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Inline Artistic Discussions about artistic skating on inline figure skates.

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Old May 21st, 2009, 05:31 PM   #1
firefly
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Default Ice and Inline at the Same Time????

Does anyone skate both? I know that Traonouez, Urquia, and Baturin have posted video of themselves on both. I was worried about adjusting the technique between them, but driving over an hour to practice is getting to be too much!! I will still take lessons/practice on inlines on the weekends, but I can not get up there during the week. I definitely want to keep on with the inline because I like it best. (Never really felt comfortable on ice.) And if I ever DO decide to compete it would be on inlines since the ice tests are ridiculous!!......
Right now I have the skatepark, but that closes in October. Since there are 5 (yes, 5!) ice rinks in town. (And one roller rink that doesn't want "figure skating" on the floor.) Wondering if I could train on ice during the week and inlines on the weekends?! Do you know of anyone who does this? (It must be possible since the WC skaters listed above can do it.) I think jkaplenk has written that he does both.....I am just leery of doing something stupid and splattering myself all over the ice (or wood or concrete as the case may be).
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 04:32 AM   #2
jkaplenk
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Smile Both

Hi,

Yes, I do both. I do ice freeskating and dance, do dance and figures on quads and freestyle on inlines, probably dance on inlines this coming year. The local speed time is trying to recruit me also since I have some pretty good speed and use to do speed outdoors.

The technique from ice, in my experience, translates directly to technique on inlines. I find that the ice training helps my inline skating and vice versa. There is not as much carryover in my experience between ice/inlines and quads because of the technical nature of the equipment. So you are in pretty good shape here.

The competition events for the Open are taken from both ice and quads, so anything you do on ice should directly carryover in competition.

Having competed and done both tests on ice and tested and competed under non-tests in rollers, I've come to the feeling that tests are important. They do restrict people but also makes competitions fairer. Tests are also good goals in their own rights. On ice some adults just do testing and never compete or only compete at Adult Nationals, but the testing gives incentives to keep moving.

Joe


Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly View Post
Does anyone skate both? I know that Traonouez, Urquia, and Baturin have posted video of themselves on both. I was worried about adjusting the technique between them, but driving over an hour to practice is getting to be too much!! I will still take lessons/practice on inlines on the weekends, but I can not get up there during the week. I definitely want to keep on with the inline because I like it best. (Never really felt comfortable on ice.) And if I ever DO decide to compete it would be on inlines since the ice tests are ridiculous!!......
Right now I have the skatepark, but that closes in October. Since there are 5 (yes, 5!) ice rinks in town. (And one roller rink that doesn't want "figure skating" on the floor.) Wondering if I could train on ice during the week and inlines on the weekends?! Do you know of anyone who does this? (It must be possible since the WC skaters listed above can do it.) I think jkaplenk has written that he does both.....I am just leery of doing something stupid and splattering myself all over the ice (or wood or concrete as the case may be).
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 03:19 PM   #3
firefly
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Default

Thanks Joe!

Yes, I do think I am going to try to use the ice rinks to practice during the week. (Did I say 5? We actually have 6 here!! Geeze!!)

Hopefully technique will transfer with me. Can't say for sure about dance (don't know enough about it), but brackets, counters, rockers etc. seem quite similar to ice.....Freestyle can be tricky....The are some differences in takeoff techniques. (Although, honestly, I admit they are based on common sense. I guess I will actually have to think before I jump.) For example, "good" ice skaters use their edges to help them into the air on takeoffs. Inline, (or quad), uses the power in the bent knees only. Look close at toe jumps, (especially doubles/triples), and you'll notice ice skaters keep a rather straight vaulting leg while inline/quad bend their vaulting leg a bit more....
Of course spinning is so different that there shouldn't be an issue.....

Yes, I understand why the test structure is enforced in ice...however...in my case, it would cause an unfair competition rather than a fair one. As you know, at Adult Nationals certain moves are allowed at certain levels. (I guess they are thinking of implementing something like this at Standard Ice Nationals where juvinille girls are now doing 2axels when their tests have single jumps. )...But back to my case. I would have to pass at least the intermediate level MITF to skate Championship Masters...(With my hips? Are you kidding??!!) And that level is, realistically, what I should be skating to be "fair." (You have seen my videos.)
I could probably only pass up to the Adult Gold MITF, (if that). At Gold Level, I'd be limited to axel, 2toe and 2 sal. I worked hard for my 2loop and 2flip/lutz. Not fair to me. These two doubles (toe and sal) are easy for me. Can do them with hands over my head. Not fair to them (my competition.) Any spin allowed? Let's see....How about stars into a deathdrop? (Because I can do it.) But then, I'd look like a jerk. Again, not fair to me and not fair to them. See what I mean??

Simply put, on ice I am being "penalized" for allowing my freestyle skills to develop over my "skating skills" (moves level). Not so on inlines. (At least not at this time.) Of course, it is "unfair" that on inline, (except at your competition, which is one of the great things about The Open), there are so few of us that a beginner would be forced to compete against the "rest of us" (ice level "seniors.") Since skaters over 13 have to skate WC regardless of ability. I agree that that too is "unfair."
So there you have it....No "perfect system"......um.....sounds like politics.
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Last edited by firefly; May 23rd, 2009 at 04:33 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 05:38 PM   #4
jkaplenk
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Smile Tests

I've gone through the testing structure and the testing requirements in ISI/ISIA, the testing structure and testing requirements in USFSA and the RSA test structure and lack of or minimal test requirements in USARS.

I've found that I like the ISI structure the best. You have certain elements you are required to do and restricted from doing higher level or other requirements. I think it levels the playing field quite well. When I first tested in USFSA it was rare that a skater at the Preliminary level would do an axel. Today double jumps are expected at the Preliminary level. This discourages some skaters, makes the test structure out of synch and encourages skaters to stay in one level for a long time instead of moving up.

The RSA test structure is good, but not very relevant and the few required RSA tests in USARS do not sync up with the actual competition level. The whole USARS competition structure is a patchwork of levels with holes and skaters left out. Age and skill levels are tied together and in dance the older skaters do the harder dances, so they're encouraged to skate at the younger, less skilled levels. I've seen lifelong skaters and competitors do the glide waltz in Regionals. This is the easiest dance in my opinion. This kills any chance a newer skater has ever doing well in an event

So at the Open we made sure that any skater could compete in any non-USARS category with age divisions if needed. The RSA structure is a progressive skill structure similar to ISI but there are no competitions that I'm aware of that use the RSA structure. So few people do the RSA tests.

In the long term though having a test structure with a well defined and coordinated and restricted competition structure can, I think, encourage skaters and the growth of the sport. It should give definitive goals and segment the skaters more closely based on talent. I also think that letting anyone skate any skill level doesn't encourage skill development as much which is where test requirements come in. It gives a skater a goal to work for besides competiting.

As far as artistic vs technical skills, we included artistic and technical only events to encourage skaters to work on these elements and give those skaters that are good in a particular category a chance to demonstrate their skills.

Joe

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly View Post
Thanks Joe!

Yes, I do think I am going to try to use the ice rinks to practice during the week. (Did I say 5? We actually have 6 here!! Geeze!!)

Hopefully technique will transfer with me. Can't say for sure about dance (don't know enough about it), but brackets, counters, rockers etc. seem quite similar to ice.....Freestyle can be tricky....The are some differences in takeoff techniques. (Although, honestly, I admit they are based on common sense. I guess I will actually have to think before I jump.) For example, "good" ice skaters use their edges to help them into the air on takeoffs. Inline, (or quad), uses the power in the bent knees only. Look close at toe jumps, (especially doubles/triples), and you'll notice ice skaters keep a rather straight vaulting leg while inline/quad bend their vaulting leg a bit more....
Of course spinning is so different that there shouldn't be an issue.....

Yes, I understand why the test structure is enforced in ice...however...in my case, it would cause an unfair competition rather than a fair one. As you know, at Adult Nationals certain moves are allowed at certain levels. (I guess they are thinking of implementing something like this at Standard Ice Nationals where juvinille girls are now doing 2axels when their tests have single jumps. )...But back to my case. I would have to pass at least the intermediate level MITF to skate Championship Masters...(With my hips? Are you kidding??!!) And that level is, realistically, what I should be skating to be "fair." (You have seen my videos.)
I could probably only pass up to the Adult Gold MITF, (if that). At Gold Level, I'd be limited to axel, 2toe and 2 sal. I worked hard for my 2loop and 2flip/lutz. Not fair to me. These two doubles (toe and sal) are easy for me. Can do them with hands over my head. Not fair to them (my competition.) Any spin allowed? Let's see....How about stars into a deathdrop? (Because I can do it.) But then, I'd look like a jerk. Again, not fair to me and not fair to them. See what I mean??

Simply put, on ice I am being "penalized" for allowing my freestyle skills to develop over my "skating skills" (moves level). Not so on inlines. (At least not at this time.) Of course, it is "unfair" that on inline, (except at your competition, which is one of the great things about The Open), there are so few of us that a beginner would be forced to compete against the "rest of us" (ice level "seniors.") Since skaters over 13 have to skate WC regardless of ability. I agree that that too is "unfair."
So there you have it....No "perfect system"......um.....sounds like politics.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #5
firefly
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Talking Fun, fun, fun

Yes!!! I love your idea for The Open because it incorporates the different catagories so people can compete where their strenghs lie, and, in my opinion, that makes for a much better competition!!! Ice did this type of thing; a fun competition with jumps in 2002, (but I don't know if it was just that one year or if they hold it every year and it just doesn't get TV coverage....) TOP JUMP. According to the info on the video, it was held in France in 2002. Check it out!!! Yaugudin is AWESOME!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2DH408Misc and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzglbV77ciM and especially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQ0aWWwA9g !!!! WOW!!
I'd LOVE to see something like this on inlines between Urquia and Traonouez!! Cool!!

Yes, I realize that jumping is only one aspect of a "complete" skater, but I DO think if they promoted this aspect of the sport. (Maybe even allowing backflips, etc.) And labeled it "extreme" skating.....more boys might be attracted to the sport...... (The skaterboarders at my skatepark just LOVE extreme stuff!!)

Also, poor old car died (again!) Love inline but, due to transportation and financial issues, can only use skatepark until the Fall then will be returning solely to ice for the winter. Can no longer make trip to roller rink. So....Hope you guys are right about the technique transferring.... Had wanted to buy Snow White 2's, but will have to change that to Gold Seal K picks. I do like inline better (always feel like I'm slipping off my takeoffs on ice). But there is simply no realistic way to practice on them where I live, (except for when the skatepark is open.) Kind of funny. The ice skaters write to me that they are "forced" onto inline to train when the ice rinks go down in the summer. I will be "forced" onto ice when the skatepark closes. Weird.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 03:02 AM   #6
jkaplenk
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Smile Transfer

Thanks. It was a collection of ideas including those that you submitted. The two original events are the Survivor Solo, which was your idea ;-} and the Survivor Team event, which is going to have a few changes for next year. More on that later.

I find things transfer quite well for me from ice to inlines. Whenever I do my inlines in the afternoon, I find my ice skating is better in the morning and when I do the ice in the morning the inlines are better in the evenings. I don't find it happens to the same extent for my quads.

Backflips could be allowed along with some more extreme skating to atract the younger crowd. But this might be difficult in roller rinks. The local rink has gouges in the floor just from skaters doing jam skating in the center area on proper toe stops, so the force of landing and missing on a backflip might be a problem.

Slalom is a good addition for the younger crowd. We need to get some experience with this.

I think there has to be more programs to build outdoor inline and hockey skate parks where skaters could do a lot of this type of skating. The skate parks around here are too crowded with equipment and only small open areas and would be dangerous for this kind of skating. This is where the roller, inline hockey, extreme skating, slalom and inline figure skating folks can get together and develop a program. The roller rink folks also have to give some support and realize it actual does drive business to them when more people skate, especially in the winter and just to find a safer surface and family crowd.

Ice skaters used to roller skate a lot more when ice was very limited or non-existent. I suspect that the reason ice championships are held in the fall and winter and roller skating championships are held in spring and summer was so skaters could do both. Maybe some long-time skaters could answer that. With ice skating being a year-around activity now it is rare, except in rural areas and some countries, for ice to be down in the summer.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly View Post
Yes!!! I love your idea for The Open because it incorporates the different catagories so people can compete where their strenghs lie, and, in my opinion, that makes for a much better competition!!! Ice did this type of thing; a fun competition with jumps in 2002, (but I don't know if it was just that one year or if they hold it every year and it just doesn't get TV coverage....) TOP JUMP. According to the info on the video, it was held in France in 2002. Check it out!!! Yaugudin is AWESOME!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2DH408Misc and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzglbV77ciM and especially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRQ0aWWwA9g !!!! WOW!!
I'd LOVE to see something like this on inlines between Urquia and Traonouez!! Cool!!

Yes, I realize that jumping is only one aspect of a "complete" skater, but I DO think if they promoted this aspect of the sport. (Maybe even allowing backflips, etc.) And labeled it "extreme" skating.....more boys might be attracted to the sport...... (The skaterboarders at my skatepark just LOVE extreme stuff!!)

Also, poor old car died (again!) Love inline but, due to transportation and financial issues, can only use skatepark until the Fall then will be returning solely to ice for the winter. Can no longer make trip to roller rink. So....Hope you guys are right about the technique transferring.... Had wanted to buy Snow White 2's, but will have to change that to Gold Seal K picks. I do like inline better (always feel like I'm slipping off my takeoffs on ice). But there is simply no realistic way to practice on them where I live, (except for when the skatepark is open.) Kind of funny. The ice skaters write to me that they are "forced" onto inline to train when the ice rinks go down in the summer. I will be "forced" onto ice when the skatepark closes. Weird.
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