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Old July 28th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #161
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Hi understanding and supportive friends,

Today I met with my friend, Donna. She will be leaving for nationals tomorrow. She is skating novice B figs I think and Masters solo. She got one last practice in today and invited me to go with her. That was a couple of hours ago and the pain has started to set in..........It was great though. I followed her on a tango of some kind, I did some figures, rockers???, brackets, traced the loop circle and tried some jumps and sit spin. She did a couple seconds long clips for me. Here is one of me doing a waltz, loop, mapes combo. Boy it is going to take some time to lose this weight and move my body the way my brain thinks it should
Still way excited to be back on the floor, literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wchHaPATRtc
Cheryl...

Deeeammmmnn girl! For being AWOL for 20 years, there's still something in muscle memory! While the face and upper body was dark, those white boot stuck out! The jumps weren't bad at all considering. Hell you could win any "B" event with that clean skating! LOL! Pity they probably wouldn't let you skate it-- messy how those trips to Nationals can be in later life!
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Old July 29th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #162
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Last night while I was practicing, I realized why my freeleg was hitting the ground on landing. I am using it to CHECK, stop my rotation. My subconscience is realizing that I have too much mass to stop with a normal check. I am also doing my mapes with my toe off crossed behind my employed foot. Very bad takeoff. I'm twisting with my hips and shoulders before leaving the ground, but at least my wheels are maintaining the edge and not cheating (the only good thing). I realize now that I am way to heavy to do the proper technique. It is physics (energy needed to initiate rotation and stop rotation) vs my physical strength. Now I have to think a bit as to continuing to attempt to jump at my weight and possibly pick up bad habits or to wait till my weight drops. I'll render a decision later, after some thought.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 12:15 AM   #163
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After my first practice, about an hour of going round the figure circles, some dance, and some loop circles and a few jumps and spins, I went home ok. But, I went out to water my garden and my left kneecap was yelling at me. Then my right knee got a little stiff. Called my father-n -law, retired chair of the uncc exercise phisiology and kinesiology(sp). Told him what I was doing and he sort of chewed me out. He said to give myself 3 months of just skating (no jumps), and then start to get myself back in shape. He said even though I am doing what I consider beginner stuff, my 47 year old body needs much more conditioning. So, I am taking this to heart and knees and sticking with the figures and dance for a good while....even though it is gonna drive me crazy!!! Brakes are on! So, Jim, hang in there. Just keep at it!
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Old July 30th, 2008, 01:04 AM   #164
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Cheryl,
Yes, I find that the mind is willing but the body needs time to catch up. Take his advice... I am on heavy does of calcium, glucosamine, msm, vitamin D, magnesium and a vitamin meant for someone my age. I really don't think I will try sit spins, because of the possibility of injury to the knee. I can do spread eagles very nice on both edges, so I do have some flexibility. I do suggest take it easy till your body gets strength.
I remember when I first started skating. I would wake up at night after skating 12 hour days with extreme muscle cramps. Not a fun thing.

Best of luck,
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Old July 30th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #165
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After my first practice, about an hour of going round the figure circles, some dance, and some loop circles and a few jumps and spins, I went home ok. But, I went out to water my garden and my left kneecap was yelling at me. Then my right knee got a little stiff. Called my father-n -law, retired chair of the uncc exercise phisiology and kinesiology(sp). Told him what I was doing and he sort of chewed me out. He said to give myself 3 months of just skating (no jumps), and then start to get myself back in shape. He said even though I am doing what I consider beginner stuff, my 47 year old body needs much more conditioning. So, I am taking this to heart and knees and sticking with the figures and dance for a good while....even though it is gonna drive me crazy!!! Brakes are on! So, Jim, hang in there. Just keep at it!
Cheryl,

Do me a favor and pick up the phone back to the FIL again and ask him a question for me, please?

The Qs is: Is there any current and solid literature regarding adults skating? Is there any current and solid literature on the topic of adult conditioning exercises or a program that could be used for skaters? please?

I've seriously considered proposing a program for the Vegas Seminar regarding training Adult Skaters. Most coaches understand kids. But they are clueless about training adults. I have a program based on fundamental exercises done previously that will work, but I'd love to have solid literature to back it up if I presented it.

Mary Lu
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Old July 30th, 2008, 10:42 PM   #166
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Hi Mary Lu,
Here is what my FIL wrote:

Cheryl, I don't know any exercise scientists who have expert knowedge about skating. Your sponsoring organization should be able to provide knowledge sources. You might try the American Association for Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Dance (AAHPERD) and the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM). In the meantime I suggest that you and other middle aged adults warm up with light skating followed by stretching. Although there is some argument about when to stretch, by far most of the people I know recommend after a light aerobic workout which light skating would be. As for your workout, go slightly beyond what is comfortable to you. When the uncomfortable level becomes comfortable, increase your intensity again to what is slightly uncomfortable, etc. Re the jumps, I would avoid them altogether until I had reached a high level of general conditioning. Then, use the comfortable/ uncomfortable progression as presented above. Again, make this a long term project. The old saw, no pain-no gain is a set-up for injury, especially among middle-age and older adults. You need a formal workout to advance your conditioning. Aerobic activity followed by stretching will help you adapt to your muscular and cardiovascular needs. Let me know if you find any good knowledge sources. See ya' tomorrow. Harvey
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Old July 30th, 2008, 11:28 PM   #167
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PBS years ago did a program on the application of sports medicine to the elderly. It may be available for purchase. If so it would probably give you names and places to check out for info. As for stretching, a number of years ago there were those in the medical community who were advocating stretching at multiple times of the day rather than before exercise. The claim was that this stretched the body better and provided some protection from injury at all times rather than just when you were prepared for it. For building strength and fitness there are those who swear by the amino acid Arginine for building muscle. I think that it has been prescribed for rebuilding bones as well. I have used it to recover from long term physical exhaustion and it seemed to work. I used it at levels well below what I have seen others recommend but above what is stated on the labels of the bottle.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 08:55 AM   #168
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Hi Mary Lu,
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheryl murphy View Post
Here is what my FIL wrote:

Cheryl, I don't know any exercise scientists who have expert knowledge about skating. Your sponsoring organization should be able to provide knowledge sources. You might try the American Association for Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Dance (AAHPERD) and the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM). In the meantime I suggest that you and other middle aged adults warm up with light skating followed by stretching. Although there is some argument about when to stretch, by far most of the people I know recommend after a light aerobic workout which light skating would be. As for your workout, go slightly beyond what is comfortable to you. When the uncomfortable level becomes comfortable, increase your intensity again to what is slightly uncomfortable, etc. Re the jumps, I would avoid them altogether until I had reached a high level of general conditioning. Then, use the comfortable/ uncomfortable progression as presented above. Again, make this a long term project. The old saw, no pain-no gain is a set-up for injury, especially among middle-age and older adults. You need a formal workout to advance your conditioning. Aerobic activity followed by stretching will help you adapt to your muscular and cardiovascular needs. Let me know if you find any good knowledge sources. See ya' tomorrow. Harvey


Cheryl,

Give Harvey a kiss for me when you see him!

He's absolutely right on the program to get in shape. Fitness is a moving target for adults. For some of us the target's higher-- others much lower. Add in all the variables of age, starting weight, cardio, muscular, and the technique within a given sport and it's a Chinese menu to get what a specific skater needs.

I loved that he talked about stretching out. Tell him for me that's what the kiss is for! Stretching out properly and regularly is one of the biggest bugs about the training I've seen in training the kids today. Most coaches are totally clueless about it. Adults it is really a bigger issue and getting them to stretch warmed up and slowly to avoid injuries.

Tell him our association is not currently on top of having a sports medicine expert. (We wish.) I'll check out AAHPERD and ACSM, as well as any literature I can extract from the US Figure Skating and the USOC. Any decent source is better than none!

In college I did about 12-14 hours of Sports Medicine and Training classes, long before they actually called it Exercise Science. If I had thought I ever could have made a living out of it... I would have taken it on as a career.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 09:06 AM   #169
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PBS years ago did a program on the application of sports medicine to the elderly. It may be available for purchase. If so it would probably give you names and places to check out for info. As for stretching, a number of years ago there were those in the medical community who were advocating stretching at multiple times of the day rather than before exercise. The claim was that this stretched the body better and provided some protection from injury at all times rather than just when you were prepared for it. For building strength and fitness there are those who swear by the amino acid Arginine for building muscle. I think that it has been prescribed for rebuilding bones as well. I have used it to recover from long term physical exhaustion and it seemed to work. I used it at levels well below what I have seen others recommend but above what is stated on the labels of the bottle.
Nostalgic,

You are absolutely correct that a properly stretched (and toned) body is less prone to injury no matter what the age. If a body is stretched in regular schedule the effects remain long term-- for a variety of reasons.

We did this with my 82yr old MIL who as inactive MS-- and between the stretching, light weight training and walking (her cardio), I suspect she's going to outlive me.

I honestly don't know a lot about Arginine. We should ask fpinto around here, to comment... as he's a Trainer. I also could ask the the husband Dr. Doug to dig out his ACCP books.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 01:47 PM   #170
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On a great note: We (the place where I skate) are about to form a club. It was stated last night at practice. Sortly we will be getting our charter. We are starting out with about 20 little ones (this is my best guess on age) about an average age of 8 years old. Both Gail and Alan (coaches) have done a great job on building this group. Last few times at practice I have been asked to help other skaters in both dance and freestyle. I have also been spending a lot of time personally helping some of the older skaters with basic technique and also with basic movements.

Last night started out as a bummer. Lots of trash on the floor, which I grabbed a mop/broom and cleaned the floor before practice. I was ticked off and my wheels got really messy. I almost left without skating, but I hung around with my skates off to watch. Then I saw it... The class was being taught a toe toe, and one of the better skaters was having difficulty with his entry. I walked on the floor and started helping. I wasn't able to demostrate it well enough, so I put my skates back on and we worked on it together. I showed him a way to get the entry ONLY, and then to do the jump... He did, and it was nicely done.

Later I was assisting another older skater who did not know how to do an edge. She was so lost in the class, I was a bit worried she would quit, so I asked her if she would want some assistance. She said yes, so I asked Gail (our coach) if she wouldn't mind if I worked with the young lady to help her get her edge. Gail approved.
I First asked the young lady to show me how she tried to do an edge. I watched what she did and saw that she had no lean at all, and would just turn her foot to the direction she wanted to go and step on it. if she wanted to change directions, she did it by stepping in that direction. No lean at all. I then showed her how the skate truck turned and what it took to make it turn. I the had her rest her forearm on mine so she would not feel like she was falling and had her take a few stokes forward and then hold on one leg. I was not concerned about the free leg, but more that she could just stand on one foot and coast. it took awhile, but once she could, I then tried to assist with leaning and tried t have her do the same. It didn't work... Ok, time to go back to more basic. I then had her repeat the glide on one foot as I held her hands, but this time I was in front and I was skating backwards. As she maintained her straight glide on her left foot, I asked her to turn her head to the left and try to look at the center of the rink floor. Her body did the natural thing and started to shift the weight from the head to shoulders, to hips to ankle. By doing that she put pressure on the outside edge and started to turn, and her body started to lean slightly. You would have thought this was the greatest day in her life. She was so excited. I then went on to explain why moving the head caused the lean.

This was so much fun. Lately I have been helping others to do simple things like that. I would rather get into the nuts and bolts of why an action happens than to just tell someone to do it perfectly and that they didn't do it right. I am not stuck on making the do it perfect or not at all. I believe that perfection will happen as they progress. So I just start by breaking a movement into many small tasks, and get them to master each little task, then I have them put those tasks together and finally have them polish it, by proper leg position, arm position, extension, lean, head position, etc. It is amazing how fast they learn when it is broken down in to small easy to accomplish tasks. They and I are having so much fun. I really enjoy this sport. I don't know if I will try to become a coach. For now I am happy to help for free and to demonstrate for the coaches.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 07:34 PM   #171
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On a great note: ...

This was so much fun. Lately I have been helping others to do simple things like that. I would rather get into the nuts and bolts of why an action happens than to just tell someone to do it perfectly and that they didn't do it right. I am not stuck on making the do it perfect or not at all. I believe that perfection will happen as they progress. So I just start by breaking a movement into many small tasks, and get them to master each little task, then I have them put those tasks together and finally have them polish it, by proper leg position, arm position, extension, lean, head position, etc. It is amazing how fast they learn when it is broken down in to small easy to accomplish tasks. They and I are having so much fun. I really enjoy this sport. I don't know if I will try to become a coach. For now I am happy to help for free and to demonstrate for the coaches.
Jim,

You're an engineer... it makes a good skating teacher, because pieces become parts, and parts make up the skater. The big deal is to get it to work together smoothly and naturally. My dad used to say that-- and yes he was an engineer and a skater.

Also I found as when I was skating, I learned more from teaching or showing someone else how to do something, or correct something. It always made be a better skater and judge to see how someone else feels or perceives a skating element. Because I started so young, I honestly never remembered having some of the other older skaters problems.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 07:45 PM   #172
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Mary,
The coach (Gail) last night said something similar. She said that she asks people to help because it helps them just as much as the person to which they demonstrate. Great minds think and all that...

Jim (The Ancient One)

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Jim,

You're an engineer... it makes a good skating teacher, because pieces become parts, and parts make up the skater. The big deal is to get it to work together smoothly and naturally. My dad used to say that-- and yes he was an engineer and a skater.

Also I found as when I was skating, I learned more from teaching or showing someone else how to do something, or correct something. It always made be a better skater and judge to see how someone else feels or perceives a skating element. Because I started so young, I honestly never remembered having some of the other older skaters problems.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 01:06 AM   #173
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Hi all, hope everyone is back to the rink and starting the new season.

I had my first skating lesson at a wonderful rink today. We worked on progressives and the glide waltz Pushing!!!
I had a blast. My coach is Tina Yow out of Greensboro. She wants me to skate my first meet in November. So here we go!
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Old September 9th, 2008, 07:50 AM   #174
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Hi all, hope everyone is back to the rink and starting the new season.

I had my first skating lesson at a wonderful rink today. We worked on progressives and the glide waltz Pushing!!!
I had a blast. My coach is Tina Yow out of Greensboro. She wants me to skate my first meet in November. So here we go!
Hey Cheryl... good to see you've survived summer vacation, got the kids in school and are back doing something constructive. Now don't kill yourself trying to get back to where you were a few years back in 3 months or less--- I know from experience it don't come easy. But this time I know you won't let it go!

So how was your charming FiL? Did he get his hug from me? LOL He sounds charming!
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Old September 9th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #175
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Hi all, hope everyone is back to the rink and starting the new season.

I had my first skating lesson at a wonderful rink today. We worked on progressives and the glide waltz Pushing!!!
I had a blast. My coach is Tina Yow out of Greensboro. She wants me to skate my first meet in November. So here we go!
Welcome back to the ranks of competitive skating!!!!!! Hope you have as much fun as I have. Get used to the pushing, in adult skating that is what it is all about...POWER!!

Let me hear from you!!
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Old September 10th, 2008, 12:27 AM   #176
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Default Another return to Skating :-)

Well tomorrow I will give rental skates a second try, I haven't skated on anything but my own skates since I was about 10 years old. Back in 1984 or so I was stationed out of town for work, and I went to a local rink in Ohio I believe it was?? I said to the lady at the door, I wasn't sure about this, she thought or course that I couldn't skate. Later that evening when she spotted me doing the Harris tango on rentals, she called me to the rail, and complemented me by sayng, "youngman you have very neat, clean feet"

Well I had to come back to Michigan to help a family member and I was going to throw my Snyders in the car when I left, but didn't.. So tomorrow I will hop into Skate World in Troy, Michigan for a coffee and cake class.. The main reason is a very old friend will be there. When I stopped by the rink to see if I knew anyone there, I didn't but the manager asked me if I knew Rose Martin!! Perhaps the Grand Mother of Skating Pro's in Michigan.. She skates the session using her walker, I was told, this I have to see!!!! 55 years ago she used to holler, at this little 13 year old jumping jack, that'd be me, while she was sitting on a folding chair at Arcadia roller rink in Detroit, Pregnant, giving figure lessons.. "Little Boy go do your jumping at the other end of the rink" :-) It will be fun to walk up to her and ask if I still have to use the other end of the rink?? And better yet if I don't fall all over my self on rentals.. Rose and I have know eachother on and off over the ensuing years... And it will be fun to see her again..Wish I had brought my own skates though!!!


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Hey Cheryl... good to see you've survived summer vacation, got the kids in school and are back doing something constructive. Now don't kill yourself trying to get back to where you were a few years back in 3 months or less--- I know from experience it don't come easy. But this time I know you won't let it go!

So how was your charming FiL? Did he get his hug from me? LOL He sounds charming!
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Old September 10th, 2008, 12:38 AM   #177
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Default Learning how to skate???

I learned a lot of stuff, just watching other people skate. as a 13 year old I learned jumps chasing Senior men around the practice floor :-)

I had a good friend that couldn't dance skate in competition to save his soul, but he knew all the steps to every dance. I'd just ask, Norb, do a couple of sequences of the Viennese Waltz, he put it on the floor exactly like it was in the book. I learned many of the Silver and Gold Mdeal Dances chasing him around rinks...




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Jim,

You're an engineer... it makes a good skating teacher, because pieces become parts, and parts make up the skater. The big deal is to get it to work together smoothly and naturally. My dad used to say that-- and yes he was an engineer and a skater.

Also I found as when I was skating, I learned more from teaching or showing someone else how to do something, or correct something. It always made be a better skater and judge to see how someone else feels or perceives a skating element. Because I started so young, I honestly never remembered having some of the other older skaters problems.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #178
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Default Rental Skates !!!

Had a blast, even managed to bit of cross footwork. Saw more old friends then I knew I had, several thought I had died :-( I think a couple of my reasonably fast cross footwork settled that issue...I think my Snyders will be in a UPS box sometime tonoght!!

Several old judges I used to work with were there, and still judging..

But I went there to see Rose Martin, a lady that I have know since I was 12 or 13 years old.. She remembered sitting on the floor at the old Arcadia in Detroit, and admonishing little Raymond to stay clear. She could best be discribed as the Grandmother of Artistic Skating in Michigan, at least for as long as I was around it..

The best part is that I didn't land on my back side, those rental skates were trash, both rear kingpins felt like they were ten feet too tall for me. BUt I managed :-)

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