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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old December 27th, 2019, 01:33 PM   #1
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Default restoring&dating vintage hyde boot/chicago plate/chicago no.78spl wheels (for myself)

Hi there Doc! Let me start off by thanking you for having this forum, and for posting all of the informative threads that you post along with assisting others on their own threads here. I've spent many hours googling for information over the past few months, and have landed on this forum so many times, I cannot possibly count them anymore. Your thread about toe stop adapters was what led me to figure out why I coudln't find info on the stops on my vintage skates (because they were adapters, not installed, ohhhh!), then find the patent for the ones on my skates, for example. Likewise I believe it was your posts that led me to the patent for the wheels on these skates that I'm posting about now.

To keep it relatively short, here's a link to my post with my introduction/info about me and my skating history, and info & pics of & about these vintage skates that I'd like to date the boot of, along with everything else. http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...981#post742981 There are lots of pics there, all of which have MUCH larger versions available at the links I've posted there. And I can take more of whatever you need.

My goals:

- Identify the year the boots were made if possible.

- Restore the skates to skating condition.

* so I will need new bearings because I lost one of the 16-per-wheel when I took them off - what else must I get or do to use them?

* and I need new cushions - how do I know what ones to buy?

- Skate in them occasionally.

The reason I want to identify the year - I'm into things like genealogy and whatnot. The curiosity about information that may be lost to history gnaws at me, and I just need to know. I like to think about the era in which an item was used, and the people who may have used it, and so on. My parents have both passed and sometimes I like to look at something and imagine they may have had a similar item when they were young, for example. It's just purely my own selfish need to know, because it is satisfying to uncover historical information about people and things I love, I guess. I am not wanting to sell these (and am not looking for info to help make an eBay ad or something!).

I would love to know ANYTHING about the skates. To my eye, the sole of the boot looks really clean, as does the plate. Is it even possible that these were being used back then? The boots sure look very used everywhere else.

Thank you SO so much for ALL you do and have done here!

edited to add - I will post the pics and information here as well, in a separate reply in a moment, so that everything will also be in one thread over here. Thank you!
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Old December 27th, 2019, 01:38 PM   #2
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Here is exactly what I put in the other thread, re: these skates -

Originally Posted by NibblesMcGiblet View Post
So, here is the info on my skates from my personal notes (like I said, I've been researching awhile) and also I will link to some pics - btw my goal is NOT to sell them, but to clean them up and get new bushings, freshen up the wheels with help from Pete, and also the boots one way or another (stiff tongue needs help..?) and then use them once in a blue moon just for some careful fun. Thank you all SO SO Much for ANY help possible!

BOOTS: Hyde Athletic Co. - white leather, men's cut (?), 10 eyelets, no eyehooks, split tongue (?) with orange foam lining (aftermarket? WAY aftermarket??)


Pete from sk8fanatics.com says it's a 10 degree plate and dates the entire skate setup to 1940s-1960s.

WHEELS: "Chicago" No. 78 SPL Pat. No. 2300444 - loose bearing wheels for 7mm axels

Wheel patent filed Aug. 1940 and approved Nov. 1942 suggests it is a composite (patent number 2300444) but Pete at sk8fanatics says they're "stone wheels" (the wheels are NOT "pat pend" so they are from Nov 42 or later).

TOESTOP ADAPTER: Rice Bros Mfg / Co. Bluffs IA / PAT PEND

I found the patent for these (patent number 2566747) - Leo H. Rice applied for the patent in Feb 1948, and it was approved in Sept 1951 so these toe stops were made between those two dates.

(note - Leo H Rice and Ira J Rice were still patenting roller skate stuff in 61-3 but were now located in Nebraska)

(PS Doc I only knew to search patents for "skate adapters" when all else failed, due to your old thread here about them! I had found it on google, seen a pic of one similar to mine, realized mine was special (I never heard of a toe stop adapter to me so that's special in my book!), and then figured out the rest. Thank you so much for that!)

PICS (I will take and upload better ones ASAP) -

https://imgur.com/a/y7G01MM <---- full size versions are here, smaller versions here:

https://imgur.com/a/Wq5xtw1 <--- here's some additional ones that I just took. A few are repeats from above basically, because I was trying to get some that I could fit on the forum. But got it fixed well enough for now with a work-around. The small versions are below, but full size at that link

And finally:

(big version - https://i.imgur.com/ToYcG7q.jpg)

(big version - size (men's) and model number (maybe??)- https://i.imgur.com/8Vg4ri0.jpg ) "8" "527572"

**A cool note, I think - one of the wheels, when removed, was found to have the same raised lettering on the inside /skate side of the wheel as yo usee here on the outside of the wheel (all of them have it on the outside, but the inside raised lettering had been rubbed off of all but one). I would've never thought there was lettering on both sides if I hadn't seen that! Thought it was really neat!
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Old December 30th, 2019, 12:25 PM   #3
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Doc - I received your PM and will reply to you shortly. For now though, I wanted to share what I just found about Hyde Athletic Industries in case anyone else gets directed here on a google search result like I have so many times.

"In 1910, Russian immigrant A.R. Hyde started a shoe company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, called Hyde Athletic Industries. Over the years, Hyde became known for making athletic footwear including brands such as SpotBilt and PF Flyers; Hyde Athletic Industries bought Saucony in the late 1960s, and moved it to Cambridge. In 1979 two of Saucony's running shoes were selected in the top 10 by Runner's World magazine (the Hornet was chosen best value) and by the following spring the demand for the product had gone up 20 fold. In the late 1980s, when Saucony became Hyde's dominant brand, the name of the company was officially changed from Hyde Athletic Industries to Saucony. "

source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saucony#History

Well, I suppose that helps narrow down the boot manufacture date to something between 1910 and 2019! LOL

(just had a thought - I wonder if writing to Saucony with pics included might help me figure out the dates? Surely they have some kind of record of model numbers of their old skate boots, I would think.. ?)


edit - maybe not. Since then, a number of additional sales have occurred. :/

"In 2005 Saucony was acquired by Stride Rite Corporation for $170 million. Stride Rite Corporation was then acquired in 2007 for $800 million by Payless ShoeSource and the combined company became known as Collective Brands. In 2012, the Performance Lifestyle Group of Collective Brands, which included Saucony, along with Keds, Stride Rite and Sperry Top-Sider, became part of Wolverine World Wide in a $1.23 billion transaction that also involved the sale of Payless ShoeSource and Collective Licensing International to private equity firms Blum Capital Partners and Golden Gate Capital."
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Old December 30th, 2019, 05:38 PM   #4
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Thumbs up Very cool.

Great info. Too bad they got out of the sk8 shoe biz.
"The difference between good skates and great skates comes from knowing where to get the numbers."
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Old January 1st, 2020, 06:06 PM   #5
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I never knew that Hyde made PF Flyers. I have officially met my goal for today of learning something new every day.
Find some roller derby girls. Don't try to romance them! That don't end well. okie 10/12/2011
Royals FTW! When only the shiny will do... Doc Sk8 05/19/2012
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Old January 2nd, 2020, 11:53 AM   #6
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Great thread, thanks for sharing your information even though you guys were PM'ing. Thanks for not minding us Doc
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Old January 3rd, 2020, 03:44 PM   #7
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So glad I'm not the only one who thinks this stuff is interesting! Here's a bit more-

"With the outbreak of World War II, production was given over to boots for soldiers. As a result of this work, Hyde was awarded the Army/Navy E Award for Manufacturing Excellence, the only American shoe company so honored. After the war, the company resumed production of athletic shoes and, in 1952, purchased the Illinois Athletic Shoe Company, makers of Spot-Bilt athletic shoes. In 1960 NASA awarded Hyde a contract to produce footwear for America’s space program, and as a result, the boots worn by astronauts during the first space walk bore the Hyde label."

source - https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-...ns/saucony-inc

bonus pics -

From - https://www.heddels.com/2014/11/pf-f...fall-and-rise/

which tells us the Goodrich you see there is the same that goes from supplying rubber shoe soles to rubber car tires!
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chicago, chicago no.78 spl, hyde, rice bros, vintage skates

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