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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old July 24th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BearingAll View Post
So RISE UP and demand a closed course skating course for every community! Mixed use for cyclists and runners would be acceptable.
Are running tracks suitable for skating? They are quite common but usually associated with schools. Because of this, I have been reluctant to go try one out when I have chanced upon one. I wasn't quite sure they were really open to public. My suspicion is that surfaces optimized for running will be poor for skating and visa versa. But that is just a guess. I do not know.

This is important because, honestly, you are not going to get cities and counties to spend scarce public funds to build facilities for a sport that does not already have critical mass. The best we can do, in most areas, is to push for the construction of a facilities for more mainstream sports that we can also use.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #62
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Most running tracks around here have a surface similar to rubber, so can't be skated. A few are hard surfaced, and good for skating. (Those schools allow public use, and the tracks are often used for public running, bicycling, etc.; but some schools don't allow public use.)

Multiple-use facilities are a good idea, but not always realistic for skating.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #63
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Yeah, the better the running surface, probably the less suitable for skating. If you can find an asphalt or rough cement surface, that would be best, but most are the rubber, like Jim White mentioned, or clay/rock mix (little sharp chunks of rock mixed in with clay... well, and eventually dirt over time, and usually grated a few times a year.)

Rubber surfaces are probably least accessible being that they're the most fragile, and we don't want those anyway, way to soft to skate on. Clay/rock doesn't lend itself to needing to be secured being it can be fixed with a rake and maybe a shovel, but you don't want to skate on that either, it's basically like a dirt track, just less dust. Asphalt and cement tracks are sturdy, so there's not a huge reason to need them secured, but I don't see them too often.

You're probably more likely to be able to find a school with a cement sidewalked courtyard (my Jr. High School was like this, except for a covered walkway with a lot of posts to navigate.) Or maybe a business park like that. But, either one is likely to run you off eventually out of liability fears.

If you're looking at getting a project going, suggesting asphalt might be a good way to go. It's relatively inexpensive (compared to cement) and certainly durable for running and other non-powered wheel sports. While cement is generally longer lasting, asphalt can last well for this kind of use, especially if it's sealed every few years.

If you can get a 400M track it can also serve as a 1/4 mile track, or 25 laps and you've got a 10K. But, that's a big track. You might be more likely to get a 200M track, if anything. At that point, see if you can do a 200M light banked track (not a Velodrome, that's a pretty steep bank and not so conducive to inline skating.)
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Old July 24th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #64
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Bearingall - a bit late to the party, but point well taken, and nothing that has not been touched on before. infrastructure in usa is hit & miss, some areas have great/growing network of trails, while others have nothing. and, only a few tracks exists (and, even those are so under-utilized it's shameful), and, while most high school running tracks, as pointed out, are rubberized surfaces, the drivers ed courses however are great for drills and training cross-overs on the figure 8's. so, why do we not have more track in the USA? well, I do point blame a bit to governing body - they want & have control of the sport? then why is it they don't step up to find the funding necessary and assure there are facilities to sustain inline, track or otherwise? Money is not the problem, it's priorities. In the case of the privately owned track in WI, the family darn near bankrupted themselves in going out to promote the sport this summer across the USA. they did it out of pocket, with supplemental offerings from friends/family - I ask: where was USARS, the sports governing body, in this effort? How is it we 'our sport' cannot find grant $ or other funding to build tracks and facilities? The $ funding directed to the other roller sports is exponentially greater than for inline/ track racing. Personally, I hear a lot about USARS needing new blood, it may be so - those that care enough maybe ought to consider to step-up get on the board of directors and help make changes. otherwise, don't expect any changes in the sport any time soon.

and, AZ Rr - aarp...ouch! when I get my card I will surely ask for discounts at races. re: age factor of participants and lack of youth participation - I suspect the same can be said statistically for any outdoor 1/2 or full marathon event - kids under 18 yrs are just not participating. Sadly, I think what we are witnessing is loss of youth in skating to other sports/activities. To which, the answer is, more instructors and skate school programs are needed to sustain and grow the sport, targeting youth. Again, opportunity exist for people to step up and get certified as instructors, set up skate schools and/or get skating programs integrated into schools or other after-school programs.

donnybrook - yes, events give visibility to rollers ports, they are needed, even if it's 5k or 10K. and, I'd like to see more folks who want events, and to move the sport forward, step-up and take the helm at running events in their local regions. or, at least get involved in getting them off the ground in their communities. most running events are happy to tag on a skate, though most will expect someone from skating to manage the skate component of the event - that may very well be yourself, and you won't be able to race your event. and, volunteers are needed to support a race. some venue promoters are happy to include it and manage it. just start the conversation with any event in your area, and see where things go. if anyone needs info/help on how to plan, organize and manage a race vent, pm me or email me.

We started our school before the shop to help support, sustain, and cultivate within our local skating community. we've put on countless events, including races to engage people in our local community. these days we do more with fun rolls, friday night skates, skate tours, and social skates to engage people into the sport.

Golden Gate Park, is a great example, and was lucky to have Dave Mile's persistence in bringing the skate area to life. I am working on something similar, getting one of our city parks to repave a deteriorating swatch of pavement for use for: slalom freestyle, derby and skate school use. Seriously, it's worse than pulling teeth, and I just recently found out I am fighting against pickleball folk who apparently also want the space for their sports use...ugg. and, be forewarned, city govt's move at snails pace. My next stop planning commission to persuade them why it's needed for roller sports, and pitch the multi-sport-use approach. Most of you know I've also been engaged in a banked track effort for over 5 years, it's been a slow process and always comes back to lack of funds.

One final note, I will get off my soap box and simply say this: "It starts with you!" We can all talk about the topics endlessly, and believe me we have been on this forum for years doing just that, but the bottom line is make a commitment - get involved, make something happen in your area, fight for trails or places to skate, get laws changed to road skate without fear of getting ticketed, do events: races, fun rolls, & social skates, start a skate school, and, it can be as simple and effortless as bring a friend or family member out to skate with you next time. there are people who will never step-up but simply just want to skate, and that is certainly okay by me, the sport needs those folks, but it also needs those of you who care enough to voice about what the sport needs... so, let's go make @#$%^ happen!!!
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Old July 24th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #65
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The sport is so conducive to school sports it's doesn't make sense it's not in schools sports programs. The indoor racing as stated from Australia can be done on basketball courts as an option. The outdoor racing can be any design shape and length but set by standards as in other school sports. School skate teams would/could be no different than other school sports. This has not be promoted by USARS.


USARS has failed the sport of inline speed skating to promote, advance and market the growth of the sport. The old guard needs to retire and new blood must step in.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 09:54 PM   #66
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USARS has failed the sport of inline speed skating to promote, advance and market the growth of the sport. The old guard needs to retire and new blood must step in.


No sports governing body promotes the sport. It's the people in the trenches that make the sport grow.

Quote:
One final note, I will get off my soap box and simply say this: "It starts with you!" We can all talk about the topics endlessly, and believe me we have been on this forum for years doing just that, but the bottom line is make a commitment - get involved, make something happen in your area, fight for trails or places to skate, get laws changed to road skate without fear of getting ticketed, do events: races, fun rolls, & social skates, start a skate school, and, it can be as simple and effortless as bring a friend or family member out to skate with you next time. there are people who will never step-up but simply just want to skate, and that is certainly okay by me, the sport needs those folks, but it also needs those of you who care enough to voice about what the sport needs... so, let's go make @#$%^ happen!!!
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Old July 24th, 2014, 10:11 PM   #67
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No sports governing body promotes the sport. It's the people in the trenches that make the sport grow.
I disagree 100%, look at every successful professional and amateur sport, the NBA, NFL, NHL, WNBA, NASCAR, MLB, NCAA, etc. and tell me their governing body doesn't promote, advertise and do anything they can to build their brand and advance their sport.
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Old July 24th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #68
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Maybe I need glasses??
BY-LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES AMATEUR CONFEDERATION OF ROLLER SKATING
(Dba USA ROLLER SPORTS)
ARTICLE I. PRINCIPLE OFFICE
The principle office of USA Roller Sports (USARS) is located at 4730 South Street, Lincoln, Nebraska 68506.
ARTICLE II. MISSION, VISION AND PURPOSE
SECTION 1. MISSION
As the recognized National Governing Body (NGB) by the United States Olympic Committee, the Mission of the USA Roller Sports (USARS)
shall be to develop, promote, educate and grow Roller Sports at all levels and to enable athletes to achieve sustained competitive excellence
in domestic and international competitions.
Full link info here: http://usars.info/rules/2012%20Bylaws.pdf

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Old July 25th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by AZ Roadrunner View Post
I disagree 100%, look at every successful professional and amateur sport, the NBA, NFL, NHL, WNBA, NASCAR, MLB, NCAA, etc. and tell me their governing body doesn't promote, advertise and do anything they can to build their brand and advance their sport.
Those are for profit businesses not National Governing Bodies. If you tread on their brand this is what happens:

MLB Tells Little League Not To Use Team Names

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/mlb-sa...am-names-17937
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Old July 25th, 2014, 01:51 AM   #70
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Maybe I need glasses??
BY-LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES AMATEUR CONFEDERATION OF ROLLER SKATING
(Dba USA ROLLER SPORTS)
ARTICLE I. PRINCIPLE OFFICE
The principle office of USA Roller Sports (USARS) is located at 4730 South Street, Lincoln, Nebraska 68506.
ARTICLE II. MISSION, VISION AND PURPOSE
SECTION 1. MISSION
As the recognized National Governing Body (NGB) by the United States Olympic Committee, the Mission of the USA Roller Sports (USARS)
shall be to develop, promote, educate and grow Roller Sports at all levels and to enable athletes to achieve sustained competitive excellence
in domestic and international competitions.
Full link info here: http://usars.info/rules/2012%20Bylaws.pdf

The MEMBERS (Athletes, Coaches, Parents, etc.) of USARS have to develop, promote, educate and grow Roller Sports at all levels and to enable athletes to achieve sustained competitive excellence in domestic and international competitions.

Quote:
One final note, I will get off my soap box and simply say this: "It starts with you!" We can all talk about the topics endlessly, and believe me we have been on this forum for years doing just that, but the bottom line is make a commitment - get involved, make something happen in your area, fight for trails or places to skate, get laws changed to road skate without fear of getting ticketed, do events: races, fun rolls, & social skates, start a skate school, and, it can be as simple and effortless as bring a friend or family member out to skate with you next time. there are people who will never step-up but simply just want to skate, and that is certainly okay by me, the sport needs those folks, but it also needs those of you who care enough to voice about what the sport needs... so, let's go make @#$%^ happen!!!
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Old July 25th, 2014, 03:16 AM   #71
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I have an idea to approach a local private university that has a strong presence in competitive cycling. My pitch will be a mixed use facility for training/grooming young participants in cycling and- oh by the way, inline skating is great for cross training. It just so happens that I learned recently that this university will purchase a public golf course that the city wants to offload due to lack of funds. The golf course is very near the university and near their veledrome. Apparently the university has no substantial presence in competitive golf and doesn't want to keep all or most of the course as is. So I'm wondering what they want it for and hoping that they already have ideas inline (pun intended) with mine. I am putting together a feasibility study for the pitch and would very much appreciate any input on similar facilities. Again, Bob Rodale park is my model, but I have no idea how it came to be. I would appreciate any history. Additionally, how did countries such as Colombia, Mexico and South Korea generate the political force to establish closed tracks? I would appreciate any background here, which would be very helpful in drafting a briefing document.

A comment on a previous post regarding inline skating programs at schools: I was recently in the Czech Republic and was walking by a school and witnessed about 40 kids on inlines skating around a basketball rink. There were instructors in the middle of the rink giving guuidance. It was so astounding that I stopped and watched and photographed the event. This was Ostrava, which is a small town on the Polish border. They do host a WIC race, which may explain why there appears to be so much interest in the sport. I have to believe, though, that there is a general interest in the health benefits of "good, clean, OUTDOOR fun" for the kiddies. The whole scene made me envious and convinced me that there has to be a better model to promote the sport. I agree that governing bodies are not the answer. The members are often too self serving- case in point is the IOC or NCAA.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 03:57 AM   #72
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Good ideas. Suggest you build a team of experienced advisors. Apparently your proposal will be to build a velodrome, so your advisors would include those experienced in operating a velodrome, such as those in Colorado Springs, Cooper City, and/or Indianapolis. Regarding Colombia, Mexico, and Korea, there are knowledgeable people regarding skating in those countries which I could put you into contact with, but establishing national political force is probably beyond the scope of what's realistic for a university, so I'd wait for those contacts until the basics are well underway. Suggest you let us know the current ideas of some university, and other local, cycling gurus, then we can help you build contacts with others elsewhere.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:55 AM   #73
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Good ideas. Suggest you build a team of experienced advisors. Apparently your proposal will be to build a velodrome, so your advisors would include those experienced in operating a velodrome, such as those in Colorado Springs, Cooper City, and/or Indianapolis. Regarding Colombia, Mexico, and Korea, there are knowledgeable people regarding skating in those countries which I could put you into contact with, but establishing national political force is probably beyond the scope of what's realistic for a university, so I'd wait for those contacts until the basics are well underway. Suggest you let us know the current ideas of some university, and other local, cycling gurus, then we can help you build contacts with others elsewhere.
Careful with the word "velodrome." A bike banked track, AKA: Velodrome, has a steeper bank to it. So you don't want to confuse people. We have a Velodrome in our state, skaters don't really skate on it, it's too sharply banked.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 06:17 AM   #74
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"How do countries like Mex / Columbia / South Korea find funds to build the infrastructure for skating sports?"
Simple - they have government run and funded programs, such as CODA which runs the Mexican youth sports programs. In Japan and S Korea skating sports are integrated into the school systems. In Mex, (I cannot speak for other countries) the down side is that there is nothing for skaters when they turn adult age. If they are not picked up by a pro team, there is no more funding nor future for them. In one sense that induces incentive to get to opt level and onto a pro team. On the other hand, there are not that many pro teams or places in skating sports, it's a small field. By contrast, in the USA, there are no gov't programs that parallels this model, it's all run under the sports governing bodies, volunteers and scrounging for monies to support it. though a dribble of $ comes via USOc into rollersports, I am not sure the amounts or how it's doled out or spent - one can always review the orgs irs tax statements.

so, injecting $ into skate sports in the USA has proven difficult for some time, certainly nothing new. yet, there are creative ways to seek funding. but, with that one needs the market the sport as well. as a small niche sports it's not the job of the skaters to build the market, this level of campaign has to come from the manufactures side, and product promotion, in making the sport highly visible. Anyone ever see a skate ad on tv or see a product placement ad in the new paper or People magazine? the whole marketing side of skating lags in a big way.

The idea of skate programs in schools, community colleges, or university is a very valid idea. These are excellent places to cultivate the sport. We also taught skate classes through our local university- it's pretty easy to set up and they were actually happy to have us. the same can be done on grander scale, within school systems, community college, and universities. there are already successful pilot programs in place around the globe. so, no need to reinvent the wheel!
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Old July 25th, 2014, 12:29 PM   #75
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I'm not proposing skating on a bicycle track, although the apron ("below the blue line") is regularly skated on in Colorado Springs and perhaps elsewhere. BearingAll stated that his plan was "a mixed use facility for training/grooming young participants in cycling and- oh by the way, inline skating". Cycling is what people there want, so he very pragmatically plans to appeal to that interest, hopefully speaking their language and thus also get something for skaters, i.e., a skate track inside the velodrome, just as in Colorado Springs, Cooper City, and Indianapolis. So, to an extent, I do want to confuse people, make them believe I'm trying to help them, which I am, although my motivation is to help myself. That's marketing, for products, politics, and human physical attraction, and little is accomplished without it.

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Careful with the word "velodrome." A bike banked track, AKA: Velodrome, has a steeper bank to it. So you don't want to confuse people. We have a Velodrome in our state, skaters don't really skate on it, it's too sharply banked.
Good comments from shesk8, although they don't answer the question "how did countries....generate the political force". His comments also generally apply to Colombia.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 12:52 PM   #76
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Jim White, Shesk8 and others... do you folks see any tie-ins between inline and ice? Even though they require very different and apparently mutually exclusive facilities, the demographic we are trying to reach is the same. The civic 'powers that be' we need to convince are the same. Perhaps by throwing in together we could each help the other and in this way achieve more clout and visibility.


In the summer a local ice guy sets up a 6-lap track in our ballpark parking lot when its empty (which is almost all of the time) and we get out and put on miles. Why the heck can't we do this in huge mall parking lots or big corporate lots that sit empty so much of the time? Of course, details and liabilities need to be overcome and worked around... but the big slabs of pavement are already sitting there.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 01:11 PM   #77
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Plenty of tie-in; shesk8 knows better than I do, but for example, most of USA's ice olympians have also been inliners. And ice skaters many places do skate inlines; skaters do use parking lots. Actually, I think this is a good answer to people who complain about lack facilities which can only be used for skating.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #78
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Bill Begg recently had a track built in a New Zealand town with a population of just 50,000 people.

But, he works bloody hard to get these sort of wheels into motion.

He's had banked tracks built all over the world. Perhaps ask him for some advice.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 06:22 PM   #79
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I should have been more clear... I meant tie-in between facilities.

Our town, Cedar Rapids, Iowa used to be quite a hotbed for outdoor long track ice. Now we have a three aging masters holdouts and four kids trying to make a go of it.

In 2008 we had extremely bad flooding which made us remember some of our town is in an at-risk flood plain. A large section was cleared of housing and is standing idle as we figure out what to do. We plan on creating multi-purpose recreational facilities in the flood plain so that when it floods again there will be minimal losses to high value assets. Our leaders asked for inputs, and we suggested a track that could be used for skating in winter and inline/whatever in summer and how it could be very versatile. After a bit of a silent pause there came, in essence, "ah, yeah... right... so, any more ideas?"


I think Des Moines, Iowa would be a good location for a substantial skating facility. It is centrally located and a lot of the US is within driveable distance, right at intersection of I-80 and I-35. It has an international airport.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 07:03 PM   #80
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I know of no realistic basis for much of a tie-in between inline and ice speedskating facilities. Some individual skaters do both, but not many in the same year repeatedly. And the "powers-that-be" generally are uncooperative in the USA. I know of nowhere that there's significant positive relationship between inline and ice speedskating facilities.

Des Moines is a good location for inline speed. A leading team is based there. I think their leadership is also rink leadership, so indoor speed is well-served, facility-wise, and adding to that would be disruptive, especially for the rink business operation.

Generally, I expect that rink ownership would have little reason to support adding an outdoor speedskating facility, and I think it difficult to develop a business plan for adding an outdoor facility--a business plan that would show cost-effective benefits for a community as a whole.
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