S k a t e L o g     F o r u m

Closed in June of 2020

SKATELOG DOT COM: Web Site | Blog | Facebook |    


Home

*** The SkateLog Forum Has Been Replaced by SkateDebate Dot Com ***

FROM SKATELOG FORUM HOST KATHIE FRY IN MARCH OF 2020:
This announcement is to let everyone know that after hosting the SkateLog Forum and its predecessors for nearly 20 years, I have decided it is time to permanently turn the forum over to a new owner and administrator. I cannot think of anyone more suitable to take on that role than my SkateLog forum co-host, Florida skater Jessica Wright. I am pleased to announce that Jessica has agreed to establish and host a brand new skating forum, configured like the SkateLog Forum, but with a new name and a new Web Site. This new forum is 100% owned and operated by Jessica.

NEW FORUM NAME: SkateDebate Forum
NEW WEB SITE: SkateDebate.com
NEW OWNER AND ADMINISTRATOR: Jessica Wright
REGISTER IN JESSICA'S FORUM: Create a SkateDebate Forum User Name


Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 5th, 2019, 11:13 PM   #1
polishedball
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 18
Default Plate mount

Any opnions on if this is the correct way to mount the Avenger plate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6yKaX8fWY

Going to swap out my probes with these but am trying to figure out the best way to center it and also determine front to back position. Any input thoughts appreciated Thanks
polishedball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2019, 11:29 PM   #2
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Any opnions on if this is the correct way to mount the Avenger plate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6yKaX8fWY

Going to swap out my probes with these but am trying to figure out the best way to center it and also determine front to back position. Any input thoughts appreciated Thanks
It depends.... on preferences, long plate-short plate, centered, forward, rear mount. Lots of combinations. I prefer a long mount. If your axle centerlines are about the same and you like it, I would set it up just the same. A little cushion swapping and you will be good to go.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2019, 12:28 AM   #3
ursle
Street Skater
 
ursle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 1,871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Any opnions on if this is the correct way to mount the Avenger plate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6yKaX8fWY

Going to swap out my probes with these but am trying to figure out the best way to center it and also determine front to back position. Any input thoughts appreciated Thanks
The video is mounting the plate short forward, the most efficient way to skate, so yes, it offsets the front to the outside and lines the heel up centered, are you skating derby, it's a speed skate setup, it's on the line that all plates should be setup at, just more forward, more what current skaters want.
ursle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2019, 11:27 AM   #4
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

I have a size 10 boot(283mm foot) and had a 193mm wheelbase, I'm currently on a 186mm wheelbase. The only main difference I've noticed is that when pulling the toe up off the floor , it's easier with the axle farther forward in the rear.

Likewise, it's harder to lift the heel off the floor by pushing the toe down the farther the axle is placed past the ball of the foot.

As with anything modulations of a "normal" mount has some form of compromise. My friends and I do a lot of high speed skating with a focus on agility, so our plate alignment is slightly heel out from center, toe in. Very far forward, and centered under the heel.

This won't turn as well at slow speeds with all 4 wheels on the floor. But at slow speeds, footwork is better, if you have the physical prowess and skillsets for it that is... So the shortcoming it has for us is negligible with our use. A figure skater would HATE our setups though, you can't do a loop in them very easily lol. And many rhythm moves are kind of taxing due to the front axles being far forward. It makes spinning on the front axles harder because the muscles have to work more, and the sensitivity is elevated, also we have softer suspension to help with plate leaning so that's also harder to control with a soft setup.

There is a lot that goes into a skate that people dont even consider. The most overlooked aspect is how stiff a boots sole is. Stiffer is better SOMETIMES, not all the time. It can effect grip, and the ease of which one can modulate a slide.

What's the bottom line? There is no right/wrong really, its subject to the task at hand, which varies from skater to skater as their preferred goal does, and what they like to accomplish that goal.

I like to select a plate size for my own purpose as centered under the heel or just a little forward of that if need be, where ones natural balance points are. Like where you would seek to pivot on a wooden floor with some socks on. I personally like my front axle about where I'd pick up a pencil with my toes, that is where I select my wheelbase from. Those 2 points.

Most people who complain about "skateboard mounts" typically dont skate super fast all the time, and would want something shorter that better fit the majority of the skating they will be doing.

For newer skaters, I'd error on the side of more plate(wheelbase) than less, and turn them onto learning how to tune their skates suspension. This retains a lot of stability and does not comprise as much turning as most people believe. However if you get the rear axle too far back, getting leverage on it to initiate plate lean is more difficult.

Unfortunately, quads dont have it easy like inlines where you dont need to redrill to make lateral/toe in/toe out /heel in /heel out adjustments. About every time you would want to try a modification, you have to redrill lol. But a cheap pair of soccer cleats with the cleats taken off is great for experimenting.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 12:17 PM   #5
polishedball
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 18
Default

Thanks all, I mounted up the plates this weekend after my skate session.

It will be Thursday that i'll get to try them on a rink, but my initial thoughts are balance was different duh with the wheels moved forward. But what I am most happy with is I have a bit of an odd shaped foot wide front and a narrow heel. I wear out the back of shoes quick because of how my heel slides around. After moving the wheels forward, I have reduced heel slip (if that is a word) Having the wheels more under the heel has somehow stabilized it..

Tweaking the action will take some time, as it is much different than the 20 year old hardened cushions I had been skating on combined with the DA45 I was shocked how tight they could turn with just leaning.

I have the purple cushions and am thinking I may want a step harder to avoid over tightening them as my current weight is 240.
polishedball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 04:44 PM   #6
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default Stay with SG Purple

When your edge control gets really dialed in after a few hours of skating and really getting the sensitivity in check, you'll be just fine.

In fact, I would recommend you change the cupped retainers for flat washers. and use a little grease between the flat area of your cushions and the truck. The cushions should have 2 different sides as well, one has SURE GRIP on it and the other a bunch of ribs(theres reason for this, those little ribs help to hold a lubricant in place). Those ribs get the grease and face the truck, the SG stamped side get put against the retainer/washer.

Personally my favored traditional kingpin setup is purple cushions with undersized flat washers, they're firm enough where they support a good hard lateral push, but soft enough to still edge if setup as described. Also on stamped washers there is a rounded side and a sharp side from the stamping process. The sharp side goes against the plate/nut and the rounded side against the cushion. While I haven't seen damage from doing the opposite, best not to chance the rougher edge of the washer against to cushion. Since when you edge the plate over, that cushion will be deforming and could possibly get damaged at its edge if it starts to wrap around that sharp corner on the washer.

I also put a thin film of grease on the kingpin shaft as well, this helps the cushions squirm away as intended and not wear or get stuck to the kingpin.

You'll get a LOT more life out of a set of cushions when using grease, the suspension will be smooth and compliant, it will reduce ramp up resistance since they will be able to slide on the contacting/compressing surfaces(also flat washers helps this) and after a hard edge that 8s held for a moment of your skates, when you go back to center, it will return to center and not get stuck in a turn. Essentially you wont have to make them center back up. If you've ever seen a skateboarder get wheel bite after an ollie/flip trick/etc , and have to bail off his board, the skateboard will usually stay turning because it cant recenter easily in a dry assembly.

Ideally you dont want much compression applied with the kingpin nut. Just enough to take out all slop and then a smidge for your bodyweight, since when you step down your weight will compress the plate side cushion a small bit. My go to setting is where it becomes difficult to spin the cushion with my fingers, but not impossible. From that point I wont tighten much more than 1 full rotation, 1 you'll need to adjust the pivots, and 2 it's just too much on the cushions. If it's too loose for someone at that point they'll need to try to get used to it for a session or 2 first, if they truely feel it's too loose after that, they should go up in cushion hardness instead of cranking the nut way down, or possibly go back to cupped retainers as an in between instead of going to a harder cushion.

Also a good boot for you to possibly look into is a Riedell Solaris. It's a middle to wide ball (C to D width feet) and a narrow heel to prevent just what you described.

Hope all goes well for your skating session!
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 04:54 PM   #7
polishedball
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
When your edge control gets really dialed in after a few hours of skating and really getting the sensitivity in check, you'll be just fine.

In fact, I would recommend you change the cupped retainers for flat washers. and use a little grease between the flat area of your cushions and the truck. The cushions should have 2 different sides as well, one has SURE GRIP on it and the other a bunch of ribs(theres reason for this, those little ribs help to hold a lubricant in place). Those ribs get the grease and face the truck, the SG stamped side get put against the retainer/washer.

Personally my favored traditional kingpin setup is purple cushions with undersized flat washers, they're firm enough where they support a good hard lateral push, but soft enough to still edge if setup as described. Also on stamped washers there is a rounded side and a sharp side from the stamping process. The sharp side goes against the plate/nut and the rounded side against the cushion. While I haven't seen damage from doing the opposite, best not to chance the rougher edge of the washer against to cushion. Since when you edge the plate over, that cushion will be deforming and could possibly get damaged at its edge if it starts to wrap around that sharp corner on the washer.

I also put a thin film of grease on the kingpin shaft as well, this helps the cushions squirm away as intended and not wear or get stuck to the kingpin.

You'll get a LOT more life out of a set of cushions when using grease, the suspension will be smooth and compliant, it will reduce ramp up resistance since they will be able to slide on the contacting/compressing surfaces(also flat washers helps this) and after a hard edge that 8s held for a moment of your skates, when you go back to center, it will return to center and not get stuck in a turn. Essentially you wont have to make them center back up. If you've ever seen a skateboarder get wheel bite after an ollie/flip trick/etc , and have to bail off his board, the skateboard will usually stay turning because it cant recenter easily in a dry assembly.

Ideally you dont want much compression applied with the kingpin nut. Just enough to take out all slop and then a smidge for your bodyweight, since when you step down your weight will compress the plate side cushion a small bit. My go to setting is where it becomes difficult to spin the cushion with my fingers, but not impossible. From that point I wont tighten much more than 1 full rotation, 1 you'll need to adjust the pivots, and 2 it's just too much on the cushions. If it's too loose for someone at that point they'll need to try to get used to it for a session or 2 first, if they truely feel it's too loose after that, they should go up in cushion hardness instead of cranking the nut way down, or possibly go back to cupped retainers as an in between instead of going to a harder cushion.

Also a good boot for you to possibly look into is a Riedell Solaris. It's a middle to wide ball (C to D width feet) and a narrow heel to prevent just what you described.

Hope all goes well for your skating session!
Thanks for the info, I did put the cupped washers in as i found in the picture, never thought of them cutting in. I think I need to loosen up my setting abit. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this.
polishedball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 09:13 PM   #8
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Tweaking the action will take some time, as it is much different than the 20 year old hardened cushions I had been skating on combined with the DA45 I was shocked how tight they could turn with just leaning.

I have the purple cushions and am thinking I may want a step harder to avoid over tightening them as my current weight is 240.
I would set aside the notion of "tuning". Or, at least the conventional notion. A da45 should be set up with the pivot pin at the right length. Then you just tighten the cushions down a bit.

Proper pivot pin length is the most important "setup" item. Once you have it, you can't go around tightening or loosening cushions. If you end up with a darty, too responsive skate, the pin is too long. If you get a mushy, not responsive skate, it's too short.

Tuning for how easy things are, are as you already said. Which cushions to use.


Here is some pivot setup info.
http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...ferrerid=14464
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 09:15 PM   #9
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Thanks for the info, I did put the cupped washers in as i found in the picture, never thought of them cutting in. I think I need to loosen up my setting abit. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this.
The cupped ones will be fine. It's the flat undersized ones I was speaking of that can potentially damage the cushion prematurely in its life. So if you convert to flat washers for better tuned suspensions, make sure you are aware of how you put them on.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 12:49 AM   #10
polishedball
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
I would set aside the notion of "tuning". Or, at least the conventional notion. A da45 should be set up with the pivot pin at the right length. Then you just tighten the cushions down a bit.

Proper pivot pin length is the most important "setup" item. Once you have it, you can't go around tightening or loosening cushions. If you end up with a darty, too responsive skate, the pin is too long. If you get a mushy, not responsive skate, it's too short.

Tuning for how easy things are, are as you already said. Which cushions to use.


Here is some pivot setup info.
http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...ferrerid=14464
Thanks most of the links in that thread seem to be page not found now. I have watch other videos making sure the pivot doespress down into cup and have slop when pressed down as well as when just on the single cushion the truck meeting and aligning with the cushion with no tilt or space. What seems odd is that the setup appears correct with the pins barely turned out almost retracted completely. Is this normal on an avenger size 5 plate? Just seems odd it wouldnt be a more nuetral position than almost fully retracted. Thoughts?
polishedball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 03:43 AM   #11
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Thanks most of the links in that thread seem to be page not found now. I have watch other videos making sure the pivot doespress down into cup and have slop when pressed down as well as when just on the single cushion the truck meeting and aligning with the cushion with no tilt or space. What seems odd is that the setup appears correct with the pins barely turned out almost retracted completely. Is this normal on an avenger size 5 plate? Just seems odd it wouldnt be a more nuetral position than almost fully retracted. Thoughts?
I would get a little experience with the whole thing. Play with your first setup. I was going to say make it short, then make it long just to see what they all look like. But probably just make the pin long. You should then easily see how the truck angle is wider on the pin side, shorter on the opposite. And then optionally, shorten it until it gets short. Or, just take the long side down until it right. Maybe just a squinch short, to allow for a turn of tension on the top cushion.

One thing to watch for is if everything is seated well when you start looking at the pivot pin. Sometimes your truck and bottom cushion will seat well and you measurements will be good. Other times, you might need to put the top cushion on and tighten, just to make sure things are set down, then loosen well, then check the pin length. I used to even have to watch out for a king pin loosening. But yours is pressed in and should not be a problem.

There have been a number of DA45's, and seemingly odd, and different neutral positions have been discovered. So, hard to say on yours. I don't have your plate. I have a white mag, and an Invader, both with the original DA45 truck. You have a newer plate and a newer truck. I will say, until you get this well, you can fall prey to some wrong interpretations. I did. I did the setup a couple of time, then started messing with things, and putting them back, and missed, and missed, and missed. That pushed me to create the neutral point notion. Since then, I can nail the setup.

It almost wouldn't be a terrible if you set things off a time or two. Just to see how different the skate feels when things are wrong. Way to turny if long, kind of mushy and loses traction if short. But when it is right, it feels great.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 05:03 AM   #12
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Thanks most of the links in that thread seem to be page not found now. I have watch other videos making sure the pivot doespress down into cup and have slop when pressed down as well as when just on the single cushion the truck meeting and aligning with the cushion with no tilt or space. What seems odd is that the setup appears correct with the pins barely turned out almost retracted completely. Is this normal on an avenger size 5 plate? Just seems odd it wouldnt be a more nuetral position than almost fully retracted. Thoughts?

Yea, the avenger plates I've had my hands on did not need pivot adjustment out much , if at all.

The pivot pin should just touch the cup. It shouldn't have slop when you try to press the truck down/toward the pivot cup nor should it be threaded out where it is pressing the truck away from the pivot cup.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 10:31 PM   #13
polishedball
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 18
Default

Spent a few hours today, playing and making adjustments at the gym.

I have them skating pretty well I think, a litttle getting use to the balance with the forward mount, but turns transitions are much easier.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
polishedball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 11:38 PM   #14
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Spent a few hours today, playing and making adjustments at the gym.

I have them skating pretty well I think, a litttle getting use to the balance with the forward mount, but turns transitions are much easier.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
Great. Happy Skating.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.