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Quad Speed Discussions about speed skating in quad roller skates.

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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #61
dvw
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When I build the boots, I will be asking what plate it is, so there wont be any overhang, I agree it looks weird. That's just looks anyway.. as long as the axles are where you want em, that's what matters.
I'm not anywhere near as upset about the plate fit as I am with all that hardware holding the plate on.

Jimmy, you and I need to have a discussion about tee nuts.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 03:00 AM   #62
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Since you want feedback, I will point out that the boots are laced like an inline boot. I don't know if the rest of this will make sense, and I may be way off base with my speculation.

Because of the freedom of movement of the ankle on quads, The boots have a different feel around the ankle. This is one of the reasons that I am not sold on the carbon fiber boots. Even the leather boots I have had don't feel quite right until they are a little bit used and the leather has stretched in just the right way.

It seems to me that you need a way to tighten around the ankle without pushing the top of the boot (and tongue) into the foot. Regular laces don't accomplish this well, which is why I like the way the leather stretches to form around the foot. That way the heel feels snug while the muscles in the top of the foot can flex and bend without putting too much pressure on them.

Maybe the shape of the carbon fiber eliminates this. I have never tried a carbon fiber quad boot. I won't definitely say it will be a problem, but I would suggest you keep an eye on it. If it is a problem, reconsider the pattern of the laces or the angle and placement of the buckle before relying too heavily on heat molding.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #63
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I'm not anywhere near as upset about the plate fit as I am with all that hardware holding the plate on.

Jimmy, you and I need to have a discussion about tee nuts.
Lol, no tee nuts! I have washers in the front, because the bolt threads started to far down... I figured the plate/ carbon would have been thicker. . Its not... lol
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Old September 28th, 2013, 05:15 AM   #64
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Since you want feedback, I will point out that the boots are laced like an inline boot. I don't know if the rest of this will make sense, and I may be way off base with my speculation.

Because of the freedom of movement of the ankle on quads, The boots have a different feel around the ankle. This is one of the reasons that I am not sold on the carbon fiber boots. Even the leather boots I have had don't feel quite right until they are a little bit used and the leather has stretched in just the right way.

It seems to me that you need a way to tighten around the ankle without pushing the top of the boot (and tongue) into the foot. Regular laces don't accomplish this well, which is why I like the way the leather stretches to form around the foot. That way the heel feels snug while the muscles in the top of the foot can flex and bend without putting too much pressure on them.

Maybe the shape of the carbon fiber eliminates this. I have never tried a carbon fiber quad boot. I won't definitely say it will be a problem, but I would suggest you keep an eye on it. If it is a problem, reconsider the pattern of the laces or the angle and placement of the buckle before relying too heavily on heat molding.
How do you do your laces? Ive always done it like that. Also, to be honest.. I cant remember when the last time I tied quads was. I just pull snug, then leave it. I like tge ankle to be loose, but no slippage.

So far, the boots feel good just wearing them, nice and tight, with no room for tge foot yo move around and blister.

The buckle is somethong that could be removed, velcro could be used.. I just used the buckle for asthetics...
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Old September 28th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #65
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How do you do your laces? Ive always done it like that. Also, to be honest.. I cant remember when the last time I tied quads was. I just pull snug, then leave it. I like tge ankle to be loose, but no slippage.
I lace them normally, with the exception of the last set of eyelets where I cross the laces and put them back through the same side. The difference is the boot. I feel like the way leather stretches and forms to the foot all around means that tightening the laces pushes the foot back instead of down.

To address this, you would move the buckle up and the flap down. Then when you ratchet the buckle, the tightening action would push the feet back.

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So far, the boots feel good just wearing them, nice and tight, with no room for tge foot yo move around and blister.

The buckle is somethong that could be removed, velcro could be used.. I just used the buckle for asthetics...
Then my fears may well be unfounded. As I said, I have no experience with this type of quad boot. I also have no experience with building boots. It is just something that got into my head at one point.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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Lol, no tee nuts! I have washers in the front, because the bolt threads started to far down... I figured the plate/ carbon would have been thicker. . Its not... lol
There are several options with T Nuts and thin carbon.

Option 1) Small T nuts. http://www.mcmaster.com/#90975a015/=oqz6co

Option 2) Slightly longer barrel nuts and drill the plate out for the barrel. This provides a positive lock between the plate and boot. The mounting requires a little more precision than usual.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 07:20 PM   #67
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Those custom made boots look very sophisticated.

How far up the ankle does the carbon go? Past where the red starts?

I also think that the ankle collar might need to have more of a dip for going past the ankle bone protrusion spots.
If you speed skate in a properly low skater posture, with strokes going out wide to the max., then the ankle needs to lean over quite a lot to keep all four wheels down and gripping through the full extension of the stroke.

Those boots seem to be modeled more like inline racing boots, and inline skaters never need to bend their ankles much if any.

Here is a PowerTrac with T-nuts & button heads.



Here is a SuperNova with anodized 7075 flat heads flush



BTW, if you want to have the worlds best PowerTrac suspension tweak to get the most possible turning from them with no foot effort, here is what it looks like. No bottom retainer and action nut flipped over. Will send custom cushions for eval if interested



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Old October 1st, 2013, 11:52 PM   #68
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Default ..... . .

... Hey, .. . . What Kind of Green Gold Bottom cushion is that two cushions.. ?? ,, ??


.. and.. what's with the Reverse Pivot Ball.. .. How's that work. . ??
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 12:33 AM   #69
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... Hey, .. . . What Kind of Green Gold Bottom cushion is that two cushions.. ?? ,, ??


.. and.. what's with the Reverse Pivot Ball.. .. How's that work. . ??

Might be best to ask about the cushions in one of his 5000 threads about "cushion performance", and SG Power Tracks come standard with that pivot ball like that.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 04:46 AM   #70
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Default anyway.. nevermind..

Jimmy, Id push the plates forward mushroom out the bottom of the heel to match plate profile adding Epoxy stainless Insert?? then I'd reMill the front mounting holes, n' cut the plate profile in the front off for safety reason's so it does't hit somebody in the head.. ' some hot dogs though.. your definitely onto something.. !
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:13 AM   #71
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... Hey, .. . . What Kind of Green Gold Bottom cushion is that two cushions.. ?? ,, ??


.. and.. what's with the Reverse Pivot Ball.. .. How's that work. . ??
The yellow lower cushion is a SG Super Cone that has had the slope angle changed to allow it to fit into the 7/8" lower lip holes of the P-trac trucks, which are 1" cushion up top, but only 7/8" cushion OD below.

Since the upper double cushion scheme of this tweak has reduced capacity for keeping the truck centered, the lower modified cone needs a partial cylinder inside the truck lip, transitioning to a steeper than standard cone angle to accommodate the 7/8" lower lip ID.

Anyone who has skated a P-Trac would not believe how free turning this custom cushion scheme allows the P-Tracs to perform. An absolute amazing transformation of these plates.

The reversed pivot scheme of the P-Tracs is what allows it to have the shallowest action angle of just about any plates, and also keeps the center point between the truck's two pivoting endpoints nearer to the floor than almost any other plates.

This means that the lateral force of your push gets directed along a horizontal force vector line that is located closer to the axle's centerline, since the center of the pivot ball is much closer to the axle than with a pivot ball located up inside the plate.

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Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:46 AM   #72
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Default ... yeaa..

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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
The yellow lower cushion is a SG Super Cone that has had the slope angle changed to allow it to fit into the 7/8" lower lip holes pf the P-trac trucks, which are 1" cushion up top, but only 7/8" cushion OD below.

Since the upper double cushion scheme of this tweak has reduced capacity for keeping the truck centered, the lower modified cone needs a partial cylinder inside the truck lip, transitioning to a steeper than standard cone angle to accommodate the 7/8" lower lip ID.

Anyone who has skated a P-Trac would not believe how free turning this custom cushion scheme allows the P-Tracs to perform. An absolute amazing transformation of these plates.

The reversed pivot scheme of the P-Tracs is what allows it to have the shallowest action angle of just about any plates, and also keeps the center point between the truck's two pivoting endpoints nearer to the floor than almost any other plates.

more energy tilting over a shallow angle than twist with a big one.. do those ride nice.. ??

This means that the lateral force of your push gets directed along a horizontal force vector line that is located closer to the axle's center-line, since the center of the pivot ball is much closer to the axle than with a pivot ball located up inside the plate.

-Armadillo
I see that pivot ball is on a parallel to the bottom dual stage bottom riser.. hmm.. .. ' those Washers jimmy gots' are Badd &% though.. as.. let me pass this by ya.. so those pivots will produce less twist on the cushion via shorter leveraging point.. yes that would produce a different action.. '
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:49 AM   #73
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Default ... yeaa..

so more tilt over a shallow angle vs. twist over a longer leverage point.. different action.. ya..
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:39 AM   #74
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so more tilt over a shallow angle vs. twist over a longer leverage point.. different action.. you should try the Arius's..
It is more like how you keep your body low over the skate to handle the lateral centrifugal forces on curves; with the P-Trac skate the suspension support endpoints ride lower to the floor, thus you have better leverage for applying force onto the floor, without having to have your ankles bent as far as a "taller" action demands.

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Old October 5th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #75
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Lol, no tee nuts! I have washers in the front, because the bolt threads started to far down... I figured the plate/ carbon would have been thicker. . Its not... lol
I tee nut mount Bont carbons all the time. There are tricks to making it work.
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Old October 6th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #76
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Default Great quality boot

I got to hold these at the A2A sign up 10/5. Jimmy was just as cool in person as he is here on the forum. His new boots are very cool. Except for Jimmy's oddly shaped feet the fiber work is high quality stuff. The outers are nicely stitched to the carbon, and the lining looks really comfortable and durable. Looking forward to affording my own Pinnacle Quad boots very soon!
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #77
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The pilot falcon plus are a pretty light plate. 17 degrees. Not bad.
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