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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old May 19th, 2016, 11:46 AM   #1
Goldiloks
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Default Help me choose a wheel?

Hi chaps,

I will be rolling outside on tennis court / asphalt, and would like some advice on a wheel that would suit me for rollerdancing, spins, and small jumps. I'm 80kg, so on the heavier side of things... hoping to shed some of that though!

(I have Hyper Rollos and Krypto Route 62s already, both 78a)

Can anyone offer some comparisons or reviews on these wheels, for my needs?

Suregrip Aerobic
Suregrip Motion
Radar Tofu
Radar Energy
Sims Street Snakes
Atom Pulse

Or should I try something harder?

Thank you
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Old May 19th, 2016, 06:49 PM   #2
maltoch
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i suppose you prefer smaller wheels for agility and you don t ride a lot on street.
80kg..i suppose you re european because of kilogrammes .
80 is the limit for a harder wheel.

i would try the new krypto route 62 green 83a and with the same design and about the dame hardness...the krypto panane ...many colors in 62mm too but a little bit harder ...84a.
if you want something softer...the cruise white in 62mm but 78a.

route 62 old design have a bad design for what you do...i think rollo must be better....i tested them but too soft for me....i m near 100kg.
sims snake that i tested a long time ago have a smaller contact patch than route and rollo...and i didn t like them....but a lot of guys in france loved these wheels ..like a myth....hyper rollo, sims and kryptoto where very famous....but i was faster with my 70mm wheels ...always...so...
on my own, cruise wheel design is the best for quad skate, with its round edges....cruise, new route and paname have the same look.

wheel is a personal choice....personnaly i found for outdoor and recreational skating ...the new route 70 in 83a red are the best....by far, better than velocity race aka...

i ordered bones reds, skf zz, and roll line speed max abec9 micro bearings 8 balls.

bones redz roll better than skf but the speedmax roll line i mounted today seems to be very very impressive....
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Old May 20th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #3
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@maltoch - The no longer available Velocity Race wheels in 65mm size were never appropriate outdoors for 100Kg (220LB.) skaters, because their large 49mm hubs made for too thin of a urethane layer to handle the stress.

If you are saying that Krypto 70mm wheels in 83A are better performing than 70mm V-R wheels, then that could only be for certain surfaces, your level of weight, and the amount of rolling surface roughness involved.

At 83A the Krypto wheel firmness would match up well with smother surfaces. The softer V-R wheel with a lighter weight skater will easily outperform any tiny hub Krypto wheels on medium or better rolling surface quality skating for skaters at 80Kg and under

Tennis courts are usually very smooth, so a firmer than 78A wheel makes sense in the 80-84 range. A larger hub will help too.

Narrower wheels roll better outdoors, but if you want to have your suspension stiff and be rolling on the wheel edges a lot, then you want to have a somewhat wider wheel with a decent amount of a protruding lip.

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Old May 20th, 2016, 05:44 AM   #4
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http://www.skatesus.com/store/produc...oducts_id=545a

for what he would want to do....
he doesnt need top speed but fast acceleration..62 is ok...65 will be too much for dancing and spining on tennis court.
83a i think is better because he will use them on smootb surface most of the time and is weight is ok for 83a...if he was 70 kg, i said to keep wheels in 78a.
cruise design that is about the same but not exactly the same on suregrip motion, aerobic, atom pulse with its round edges on 2 sides is better for doing fast movements in corners, better for dancing and spining....i dance better with round edge wheels...for spinnings, i never found the tip to spin more than turns. for jumps...it depends of what kind of jump...but the weight of skates is really important of you jump something on a flat surface...with my weight i didn do some high jump on flat surface...

large hub like on velocit race for jump....someone that do high jump will destroy them very fast because of the hub itself...

i repeat wheel is a personal choice...i tested all the wheels people talked and supposed to be better than the other....i found by far that the new krypto route in 83a is better, has a good and true high rebound quality...than any other wheel....
habitually, when i test a part, the first meters tell me what i will discover in 10 kms....

and sometime i m wrong.....last time i said 627 skf zz seems to be better than bones redz....but in fact no...
the speedmax i bought that others french quad skaters talked i just bought roll smooth with no effort very very better...
so i test...i compare...and that s my personal opinion and someone else can say no you re wrong but without testing wheel and bearings ...how he can?

i know the rollo are better for him actually because rollo has sharped edges that is not best but old route have too much exterior urethane that doesn t help and rollo are leightweight than route.

a link...interresting fact about speedmax i discovered after i bought them...guy says they are like 82 snyder bearings i didn t know...was too young
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Old May 20th, 2016, 05:51 AM   #5
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i talked about these bearings but i don t know they are good for jumps...bones redz are enough...but people that usually do jumps like on trocadero in paris used stronger bearings ...zz bezrings.

armadillo i send you other links...that s really personal choice...people use often in france soccer shoes...i prefer ice choose...
the number 1 plates in france were always sold by hawaii surf...that was their homemade plates..i always used dikers plates...unkown in usa....

people are only all ok for 2 things...you want to roll faster...use 70 mm wheels when you can and harder wheels more around 82a if you are heavyweight.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 01:21 AM   #7
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I don't think body weight is an issue (for the op) for "any" wheel other then say radar wheels (soft hubs), I don't think the roll line helium wheel's hub, is inferior (actually it's superior) and I've never heard of a roll line helium, hub failing, I do hear conjecture of the urethane getting cut's, (I have three very used set's no cut's), by "speed skaters", well, using them for dancing and exercising on a court is a best case scenario, I mounted up a new set today and with my Trucks (aftermarket D/A45's) had wheel bite for a 1/2 hour (it was weird,and a lot of work to keep moving), 64mm, great hub, outstanding urethane and a slim footprint, putting a set on a roll line plate is a win win situation, but, a 59mm or less wheel is a good learning tool, 56mm with a 10 or 18 degree action is fun and a great way to learn.
The thicker the urethane the more loss of energy, and the more weight carried, and wheel weight is the most critical to diminish.

Thick urethane only steals energy, it's doesn't have a "wave" between hub and ground that mystically gives back anything, it simply uses energy compressing and un-compressing, just like cushions, less is more
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
I don't think body weight is an issue (for the op) for "any" wheel other then say radar wheels (soft hubs), I don't think the roll line helium wheel's hub, is inferior (actually it's superior) and I've never heard of a roll line helium, hub failing, I do hear conjecture of the urethane getting cut's, (I have three very used set's no cut's), by "speed skaters", well, using them for dancing and exercising on a court is a best case scenario, I mounted up a new set today and with my Trucks (aftermarket D/A45's) had wheel bite for a 1/2 hour (it was weird,and a lot of work to keep moving), 64mm, great hub, outstanding urethane and a slim footprint, putting a set on a roll line plate is a win win situation, but, a 59mm or less wheel is a good learning tool, 56mm with a 10 or 18 degree action is fun and a great way to learn.
The thicker the urethane the more loss of energy, and the more weight carried, and wheel weight is the most critical to diminish.

Thick urethane only steals energy, it's doesn't have a "wave" between hub and ground that mystically gives back anything, it simply uses energy compressing and un-compressing, just like cushions, less is more
Here we go again. : /

If you were right about the roll line style wheels being so fast and good, why do long boarders who are after downhill speed use wheels with such thick urethane that "steals energy"?

Sometime tomorrow Ill be taking the roll lines vs atom poisons vs road hogs on several different surfaces. Finally got some time off work.

This "wave" is real. Its what happens when you roll over a surface. I never said that it propelled you. What happens is the urethane absorbs imperfect road and skating surfaces of outdoors, smoothing out the ride immensely. The roll lines cannot do this because the urethame is so flippin thin. The moment it starts to deflect/deform, its already at its limit for compression, everything else becomes vertical lift or it damages the urethanes crosslinking. Ontop of that the urethane doesnt seem to be very good, just from dropping a wheel you can see the energy potential of a wheel to maintain its roll. Good wheels bounce like crazy. Poor quality urethane wheels don't.

The wave of pressure and deflection travels around the wheel and inwards to the hub, since the wheels have ridges inside there if the urethane is thin , even on smooth ground mind you its like riding over a bunch of small ridges. This again falls back to the urethane being too thin. Simply put , the compressive wave has nowhere to go. If you watch iceroad truckers, you can see how compressive waves work as a semi drives across a road of ice. Granted its not the exact same, but the wave is there and the radial energy absorbed and ultimately consumed by such a thin layer is more in the roll lines than in any other wheel I have skated on outdoors.

To be fair ill test them thoroughly tomorrow.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 10:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Here we go again. : /

If you were right about the roll line style wheels being so fast and good, why do long boarders who are after downhill speed use wheels with such thick urethane that "steals energy"?

Sometime tomorrow Ill be taking the roll lines vs atom poisons vs road hogs on several different surfaces. Finally got some time off work.

This "wave" is real. Its what happens when you roll over a surface. I never said that it propelled you. What happens is the urethane absorbs imperfect road and skating surfaces of outdoors, smoothing out the ride immensely. The roll lines cannot do this because the urethame is so flippin thin. The moment it starts to deflect/deform, its already at its limit for compression, everything else becomes vertical lift or it damages the urethanes crosslinking. Ontop of that the urethane doesnt seem to be very good, just from dropping a wheel you can see the energy potential of a wheel to maintain its roll. Good wheels bounce like crazy. Poor quality urethane wheels don't.

The wave of pressure and deflection travels around the wheel and inwards to the hub, since the wheels have ridges inside there if the urethane is thin , even on smooth ground mind you its like riding over a bunch of small ridges. This again falls back to the urethane being too thin. Simply put , the compressive wave has nowhere to go. If you watch iceroad truckers, you can see how compressive waves work as a semi drives across a road of ice. Granted its not the exact same, but the wave is there and the radial energy absorbed and ultimately consumed by such a thin layer is more in the roll lines than in any other wheel I have skated on outdoors.

To be fair ill test them thoroughly tomorrow.
It's NOT compressive, but I can confirm that the "squirm" wave is real, and since urethane does not compress, if the TENSION stress developed from the pinch against the hub goes too high, the urethane will squirm too far circumfrentially, and then the debonding of the urethane starts to happen, along with internal damage, just as mort indicates.

Once the debonding gets wide enough it quickly spreads across the wheel and eventually around it as well. The wheels start to make a horrible sound and they suck up rolling energy too. I have plenty of RD Twisters with this debonded condition.

Attempts to re-glue them onto hubs proved futile. Perhaps a non-solvent based urethane is needed. I haven't resumed that project yet.

On a totally debonded wheel, it feels like driving a car on a flat tire. The ring of urethane starts to be dragged all the way around the hub after so many revolutions (if hub has no protruding grip ribs).

Urethane gets damaged internally and swells up by ~5% starting at edges.
I have watched a lot of wheels with too-thin urethane layer cycle through this degradation process. All had 49mm size hubs and started new at 65mm or less urethane to give 7.5-8mm layer thickness. By the time they wore down to around 62-63mm size, death was knockin' on their doors.

IMO, 10mm should be the minimum thickness for urethane layer of outdoor wheels, and that will not give much life for them either. For 500+ miles of service and the typical urethane wear that will give, a better target would be 12mm of urethane layer, so that one or two mm can be lost without sinkung below 10mm.

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Old May 21st, 2016, 10:26 AM   #10
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before big open hub on wheels, it only exists basic wheel...like cruise or impulse witha simple hub...when wheel was used at middle size...the urethane went out of the hub.
especially when guys slided with them on rough surface ou did a lot of parrell braking at contest.
i ve seen krypto rollo....old models...not the same print on side that now...same quality ..i don t k ow and kryptoto or krypto kryto red one like krypto renthal..died the same manner.

but i ve seen more problem on inline wheels that i used very very fast...i succeed to destroy and used a inline wheel to the hub in 2 weeks...chewing gum urethane like a 70a urethane, first day i had to mix the wheels...too much used.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:53 AM   #11
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@ursle, have you had a chance to try Adonis wheels?

Physics aside, seems like this wheel business is very much personal preference. If I was more flush, I'd buy a whole bunch of wheels and try them out
I'm sure each one has its merits.

I'm just after a smooth agile roll for my weight, on asphalt. There won't be debris hopefully, and I'll be skating when it's dry. I don't need to go at light speed, as I'll be dancing on the spot or moving at a slow roll. I want to shuffle, toe jam, spin a little.... And go from there. No hockey stops but t-stops yes. Big jumps no, transitional hops and little jumps, yes.

Last edited by Goldiloks; May 21st, 2016 at 08:39 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 08:04 AM   #12
maltoch
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you can t compare wheels if you didn t test them.

and nobody like the same wheel.

it takes a long time to find your best wheels...you need to spend money...

personnaly, the new route is the best in my application...but can understand someone else prefers another model.

i tried last years, zombie hawgs, rd twister, route, hawaii k, radar flyer, classic k....and many others the next 20 years....
surely, the design and the durometer of new route same as the first 70mm krypto retro k i used have an influence...
somebody that used at first a flatter design like hyper rollo for example would prefer this kind of wheel...
you change of design and maybe you feel you cant push on your feets the same...not the same reaction...

for me round edge give a final squish that add some power and it aids for sharp turning or parralell braking....if you stop in T position...nothing matter.

never tested the helium but will not buy them...too small for me...i can push easily 70mm wheels so...

a little bit harder wheel will help in dancing and he doesn t need a mpre than 62 mm wheel...
remember he wants to jump.
if he jumps currently stairs of more than 1 meter, he surely can destroy the hub and when he will contact the floor...the energy will not be absorb by urethane partially but by the body...

we can discuss a long time....nobody will say the same...

the only solution will be to do a meeting together....and test all the combo.
but personnaly i never say a quad skater to use the wheels you see on pics...

ok rd twister aka vr is not too bad...and not really better than radar flyer but there is a major problem...the bearing...no real choice..and too small contact patch for me.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 01:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldiloks View Post
@ursle, have you had a chance to try Adonis wheels?

Physics aside, seems like this wheel business is very much personal preference. If I was more flush, I'd buy a whole bunch of wheels and try them out
I'm sure each one has its merits.

I'm just after a smooth agile roll for my weight, on asphalt. There won't be debris hopefully, and I'll be skating when it's dry. I don't need to go at light speed, as I'll be dancing on the spot or moving at a slow roll. I want to shuffle, toe jam, spin a little.... And go from there. No hockey stops but t-stops yes. Big jumps no, transitional hops and little jumps, yes.
Looks like the adonis only goes down to 88a in hardness, still worth a try, they might wear faster than an 82a wheel but I bet they would be fun. I had some 92a wheel outdoors one time, they worked excellently but I could see material melting off them, one half hour skate and they were much smaller, and the skating surface was green (the color of the urethane)

I used to skate the roll line matrix plate, I used a 56mm 82a wheel made by earthwing, they were the bee's knees, as they are skateboard wheels I had to grind down one side to make them work(rubbed on the inside), and they turned well, but the matrix plate as excellent as it is became boring, so I moved to D/A45 plates, and a tiny wheel with D/A45's isn't necessary, so the 64mm roll line helium is now the bee's knees.

(Nobody said the helium is a race wheel, it's a wheel, very light weight, very sturdy hub, when they wear out, get some more)

maltoch
In '78 I was in LA and a guy was on the "street" selling wheels and cushions (cloud), his name was Tom Sims (passed away last year, sadly) and the wheels were GYRO, yellow 80'ish,A with an excellent chro-molly hub, boy did I put some hours in on them, actually bought two set's, had a friend visiting and he needed a set to skate with me

Last edited by ursle; May 22nd, 2016 at 12:35 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:08 PM   #14
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http://www.tailtap.com/gyrowheels.html

gyro 62mm 97a....should we consider these wheels as quad wheel.?

i must say the idea of metal hub is a good idea...but for the rest.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 08:56 PM   #15
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Something more down these lines



yer quotes...

i tested sims 15 years ago and velvet or two tones one already existed but i ride them 1 day and sold them...too small diameter but too little contact patch...straight edges and bad urethane so....the myth is dead in my spirit.

you know the sims wheels were used for snakes boards, uk boards.....weren't produced at first for classic skate boards and quads at all...
i think the success came from the wheel choice in the 90s ....compared to krypto impulse or the beginning of cruise, maybe they fought with them and krypto rollo and they were ok....but for me the quality isn t really better than an poor impulse wheel.

large hub like on velocity race for jump....someone that do high jump will destroy them very fast because of the hub itself...
SHOW ME

I'm just saying, in in '78, Sims released the first great outdoor wheel, today, a large hub, thin urethane are the norm, but 40 years ago, it was good....

Last edited by ursle; May 22nd, 2016 at 12:54 AM.
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