.

This was all much needed information.

Something you said really interested me --- You said the largest proline you mounted was a 725 to a size 14 boot --- I currently have a 775 mounted to a 11.5 haha ---

Yes the 395 does run a size large but I still find this astounding... And I'd say its the reason I feel so clumsy. (feels like I'm dragging long steel blocks around the rink compared to my others)

How much smaller is a 725 compared to a 775? It sounds like I might want to go with the 725 rather than the 750.

As far as being ready to tackle mounting my own skates, I really don't know... how big of a deal is it? Completely different topic but I build computers, I have no idea how that relates to this other than the fact that if I can build a computer, how hard could mounting a pair of skates be?

How badly could I mess something up while drilling the boot? I'm confident with everything else except drilling into the bottom of a 330$ boot.
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Old December 24th, 2015, 07:23 PM   #4
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Thank you very much for the reply.

This was all much needed information.

I hope it helps.

Something you said really interested me --- You said the largest proline you mounted was a 725 to a size 14 boot --- I currently have a 775 mounted to a 11.5 haha ---

Nice sk8board. I actually had a pair of 8.00s in the shop @ one time. Rode one like a sk8board. (No never mounted it. It got surgically altered in another experiment. )

Yes the 395 does run a size large but I still find this astounding...

Let's stop right there. Adults (who typically are done growing their feet) do not need growing room. Why are the a size big?? You actually have 0.33" inches of slop in the fit, which does not help your sk8ing one whit. If you got them that big because your feet are wide, ditch them now and get a properly fit (wide) set of 10 1/2s. Yeah, it costs more but you feet will love ya for it.

And I'd say its the reason I feel so clumsy. (feels like I'm dragging long steel blocks around the rink compared to my others)

I'll go with that.

How much smaller is a 725 compared to a 775? It sounds like I might want to go with the 725 rather than the 750.

Subtract 7.25 from 7.75. Looks like 1/2 half inch to me. BTW 1 shoe size is 0.33 inches... and the actual shoe size is no where near as important as matching the plate to your feet. There is an arch length measurement on the Brannock device for a reason. Shoe size is related to the overall length of your foot. Toes can have different lengths in the same size shoe which means the ball of the foot is not necessarily where the "average" shoe would have you believe it was.

As far as being ready to tackle mounting my own skates, I really don't know... how big of a deal is it?

How high is up?? You already have a pair of sk8s that were "mounted" and not real well @ that. It is easy to eff it up if you do not know what pitfalls to avoid.

NOTE: To all yinz jagoffs that think I'm over exaggerating this. It's only easy until you do something wrong and eff it up. The folks that built the OPs sk8s thought it was "easy" too. Huge difference between hanging plates on boots.. and doing it correctly.

Completely different topic but I build computers, I have no idea how that relates to this other than the fact that if I can build a computer, how hard could mounting a pair of skates be?

See above. The degree of difficulty is directly proportional to the end results desired.

How badly could I mess something up while drilling the boot? I'm confident with everything else except drilling into the bottom of a 330$ boot.

Again, how high is up?? I have had to "salvage" do it yourself sk8s on a couple of occasions. One required a trip back to Riedell to get the soles redone. BTW my buddy in Hendersonville has responded to your post in the quad forum.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 01:31 AM   #5
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Again, how high is up?? I have had to "salvage" do it yourself sk8s on a couple of occasions. One required a trip back to Riedell to get the soles redone. BTW my buddy in Hendersonville has responded to your post in the quad forum.
When I said the 395 runs a size large, compared to standard shoe size it runs a size large, or at least that's what the guy at LPS told me. However the boot fits very well.

I no idea how the plate sizing worked --- I now see how I ended up in this mess to begin with ---

Is there a way to contact you if I decide to have someone put them together for me? You have been doing this a long time and everyone agrees that you do a good job on skates. I might rather have a professional get the job done right the first time, instead of needing someone to salvage my mistake later down the road.

Merry Christmas --- hope you have a great one!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 07:36 AM   #6
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Yes the 395 does run a size large but I still find this astounding... And I'd say its the reason I feel so clumsy. (feels like I'm dragging long steel blocks around the rink compared to my others)
Hmmm.. I have three pairs of 395s and none of them is a size large. Maybe you really aren't an 11-1/2?

And the long blocks you're dragging around are aluminum, not steel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1204RDsk8ter View Post
How badly could I mess something up while drilling the boot? I'm confident with everything else except drilling into the bottom of a 330$ boot.
Ha! Good one. Would you like the list alphabetically or in descending order of cost?

PS: Merry Christmas Doc!!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 07:56 AM   #7
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Hmmm.. I have three pairs of 395s and none of them is a size large. Maybe you really aren't an 11-1/2?

My 11.5 395 fits the same as any of the 12.5 shoes I have laying around the house. So theoretically if I had purchased a 12.5 395 boot, it would've been one size too large for my foot.


And the long blocks you're dragging around are aluminum, not steel.

Aircraft aluminum (but they still feel like long steel blocks)


Ha! Good one. Would you like the list alphabetically or in descending order of cost?

PS: Merry Christmas Doc!!
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Old December 25th, 2015, 04:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1204RDsk8ter View Post
When I said the 395 runs a size large, compared to standard shoe size it runs a size large, or at least that's what the guy at LPS told me. However the boot fits very well.

None of my Riedells (I wear a 9 and measure the same ) fit differently than measured. In fact, I size Riedells for customers straight off the Brannock device.

I no idea how the plate sizing worked --- I now see how I ended up in this mess to begin with ---

If you spend a lot of time reading through the quad forum, you will find many heated discussions on the "correct" way to size and mount sk8s. Here is the truth. There is no such thing as the "correct" way. Some methods work better than others. I have seen sk8rs do phenomenal things on mounts that would put me into the wall, both from poor alignments and incorrect sizing choices.

The bottom line is people adapt. The problem when moving from mount style to another is not the mount (yeah, blame it on the sk8s) but the sk8r trying to use the new sk8s like their old ones. Most folks 1) adapt and 2) decide they like the new mount better. Some refuse to reprogram their muscle memory and the new mount will never work for them. Some folks have physical issues that make that reprogramming difficult.


Is there a way to contact you if I decide to have someone put them together for me?

PM is fine, we can go from there.

You have been doing this a long time and everyone agrees that you do a good job on skates. I might rather have a professional get the job done right the first time, instead of needing someone to salvage my mistake later down the road.

I do try to do it right.

Merry Christmas --- hope you have a great one!

Same to you. Here is hoping the new year will find resolution to your sk8 issues.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 05:30 PM   #9
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Hmmm.. I have three pairs of 395s and none of them is a size large. Maybe you really aren't an 11-1/2?

Or maybe he is 11 1/2 in a sizing system that does not match up to the Riedell sizing. Ever since Riedell started using the Beta last on the 395s the new ones are loose on me. I just ordered a pair for a lady in the Alpha last since she was a c width, like me.

And the long blocks you're dragging around are aluminum, not steel.

I noted a comment about "aircraft aluminum". Beware that term. Many of the less exotic alloys are used in aircraft construction, hence they are "aircraft aluminum". 6061 (aka butter) is "aircraft aluminum". 2024 is "aircraft aluminum" as are the majority of the 7XXX alloys.

Ha! Good one. Would you like the list alphabetically or in descending order of cost?

Ohh, could you spread sheet that??

PS: Merry Christmas Doc!!
Hope you and your crew of ladies have a great holiday.
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