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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old September 6th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #1
muddlemore
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Default skate suggestions for a bigman

Hello, I am getting back into quad skating and it will be outdoors. I am a bigman @ 6'4", 325lbs. with a size 14 shoe. I am not a hotdogger. I love Armadillo ideas, but not sure how well they would hold up. I would love some suggestions. My surface would mainly be asphalt trails. thanks
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Old September 6th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #2
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Default My latest Outdoor build ideas will work fabulously fot you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by muddlemore View Post
Hello, I am getting back into quad skating and it will be outdoors. I am a bigman @ 6'4", 325lbs. with a size 14 shoe. I am not a hotdogger. I love Armadillo ideas, but not sure how well they would hold up. I would love some suggestions. My surface would mainly be asphalt trails. thanks
You are a perfect candidate for a low-cut basketball shoe build - Plenty of size 14 out there with nice structured FLAT SOLES and fairly lightweight too - especially the new Nike Flywire models. Then glue on a Dragon Plate carbon fiber sheet to the sole.

Once you gain the sole stiffness by gluing a carbon fiber plate to it, you can go with either a metal or nylon plate - whatever you can find that is big enough to handle a SZ 14 LONG outdoor build. This will be your main challenge. A 220mm axle-to-axle would seem about right.

Once you get a big enough plate, whether you mount it to the carbon sheet with glue, screws or both is up to you. I would use BOTH.



BTW, by all means go with a reverse mount! The heel brake is absolutely the best.



-Armadillo
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Old September 7th, 2009, 02:03 AM   #3
Bill in Houston
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can you build them with 6 wheels on each skate? spread the load out a little more?
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Old September 7th, 2009, 03:42 AM   #4
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You could put some wheels on a couple of canoes.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 04:43 AM   #5
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Default It's about getting the center of weight away from front axle

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can you build them with 6 wheels on each skate? spread the load out a little more?
If you are making fun of the long-plate/forward-mount PIC with a 190mm axle-to-axle on a size 10 Nike Zoom Air BB shoe, then you need to do enough short plate outdoor skating miles to experience a few face plants. After that you will start to appreciate the value of having your front axle ~1" ahead of the ball of your foot.

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Old September 7th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #6
Bill in Houston
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No, not at all. Long plates are great for outdoors. Just wondering if there was a way to spread out this guy's load a little more so he doesn't bend an axle every time he skates hard.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 04:13 PM   #7
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Are those plastic plates safe for a 325 lb person?
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Old September 7th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #8
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Default Not by themselves

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Are those plastic plates safe for a 325 lb person?
The build approach I am suggesting combines a stiff soled & well structured BB shoe with a FULL-AREA glued, super strong CARBON FIBER sole adapter, to which the plate is then glued & screwed too. The gluing adds more strength from integrating the individual components into a single superior, more robust structure.

The end result is an effective DOUBLING of the plate's initial strength.

The nylon trucks may be more of a weak point and I agree that metal plates with 8mm axles makes more sense at 325 pound loading. I wasn't so much promoting the specific SG Nova plate (not available in big sizes anyway), as I was showing a carbon fiber reinforced athletic shoe build with reverse mounted plate (Heel brake).

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Old September 7th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #9
yedaki_de
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
... Long plates are great for outdoors. Just wondering if there was a way to spread out this guy's load a little more so he doesn't bend an axle every time he skates hard.
For a big person with big feet it could make sense. But you need in the middle a non-steering but bending axle. Those are not made so far as I know. So, some mechanical skill is needed to make those.

Johannes
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Old September 8th, 2009, 12:16 AM   #10
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Default Decent quality BB shoes have carbon fiber in arch zone

The pictured Nike Zoom Air 96 Retro BB shoe has lots of carbon fiber re-enforcement in arch and sides. When you add another of stiff carbon fiber (sandwiched over birch) laminated sheet, 100% glued to full sole area there will BE NO BENDING to worry about. Trust me on this one!

After this is also glued to the plate - super structural build.

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Old September 8th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #11
AussieScott
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Default Outdoor skate build

I would suggest a metal plate for someone of your size no matter if its indoor or outdoor skating your doing.
I personally am totally against the rear toe stop.
This is because I am a speed skater we heal and toe skate. Heal lands first followed by the front wheels later. That rear stop on Armidillo's skates would land before my wheels and put me in hospital real quick.
You would then have to learn to skate flat footed which in my opinion is slow skating. Which equals boring.
Outdoors especially on a rough path you go over a small rocks with the wheels that rear stop would probably catch and also send you flying.
Forward mount the plates as much as possible you want those front wheels as far forward as you can. This helps getting over rough terrain.
Look for plates without toe stops.
Toe stops are the Devils doing. Don't fall victim to them especially outdoors.
Rear axle well under the center of the ankle bone is preferred.
Look at the Avitar of yedaki_de just 2 posts back. His got a great outdoor setup. I'll track down some outdoor speed skating pictures so you can see what I mean by heal and toe skating.
I can't comment on Armidillo's boots and mounting as I have never tried it.
I just put in a good pair of inner soles and skate only on nice surfaces when ever I can. I'd say in theory his setup would be nice and comfortable compared to mine.
Now wheels.
If your skating rough roads sure go soft go 78a or something like that.
If you want speed go 96a or harder. When we are racing outdoors on tar or concrete hard wheels are the go. Our softer wheels only make an appearance if its wet or really rough.
Oh and yes the bigger the better more roll so more speed.
Well good luck with the build.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
Toe stops are the Devils doing. Don't fall victim to them especially outdoors.
Agreed, however if you mount them backwards and dont fit the stopper that useless overhang will support the heel.

The Doc had a really long set of prolines a few months ago..........they were so long everybody was making fun of them. Perhaps they are still around and would be perfect if a long plate is sought.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 09:51 AM   #13
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Default Heel stops - don't trash them if you have never tried them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
I personally am totally against the rear toe stop.
This is because I am a speed skater we heal and toe skate. Heal lands first followed by the front wheels later. That rear stop on Armidillo's skates would land before my wheels and put me in hospital real quick.
You would then have to learn to skate flat footed which in my opinion is slow skating. Which equals boring.
Outdoors especially on a rough path you go over a small rocks with the wheels that rear stop would probably catch and also send you flying.
There is plenty of thread adjustment range - even enough to satisfy your special HEEL SKATING technique. You are inventing an imaginary problem. I never heard an inliner complain about heel stops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
Forward mount the plates as much as possible you want those front wheels as far forward as you can. This helps getting over rough terrain.
Look for plates without toe stops.
Once you REVERSE MOUNT them - they are WITHOUT TOE STOPS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
Rear axle well under the center of the ankle bone is preferred.
Look at the Avitar of yedaki_de just 2 posts back. His got a great outdoor setup.
I don't advise going as far forward with the rear axle as the yedaki_de avatar skate PIC, and the way most Aussie skaters do it too. Even though you can adapt to skating this way, it's THE WAY you adapt to a rear axle that's ahead of the ball of the heel that causes a problem.
This is because the way you adapt is to shift your weight more forward, onto the balls of your feet & right back onto the FRONT AXLES --- WHERE YOU DO NOT WANT IT TO GO. The goal of the NON-RACING outdoor skate build is to get most of your weight OFF of the front axle. This is why I place the rear axle right below or just behind the ball of the heel. If your mission is just for flat out speed YES, keeping more weight focused up front is going to help you add power to your stroke. But for less intense, safer, everyday skating, keeping the weight focused more to the rear gets your front wheels past all the surface imperfections a lot more easily and consistently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
I'll track down some outdoor speed skating pictures so you can see what I mean by heal and toe skating.
I can't comment on Armidillo's boots and mounting as I have never tried it.
I would love to see these pictures of the "heel & toe" skating technique, especially the angle of the skate when the rear wheels just make initial contact.

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Old September 8th, 2009, 12:58 PM   #14
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Default Heel and Toe skating.

Here you go Armadillo a pretty good shot of what I mean and why a heel brake will not work for me.
I've borrowed this one from facebook I don't think Peter or Stephen will mind.



No arguments that my mounting is 100% speed related but its also safe for general skating. As you said you adjust to leaning slightly forward and you will learn to skate bolt upright as well.
Your theory about placing your weight on the center of the foot is fine but once you hit bumps and your skates slow quickly all your weight will go to the front of your skates and you need the front wheels/axle as far forward as possible for maximum stability.

Obviously your setup works fine Armadillo I like your basic concept I'm just offering a speed skaters input on this one.
I must say I am interested to try some of my old Asic's runners on some plates sometime for a bit of fun.
Have a good one,
Scott.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 01:41 PM   #15
ursle
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[QUOTE=AussieScott;322848]Toe stops are the Devils doing. Don't fall victim to them especially outdoors.
QUOTE]

Great post, I degress about the toe stops, If I'm on a (HILL) with traffic, I'm backwards controling my speed, If I'm at speed and something is getting in my face, I'm backwards on full stop...ymho
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Old September 9th, 2009, 08:10 AM   #16
muddlemore
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Default build is on it's way

Thanks to everyone for the insightful responses, especially Armadillo. I have the Nike Zoom Air 96 Retro BB shoes sourced and on the way, next will be the 1/8" birch/kevlar sandwich. mmmmmm Just have to find the right frame, the proline seems to be a logical choice. As to having a middle axle, come on I don't scale @ 1325lbs. but I do think an 8mm axle wouldn't hurt. soto speak. again thanks. Muddlemore
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Old September 9th, 2009, 09:03 PM   #17
yedaki_de
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Default Hijacking the tread with speed-technik

Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
Here you go Armadillo a pretty good shot of what I mean and why a heel brake will not work for me.
I've borrowed this one from facebook I don't think Peter or Stephen will mind.



...
Hi Scott,

that looks intresting
I never saw it before (maybe I was not aware of it). I would love to see it in a movie.
How long is the frontaxle in the air and what is the advantage of it?

Johannes

BTW, nice kitchen-fotos...
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Old September 11th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #18
Armadillo
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Default Pleanty of angle clearance for heel stop

AussieScott,

As you can see in this PIC of heel stop on Nova plate it tales 30 degrees to initiate braking, and there is still plenty of thread left to give even more angle before braking starts.

Your PIC looks like forward foot is at ~15-20 degrees at contact with ground. BTW, even if stop does kiss the ground, it only tips your foot down anyway, and this is the direction it was heading in the first place. It does NOT mess you up in any significant way, aside from a bit of lost energy.



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Old September 12th, 2009, 05:45 AM   #19
AussieScott
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Default Armadillo

Well mate the heal brake should work based on that sort of angle.
One day I might give into the Devil and try a plate with a stopper again.
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Old September 12th, 2009, 07:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
The build approach I am suggesting combines a stiff soled & well structured BB shoe with a FULL-AREA glued, super strong CARBON FIBER sole adapter, to which the plate is then glued & screwed too. The gluing adds more strength from integrating the individual components into a single superior, more robust structure.

The end result is an effective DOUBLING of the plate's initial strength.

The nylon trucks may be more of a weak point and I agree that metal plates with 8mm axles makes more sense at 325 pound loading. I wasn't so much promoting the specific SG Nova plate (not available in big sizes anyway), as I was showing a carbon fiber reinforced athletic shoe build with reverse mounted plate (Heel brake).

-Armadillo
I'm close to his size...and...I wouldn't do it! especially outdoors, better off just buying a good aluminum plate. Take it from me if you start flexing that plate from crossing over causing it to twist....snap! I have done it with several plates including nova! find a good ultimate for him.
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